Cowling mods for ease of access

[Prior owner]

And what about insurance? It’s not easy to get mobile A&P liability insurance these days- Most companies won’t write a policy anymore unless you have a fixed base at a field and will be doing at least 50% of your business at your fixed base. Insurance for a solo A&P can be anywhere from $5k-12k a year… something to consider.

[NM Mooney]

2 hours ago, PilotCoyote said:

And what about insurance? It’s not easy to get mobile A&P liability insurance these days- Most companies won’t write a policy anymore unless you have a fixed base at a field and will be doing at least 50% of your business at your fixed base. Insurance for a solo A&P can be anywhere from $5k-12k a year… something to consider.

Yeah, we were discussing that in earlier posts--but you're right that it's an issue.  

Bottom line for me is getting the A&P cert for convenience and savings re: approving my own work, and everything else is gravy.  

[Sabremech]

8 hours ago, NM Mooney said:

Yeah, we were discussing that in earlier posts--but you're right that it's an issue.  

Bottom line for me is getting the A&P cert for convenience and savings re: approving my own work, and everything else is gravy.  

Definitely get your A&P, but I can tell you it’s not gravy. It can be fun but it can also be the most stressful thing in your life. Don’t take it lightly. Be serious and methodical in all that you do. Pay attention to minute details. There’s a reason why the A&P field is dwindling, it’s not easy work. 
David

[N201MKTurbo]

You mentioned making a website. What for? If it is for advertising your services, don’t bother. Since I got my IA, I have had more requests for work than I have time. I work full time as an engineer. Lately, I work 8 hours or more at the day job, then go straight to the airport for a few hours. It is a lot of work for a side hustle. I try to limit what I do to inspecting other A&Ps work, but I will do work on some trusted friends planes.

Are you planning on giving up the law practice and just working on planes? I got my A&P and IA just to work on my stuff, but the world has other ideas.

[NM Mooney]

4 hours ago, Sabremech said:

Definitely get your A&P, but I can tell you it’s not gravy. It can be fun but it can also be the most stressful thing in your life. Don’t take it lightly. Be serious and methodical in all that you do. Pay attention to minute details. There’s a reason why the A&P field is dwindling, it’s not easy work. 
David

David,

Sorry for being unclear.  When I wrote "and the rest is gravy," I did not mean unimportant re: the substance of the work or its significance for the safety and satisfaction of others.  I was suggesting that any money I might earn beyond the (wonderful) savings from not paying someone else to work on my plane is gravy. 

To the extent your message reflects concern about my peace of mind, I really appreciate that.  

I recently registered a spec feature screenplay (that's making the rounds in Hollyweird) called "A Man of Cars" (I'm also a novelist - "Lion at the Door" and kids' book author - "Where the Octopus Lives").  In one scene, a Nevada state trooper pulls over an ancient pickup truck with a cab-over camper in the bed, and when he sees the old man's drivers license, the following exchange occurs: 

Trooper:  "This is almost expired."

Old man:  "Me too."

Moral of the story?  Life's too short not to sweat the details. 

Joel

 

Edited December 5, 2021 by NM Mooney

[NM Mooney]

2 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

You mentioned making a website. What for? If it is for advertising your services, don’t bother. Since I got my IA, I have had more requests for work than I have time. I work full time as an engineer. Lately, I work 8 hours or more at the day job, then go straight to the airport for a few hours. It is a lot of work for a side hustle. I try to limit what I do to inspecting other A&Ps work, but I will do work on some trusted friends planes.

Are you planning on giving up the law practice and just working on planes? I got my A&P and IA just to work on my stuff, but the world has other ideas.

Rich,

Well, its good to hear that A&Ps are in demand.  Lawyering can be satisfying but that varies so much across practice areas and even from one case to another, and then there is (in my view) the general degradation of ethics across the profession... but all of that is a much longer discussion.  

Let me put it this way.  If I could figure out a way to make a living doing A&P and IA work--either alone or with a like-minded partner or two--I'd probably do it.  Even steady part-time or occasional work for my remaining years would be satisfying, I think. 

