Fly Boomer Posted June 13, 2022 Report Posted June 13, 2022 3 hours ago, T. Peterson said: with advanced technology could that goal not be attained? Sure could. You would probably need a new design and new tooling. Probably new workers who know the new construction trchniques (composite). Then you would have to get your suppliers to ship on credit instead of COD. And you might break even after building and selling thousands of airplanes. Quote
A64Pilot Posted June 13, 2022 Report Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) Everybody in Aviation was going to get rich with China, they were such fools, weren’t sophisticated businessmen like Westerners. Even Pratt & Whitney. Don’t worry we will buy Billions in engines for our Commercial helicopter fleet, just need a little software https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/united-technologies-subsidiary-pleads-guilty-criminal-charges-helping-china-develop-new from the article : “PWC took what it described internally as a ‘calculated risk,’ because it wanted to become the exclusive supplier for a civil helicopter market in China with projected revenues of up to two billion dollars” Even where I worked sold 24 to China, they had the Boss convinced that was just the first order, his business plan he took to the banks to borrow money on had two a month going to China. Guess what? The Chinese aren’t fools, the greedy Western businessmen however appear to be. Edited June 13, 2022 by A64Pilot Quote
GeeBee Posted June 13, 2022 Report Posted June 13, 2022 The classic China hustle is to buy a US company that is barely alive on the NASDAQ or other market. That way you have instant access to US capital markets. Then you issue new shares along with "pie in the sky" plans for expansion along with phony revenue numbers. Investment bankers like General Wesley Clark and others, they made some pretty good money pushing these stocks (they get paid no matter what). Some pretty savvy investors started going over to China and just sat outside these companies. They found there was no activity or activity that did not match the revenue claimed. Some even more savvy investors started shorting these stocks waiting for the fraud to be exposed. Where is the SEC you ask? They don't have offices in China, and in any event "Auditors" in China are a joke. Fortunately, the US SEC and the markets have clamped down on listing of China based stocks. Quote
M20F Posted June 14, 2022 Report Posted June 14, 2022 Well what Mooney really needs is a parachute <munches popcorn> 1 Quote
1980Mooney Posted June 14, 2022 Report Posted June 14, 2022 21 hours ago, T. Peterson said: It may be impossible, but I hope some technology or innovation will come along that can knock those hours in half. 9 hours ago, T. Peterson said: No doubt, but what if there was a way to cut those hours by 75%? I read an old thread where a former factory supervisor claimed it took a little over 1200 hours to build a J model in the 1970’s. Even if he was wrong by half, and with advanced technology could that goal not be attained? 5 hours ago, Fly Boomer said: Sure could. You would probably need a new design and new tooling. Probably new workers who know the new construction techniques (composite). Then you would have to get your suppliers to ship on credit instead of COD. And you might break even after building and selling thousands of airplanes. "New design, new tooling...new construction techniques (composite)"...I am glad you mentioned it. No amount of automation or tooling will make frame welding and riveting of thousands of pieces of aluminum cost competitive. Mooney could bring a "me too" Cirrus SR20/22, Columbia/Cessna TTX, Diamond DA52RG, Pipistrel Panthera, etc that is late to market. But they already demonstrated that they are not very good at that sort of thing with the Chino M10T composite debacle. Comments on page one of this topic note that the capital wasted on Chino was highlighted and discussed at Mooney Max. Since Mooney is not first to market and they do not have a competitive advantage in composites, that history is not a great calling card for raising more capital. Quote
T. Peterson Posted June 14, 2022 Report Posted June 14, 2022 9 hours ago, 1980Mooney said: "New design, new tooling...new construction techniques (composite)"...I am glad you mentioned it. No amount of automation or tooling will make frame welding and riveting of thousands of pieces of aluminum cost competitive. Mooney could bring a "me too" Cirrus SR20/22, Columbia/Cessna TTX, Diamond DA52RG, Pipistrel Panthera, etc that is late to market. But they already demonstrated that they are not very good at that sort of thing with the Chino M10T composite debacle. Comments on page one of this topic note that the capital wasted on Chino was highlighted and discussed at Mooney Max. Since Mooney is not first to market and they do not have a competitive advantage in composites, that history is not a great calling card for raising more capital. I still hold out hope for the gutsy innovator that can raise Mooney from the ashes. Somewhere out there is a can-do “herd quitter”, that will succeed, or at least that is my fervent hope. It might even be one of our Mooney Space guys. The man that says he can and the man that says he can’t are both right. Quote
A64Pilot Posted June 14, 2022 Report Posted June 14, 2022 (edited) I hope they restructure and become a parts manufacturer / supplier. They could if they have a Repair Station even refurbish aircraft for resale, they could even zero time airframes, but not sure that would be smart. I wonder if they have a Repair Station? Possibly do modifications to the existing fleet? The value of Mooney is that they have a Production Certificate, which would take Millions and years for a start up to acquire, I’ve always been surprised Cirrus pulled it off. Edited June 14, 2022 by A64Pilot Quote
kortopates Posted June 14, 2022 Report Posted June 14, 2022 Wasn't the original intention of the Chinese buyer in 2013 to move the factory to China where labor is dirt cheap?that was pure myth and never the intention. the truth is, they (Veronica) bought Mooney because it was a brand the Chinese people could trust because of its heritage and made in the USA - a recognized quality. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote
carusoam Posted June 15, 2022 Report Posted June 15, 2022 13 hours ago, T. Peterson said: I still hold out hope for the gutsy innovator that can raise Mooney from the ashes. Somewhere out there is a can-do “herd quitter”, that will succeed, or at least that is my fervent hope. It might even be one of our Mooney Space guys. The man that says he can and the man that says he can’t are both right. We have that guy… He is always burning the midnight oil… His MS name is @Jonny… He started out as a Mooney Customer… He liked the plane so much… he bought the company… (tag line supplied by Victor Kiam, the Remington razor guy) Go Mooney! Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
T. Peterson Posted June 15, 2022 Report Posted June 15, 2022 17 hours ago, carusoam said: We have that guy… He is always burning the midnight oil… His MS name is @Jonny… He started out as a Mooney Customer… He liked the plane so much… he bought the company… (tag line supplied by Victor Kiam, the Remington razor guy) Go Mooney! Best regards, -a- Outstanding! 1 Quote
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