As for the website, my advice is not to underestimate the value of even a good passive website--if not for your own purposes, then for your customers.  

My DIY-enabler Creative Spridgets is a different animal, of course, because of the need for online instructions.  But Squarespace commercial sites like mine are under $200 per year, and include multiple, highly secure payment options (credit cards, PayPal, Apple Pay, etc.), generate data useful for bookkeeping, have analytics you can manipulate with a few clicks, user-friendly and secure contact forms, etc.--and of course you could list your services, have customer testimonials and gallery of their planes (see my 'customer cars' page), display credentials, etc.   These things take a matter of minutes with the user-friendly interface (I don't write code).  (And, no, I am not affiliated with Squarespace.)

Let's say that someone places an order--which could be for A&P work in your example--then changes his/her mind.  One click and the website refunds their money to payment source and sends an email (that you can format, add a logo if you want, etc) telling them this has occurred.  Pretty neat.  Also, you can have free (or not) digital downloads, like the plans I have for welding up supercharger brackets on my 'purchase' page.  In your case, you might have info sheets or whatever available.  I dunno, might be worth it for you. 

Joel

[N201MKTurbo]

14 minutes ago, NM Mooney said:

Rich,

Well, its good to hear that A&Ps are in demand.  Lawyering can be satisfying but that varies so much across practice areas and even from one case to another, and then there is (in my view) the general degradation of ethics across the profession... but all of that is a much longer discussion.  

Let me put it this way.  If I could figure out a way to make a living doing A&P and IA work--either alone or with a like-minded partner or two--I'd probably do it.  Even steady part-time or occasional work for my remaining years would be satisfying, I think. 

As for the website, my advice is not to underestimate the value of even a good passive website--if not for your own purposes, then for your customers.  

My DIY-enabler Creative Spridgets is a different animal, of course, because of the need for online instructions.  But Squarespace commercial sites like mine are under $200 per year, and include multiple, highly secure payment options (credit cards, PayPal, Apple Pay, etc.), generate data useful for bookkeeping, have analytics you can manipulate with a few clicks, user-friendly and secure contact forms, etc.--and of course you could list your services, have customer testimonials and gallery of their planes (see my 'customer cars' page), display credentials, etc.   These things take a matter of minutes with the user-friendly interface (I don't write code).  (And, no, I am not affiliated with Squarespace.)

Let's say that someone places an order--which could be for A&P work in your example--then changes his/her mind.  One click and the website refunds their money to payment source and sends an email (that you can format, add a logo if you want, etc) telling them this has occurred.  Pretty neat.  Also, you can have free (or not) digital downloads, like the plans I have for welding up supercharger brackets on my 'purchase' page.  In your case, you might have info sheets or whatever available.  I dunno, might be worth it for you. 

Joel

Good luck, I hope it all works out for you.

[Prior owner]

12 hours ago, NM Mooney said:

Yeah, we were discussing that in earlier posts--but you're right that it's an issue.  

Bottom line for me is getting the A&P cert for convenience and savings re: approving my own work, and everything else is gravy.  

There are Community College programs that go for two years. Mine was 3:30pm to 9:00pm Mon-Friday. $3800 total for 2 years of full time tuition, plus books, and then fees for the A&P Practical Exams.  I worked a 40 hour job that started at 6:00am that made it possible to attend school in the evenings. No life for two years, but a great experience, and a great deal… there are quite a few Community College A&P  programs out there. Some are better than others.

 

Also, be sure to plan for a way to maintain your currency- within the preceding 24 months, you must have worked 6 months full-time (40 hrs a week) as an A&P…that means if you are solo that you are booked solid each day, M-F, or you will have to work for a shop full-time, either hands-on or supervising.

As far as rates, from what I have seen, most A&P’s are making between $25 and $35 an hour working for a shop, depending upon experience and the type of shop…. Mobile A&P’s make more, perhaps $50-65 an hour. Most people don’t want to pay more than that, as the usual reason that they are paying you is because they want to avoid the shop rates $110-$130 an hr, and are willing to roll the dice regarding the quality of work they might get at $50-65 an hour. IA’s cut their own deals for 337’s and Annual Inspections. There’s an IA in my vicinity who does annual inspections  for $200… so the real CB’s out there aren’t going to pay me $500-$800 or more for an owner assisted annual! This is my opinion based upon my local and my limited experience…. It’s an interesting landscape for an A&P days. Finding your own shop space to lease or buy is practically impossible in some areas. Tough if you’re in one of them, and you don’t want to move!

I enjoy the work, however, and so I have no regrets. Good luck in your journey!

[NM Mooney]

2 minutes ago, PilotCoyote said:

There are Community College programs that go for two years. Mine was 3:30pm to 9:00pm Mon-Friday. $3800 total for 2 years of full time tuition, plus books, and then fees for the A&P Practical Exams.  I worked a 40 hour job that started at 6:00am that made it possible to attend school in the evenings. No life for two years, but a great experience, and a great deal… there are quite a few Community College A&P  programs out there. Some are better than others.

 

Also, be sure to plan for a way to maintain your currency- within the preceding 24 months, you must have worked 6 months full-time (40 hrs a week) as an A&P…that means if you are solo that you are booked solid each day, M-F, or you will have to work for a shop full-time, either hands-on or supervising.

As far as rates, from what I have seen, most A&P’s are making between $25 and $35 an hour working for a shop, depending upon experience and the type of shop…. Mobile A&P’s make more, perhaps $50-65 an hour. Most people don’t want to pay more than that, as the usual reason that they are paying you is because they want to avoid the shop rates $110-$130 an hr, and are willing to roll the dice regarding the quality of work they might get at $50-65 an hour. IA’s cut their own deals for 337’s and Annual Inspections. There’s an IA in my vicinity who does annual inspections  for $200… so the real CB’s out there aren’t going to pay me $500-$800 or more for an owner assisted annual! This is my opinion based upon my local and my limited experience…. It’s an interesting landscape for an A&P days. Finding your own shop space to lease or buy is practically impossible in some areas. Tough if you’re in one of them, and you don’t want to move!

I enjoy the work, however, and so I have no regrets. Good luck in your journey!

Thanks for this detailed info and your encouragement.   

As for CA community college rates, I went to Mesa Community College in San Diego before transferring to SDSU (back when it was the flagship of the CSU system) and recall paying virtually nothing for tuition for my AA degree.   In addition to great flying weather, you're enjoying another benefit of living in CA.

As for maintaining currency, I have a two-part clarification question:

First, my read of the FAA-approved CNM program in ABQ suggests that once I complete the program, I am immediately eligible for the FAA licensure exam.  When I pass (assuming no Joe Pesci 'six times is a charm' outcome), I can sign-off on repairs I do while getting my runway queen airworthy.  Is that correct or am I misunderstanding something? 

Second, are you saying that, following initial licensure, I must spend at least one 6-month period working full-time at some point during each subsequent 2-year period to be eligible to renew my A&P license?   If so, I would think that wouldn't be gosh-awful difficult around here, as there are several airfields hereabouts and I assume that I could work on building a book of repeat customers sufficient to do that or offer supplemental labor (albeit at a wage rather than as an entrepreneur) for existing shops. 

[EricJ]

26 minutes ago, NM Mooney said:

Thanks for this detailed info and your encouragement.   

As for CA community college rates, I went to Mesa Community College in San Diego before transferring to SDSU (back when it was the flagship of the CSU system) and recall paying virtually nothing for tuition for my AA degree.   In addition to great flying weather, you're enjoying another benefit of living in CA.

As for maintaining currency, I have a two-part clarification question:

First, my read of the FAA-approved CNM program in ABQ suggests that once I complete the program, I am immediately eligible for the FAA licensure exam.  When I pass (assuming no Joe Pesci 'six times is a charm' outcome), I can sign-off on repairs I do while getting my runway queen airworthy.  Is that correct or am I misunderstanding something? 

That's correct.   You will be eligible to test with the certificates from the school, and once you pass the tests you will be as certificated an A&P as any other A&P and authorized to sign off anything an A&P can sign off, including work you do on your own airplane.

26 minutes ago, NM Mooney said:

Second, are you saying that, following initial licensure, I must spend at least one 6-month period working full-time at some point during each subsequent 2-year period to be eligible to renew my A&P license?   If so, I would think that wouldn't be gosh-awful difficult around here, as there are several airfields hereabouts and I assume that I could work on building a book of repeat customers sufficient to do that or offer supplemental labor (albeit at a wage rather than as an entrepreneur) for existing shops. 

CFR 65.83 has the requirements, and there is no requirement to work full time that I'm aware of.  If you have served as the mechanic for your airplane for six months of the previous 24, you meet the requirements.   Initially you will fall under 65.83(a) by passing your tests.

[Hank]

1 hour ago, PilotCoyote said:

As far as rates, from what I have seen, most A&P’s are making between $25 and $35 an hour working for a shop, depending upon experience and the type of shop…. Mobile A&P’s make more, perhaps $50-65 an hour. Most people don’t want to pay more than that, as the usual reason that they are paying you is because they want to avoid the shop rates $110-$130 an hr, and are willing to roll the dice regarding the quality of work they might get at $50-65 an hour. IA’s cut their own deals for 337’s and Annual Inspections. There’s an IA in my vicinity who does annual inspections  for $200… so the real CB’s out there aren’t going to pay me $500-$800 or more for an owner assisted annual! This is my opinion based upon my local and my limited experience…. It’s an interesting landscape for an A&P days.

I used to pay $850 for a traveling IA to do a 2-1/2 day owner assisted annual in my hangar. He checked ADs and brought paperwork and logbook stickers the last day (Fri - Sun). Then he retired, and I hate taking my plane somewhere and dropping it off! The annual was a good way for me to see everything, check on how things look, and discuss with the IA "do we need to do something about XXXX or is it okay?" 

[NM Mooney]

8 minutes ago, EricJ said:

That's correct.   You will be eligible to test with the certificates from the school, and once you pass the tests you will be as certificated an A&P as any other A&P and authorized to sign off anything an A&P can sign off, including work you do on your own airplane.

CFR 65.83 has the requirements, and there is no requirement to work full time that I'm aware of.  If you have served as the mechanic for your airplane for six months of the previous 24, you meet the requirements.   Initially you will fall under 65.83(a) by passing your tests.

Eric, 

Thanks for this.  I will pore over the CFR (to give myself a rendered legal opinion), but greatly appreciate the quick reference so I don't have to hunt that section down. 

Well, assuming you're right, it's hard to imagine I wouldn't net 6 months of work on the powerplant and airframe within each 2-year period.  I am getting increasingly excited about this plane, and the prospect of spending time working on it. 

My first trip outside local airspace will likely be to see my 91-year-old dad in Alpine, TX, which looks like it has a decent airport.  Interesting facts: I've mentioned my Dad's elder brother, who flew a PBY Catalina in WWII's Pacific Theater.  But Dad, who was too young to serve in WWII (volunteered for Korea) wrote the operator's manual for the Powerplant on the Navy's first nuclear sub. 

Joel

Edited December 5, 2021 by NM Mooney

[NM Mooney]

4 minutes ago, Hank said:

I used to pay $850 for a traveling IA to do a 2-1/2 day owner assisted annual in my hangar. He checked ADs and brought paperwork and logbook stickers the last day (Fri - Sun). Then he retired, and I hate taking my plane somewhere and dropping it off! The annual was a good way for me to see everything, check on how things look, and discuss with the IA "do we need to do something about XXXX or is it okay?" 

That would be my dream gig.  Fly to hang out with friendly Mooney owners, save them some money, and lend them some reassurance about their planes.  So what if I broke even on gas, etc?  Not a bad way to spend one's time!

[Prior owner]

1 hour ago, EricJ said:

CFR 65.83 has the requirements, and there is no requirement to work full time that I'm aware of.  If you have served as the mechanic for your airplane for six months of the previous 24, you meet the requirements.   Initially you will fall under 65.83(a) by passing your tests.

Our local FSDO told my A&P friend that this was fine, provided his aircraft was part of a group LLC…and not solely for his own pleasure.  I thought that was an interesting line to draw. But FSDO’s are like belly buttons- they are all different. I’m sure there’s an administrative board decision out there that clarifies the AP six month currency requirement. I have always understood “active” to mean “full time”, but I’ve been wrong before…!

[EricJ]

Just now, PilotCoyote said:

Our local FSDO told my A&P friend that this was fine, provided his aircraft was part of a group LLC…and not solely for his own pleasure.  I thought that was an interesting line to draw. But FSDO’s are like belly buttons- they are all different. I’m sure there’s an administrative board decision out there that clarifies the AP six month currency requirement. I have always understood “active” to mean “full time”, but I’ve been wrong before…!

I think more than half the A&Ps out there would have to stop practicing if that were true.   I've never heard it that way before.

[NM Mooney]

14 CFR § 65.83 - Recent experience requirements:

"A certificated mechanic may not exercise the privileges of his certificate and rating unless, within the preceding 24 months - 

(a) The Administrator has found that he is able to do that work; or 

(b) He has, for at least 6 months - 

(1) Served as a mechanic under his certificate and rating; 

(2) Technically supervised other mechanics; 

(3) Supervised, in an executive capacity, the maintenance or alteration of aircraft; or 

(4) Been engaged in any combination of paragraph (b) (1), (2), or (3) of this section."

***

With the proviso that I am not herein offering a rendered legal opinion to anyone reading this post, but merely making general observations for our discussion and leisure purposes, my reading of the section is as follows--beginning with some basic canons of construction. 

First - any statute or regulation must be read as a coherent whole. 

Second - courts default to a plain language reading unless that would produce an absurd or unjust result.

Third - courts defer to admin agencies where their expertise in interpreting and applying a highly technical reg is appropriate/needed--only one possibility here that matters for our discussion. 

Applying those canons:

Note the use of 'or' in two places.  The first instance, between (a) and (b), means the Administrator could waive the requirements in (b).  

The second instance is what we care about.  Its placement means that any of 1-4 is sufficient; the conjunctive 'and' would mean all would be needed.

Applying the canons as I ordinarily would, paragraph (b)(1) contains no hourly requirement at all by itself or by reference to the other provisions. 

That said, I'll fire up Westlaw when I get a chance and see if there are any FAA admin decisions or courts being asked to weigh in on an appeal (if allowed) on how the meaning of 'served as a mechanic' has been interpreted by the Administrator or a hearing officer (I sat as a hearing officer for the local environment department for > 10 years). 

In the meantime, here are a few opinions skirting this issue that I found on the FAA website.  They seem to be focused on the substance rather than duration of qualifying experience, in ways that I don't think resolve the issue.  That said, again a plain language reading of the reg seems to impose no specific hourly requirement.  

Joel

Carpenter_2012_Legal_Interpretation.pdf DaSilva-CommuteAir_2015_Legal_Interpretation.pdf Pohl_2008_Legal_Interpretation.pdf

Edited December 5, 2021 by NM Mooney

[NM Mooney]

Another related word. 

In my experience as a municipal defense counsel and hearing officer (I have presided over licensure suspension proceedings under the Air Quality Act - e.g., emissions testing facilities), the way this sort of thing would probably come up is where someone gets a license, then basically does no work for an extended period of time.  Then, let's say the license-holder does a job, the aircraft owner is dissatisfied, gets injured, or causes damage attributable to the work (or someone claimed that it was, anyway), and the FAA gets notified and is asked to review the license or does that unprompted.

The thing is, barring that scenario, it could well be that this question has never been addressed in a formal opinion. 

But another basic principle of law in general is that the legislature or admin agency: (i) knows what it's doing; and (ii) choses language deliberately.  So, applying that principle here, if the FAA had wanted to impose a minimum hourly requirement, it would have done so.  In my experience, that's an argument that a hearing officer or, say, a U.S. District Judge is going to accept absent settled common law--or an agency decision or advisory letter--to the contrary. 

Hope that makes sense. 

Joel

Edited December 5, 2021 by NM Mooney

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Sabremech said:

Definitely get your A&P, but I can tell you it’s not gravy. It can be fun but it can also be the most stressful thing in your life. Don’t take it lightly. Be serious and methodical in all that you do. Pay attention to minute details. There’s a reason why the A&P field is dwindling, it’s not easy work. 
David

During Covid I’ve hired a number of maintainers from the airline world.  They are finding GA maintenance more challenging that the airline world.  Several have gone back now that the airlines are restarting.

Clarence

[Guest]

5 hours ago, EricJ said:

That's correct.   You will be eligible to test with the certificates from the school, and once you pass the tests you will be as certificated an A&P as any other A&P and authorized to sign off anything an A&P can sign off, including work you do on your own airplane.

When does the apprenticeship happen?  In Canada it’s two years of college followed by 30 month ina shop before being  able to write the final exam.

Clarence

[EricJ]

52 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

When does the apprenticeship happen?  In Canada it’s two years of college followed by 30 month ina shop before being  able to write the final exam.

Clarence

We don't have healthcare here, either. 

[Prior owner]

It appears that I was a bit confused- my AP friend had walked into the FSDO after having been out of AP school for 3 years, wanting to become an IA…. If you have held an AP certificate for 3 years, but the last 2 years you must have been “actively engaged” as a mechanic, which the FSDO interpreted to mean “full time” mechanic. Which actually makes a lot of sense to me, as I really wouldn’t want IA’s wandering around the airport who only have held an AP without actually using it extensively for at least a couple of years…

§ 65.91 Inspection authorization.

(a) An application for an inspection authorization is made on a form and in a manner prescribed by the Administrator. 

(b) An applicant who meets the requirements of this section is entitled to an inspection authorization. 

(c) To be eligible for an inspection authorization, an applicant must - 

(1) Hold a currently effective mechanic certificate with both an airframe rating and a powerplant  rating, each of which is currently effective and has been in effect for a total of at least 3 years;

(2) Have been actively engaged, for at least the 2-year period before the date he applies, in maintaining aircraft certificated and maintained in accordance with this chapter; 

(3) Have a fixed base of operations at which he may be located in person or by telephone during a normal working week but it need not be the place where he will exercise his inspection authority; 

(4) Have available to him the equipment, facilities, and inspection data necessary to properly inspect airframes, powerplants, propellers, or any related part or appliance; and 

(5) Pass a written test on his ability to inspect according to safety standards for returning aircraft to service after  major repairs and major alterations and annual and progressive inspections performed under part 43 of this chapter. 

An applicant who fails the test prescribed in paragraph (c)(5) of this section may not apply for retesting until at least 90 days after the date he failed the test.

[Doc. No. 1179, 27 FR 7973, Aug. 10, 1962, as amended by Amdt. 65-5, 31 FR 3337, Mar. 3, 1966; Amdt. 65-22, 42 FR 46279, Sept. 15, 1977; Amdt. 65-30, 50 FR 15700, Apr. 19, 1985]

 

AND- Here is where Mike Busch laments the fact that AP’s have no real recurrency requirements-

Mike Busch article on differences between Pilot & AP currency requirements.

 

lastly, I apologize for contributing  massive thread shift!

[NM Mooney]

6 minutes ago, PilotCoyote said:

 

lastly, I apologize for contributing  massive thread shift!

Not at all.  Frankly, I appreciate the exercise because it confirmed a way to own the plane that I am much more likely to be able to afford. 

[EricJ]

12 hours ago, PilotCoyote said:

It appears that I was a bit confused- my AP friend had walked into the FSDO after having been out of AP school for 3 years, wanting to become an IA…. If you have held an AP certificate for 3 years, but the last 2 years you must have been “actively engaged” as a mechanic, which the FSDO interpreted to mean “full time” mechanic. Which actually makes a lot of sense to me, as I really wouldn’t want IA’s wandering around the airport who only have held an AP without actually using it extensively for at least a couple of years…

§ 65.91 Inspection authorization.

(a) An application for an inspection authorization is made on a form and in a manner prescribed by the Administrator. 

(b) An applicant who meets the requirements of this section is entitled to an inspection authorization. 

(c) To be eligible for an inspection authorization, an applicant must - 

(1) Hold a currently effective mechanic certificate with both an airframe rating and a powerplant  rating, each of which is currently effective and has been in effect for a total of at least 3 years;

(2) Have been actively engaged, for at least the 2-year period before the date he applies, in maintaining aircraft certificated and maintained in accordance with this chapter; 

(3) Have a fixed base of operations at which he may be located in person or by telephone during a normal working week but it need not be the place where he will exercise his inspection authority; 

(4) Have available to him the equipment, facilities, and inspection data necessary to properly inspect airframes, powerplants, propellers, or any related part or appliance; and 

(5) Pass a written test on his ability to inspect according to safety standards for returning aircraft to service after  major repairs and major alterations and annual and progressive inspections performed under part 43 of this chapter. 

An applicant who fails the test prescribed in paragraph (c)(5) of this section may not apply for retesting until at least 90 days after the date he failed the test.

[Doc. No. 1179, 27 FR 7973, Aug. 10, 1962, as amended by Amdt. 65-5, 31 FR 3337, Mar. 3, 1966; Amdt. 65-22, 42 FR 46279, Sept. 15, 1977; Amdt. 65-30, 50 FR 15700, Apr. 19, 1985]

 

AND- Here is where Mike Busch laments the fact that AP’s have no real recurrency requirements-

Mike Busch article on differences between Pilot & AP currency requirements.

 

lastly, I apologize for contributing  massive thread shift!

Thanks for the update!   It's a relevant digression, for sure.   There's still no stated requirement for full-time employment, and we have example proofs of IAs who have been full-time something else and never a full-time A&P.   

 

[N201MKTurbo]

When I applied for my A&P I did it on experience, not education. The FAA inspector really didn’t want to approve it. When he asked about my experience I showed him the letters of recommendations. He then asked to see my pay stubs. I told him straight up that I never worked full time as a mechanic, I just worked on planes nights and weekends for over 20 years. He said they couldn’t dispute the letters of recommendation without going to court. He thought he would trip me up on the oral, he couldn’t find a single subject that I couldn’t speak extensively about. After 4 hours of quizzing me he said he was hungry and wanted to go to lunch. He authorized me to take the tests. I got 96, 96 and 94 on the three writtens I could have finished the practical in one day, but the examiner insisted it was a two day test, so the second day was only an hour.

When I did my IA, I showed an activity log of what I had done in the last three years. He was happy with that.

[NM Mooney]

51 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

When I applied for my A&P I did it on experience, not education. The FAA inspector really didn’t want to approve it. When he asked about my experience I showed him the letters of recommendations. He then asked to see my pay stubs. I told him straight up that I never worked full time as a mechanic, I just worked on planes nights and weekends for over 20 years. He said they couldn’t dispute the letters of recommendation without going to court. He thought he would trip me up on the oral, he couldn’t find a single subject that I couldn’t speak extensively about. After 4 hours of quizzing me he said he was hungry and wanted to go to lunch. He authorized me to take the tests. I got 96, 96 and 94 on the three writtens I could have finished the practical in one day, but the examiner insisted it was a two day test, so the second day was only an hour.

When I did my IA, I showed an activity log of what I had done in the last three years. He was happy with that.

I love it... kill 'em with competence.  Here's the signature line on my Creative Spridgets email: 

“Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself.” —Sir Arthur Conan Doyle