Sort of Mooney Crash

[201er]

Not really a Mooney but sortof:

http://news.yahoo.com/least-3-dead-small-plane-crash-nj-highway-165557705.html?bouchon=501,ny

Shame. Good thing no motorists were hurt or it would make it look like planes fall out of the sky and kill innocent bystanders.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Gosh today has been terrible

[MARZ]

One in Texas last night - rest in peace.

http://www.chron.com/news/article/5-killed-in-plane-crash-in-central-Texas-2413956.php

 

Looks like a stout head wind.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N3590T/history/20111219/2340Z/KJAN/KCNW/tracklog

 

 

[DonMuncy]

And another one in Denton, TX this morning. Not a Mooney; C172.

[PTK]

And yet another in Colorado yesterday. Thankfully not a crash and no deaths.

http://www.gazette.com/articles/longmont-130426-mall-plane.html

 

[KSMooniac]

It is that time of year where get-there-itis rears it's ugly head, and coupled with winter weather the results can be tragic.

That TBM crash sure smells like icing, but I've got to wonder how/why it might have gotten iced-up since it has FIKI capability.

I'm hoping to fly south on Friday, but the forecast is getting cloudier... I sure don't want to drive 6 hours, but it beats being discussed here on Saturday.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: KSMooniac

It is that time of year where get-there-itis rears it's ugly head, and coupled with winter weather the results can be tragic.

That TBM crash sure smells like icing, but I've got to wonder how/why it might have gotten iced-up since it has FIKI capability.

I'm hoping to fly south on Friday, but the forecast is getting cloudier... I sure don't want to drive 6 hours, but it beats being discussed here on Saturday.

[jelswick]

In this one and one of the others I noticed the FlightAware tracks getting slower and slower before the accidents.  Very sad and I think KS Mooniac's nailed it.  We (particularly me) were very frustrated driving to my parents home for Thanksgiving under beautiful skies because of uncertain weather predicted for the day coming home.  It turned out very flyable for the return day, so a little frustration for that drive back to, but I know the older pilots we sold aircraft for always said if you want to retire from flying eventually, fly conservatively.  It at least keeps my wife's confidence up in flying with me and she constantly quizzes me on "would you fly today?" and expects the why part to be answered.  Better to be down here wishing we were up there than up there wishing we were down here.  Fly safe and happy holidays all!

[John Pleisse]

Quote: Parker_Woodruff

 

[BorealOne]

Nasty crash near Ottawa last week also - Cessna Cardinal on final appears to have descended below MDA and hit a hydro pole at night, with low vis and 100' ceilings. Definitely varsity IMC. Ice may also have been factor. 2 pilots didn't make retirement. RIP. 

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Ottawa+pilot+doomed+flight+qualified+difficult+conditions/5867805/story.html

 

 

[N513ZM]

Quote: Parker_Woodruff

I wonder if he had a survivable case but poor technique And tried to keep climbing when he should have just gone below the icing layer. 

They are capable planes but they'll stall just like anything else. 

Fly/drive safe. 

[N513ZM]

Quote: N513ZM

I wonder if he had a survivable case but poor technique And tried to keep climbing when he should have just gone below the icing layer. 

They are capable planes but they'll stall just like anything else. 

Fly/drive safe. 

[Cabanaboy]

Why is the thread called "sort" of Mooney crash? No Mooney and was involved and it was NOT sort of crash. Was a turbo prop and 5 people were killed including children. Any crash is bad and no sort about it.

[fantom]

The TBM has a Mooney development history, to the point of the M standing for Mooney, so it's sorta a Mooney.

That's one horrific crash, and icing is very suspect. Very, very sad.

[Cabanaboy]

I had no idea about the development history on the TBM, really bad news for all aviation. I wonder why I read some people said the plane was decending in pieces...from ABC news site:

Rockaway Township resident Chris Covello said he saw the plane spin out of control from the car dealership where he works in Morristown, near the site of the crash. "It was like the plane was doing tricks or something, twirling and flipping," he said. "It started going straight down. I thought any second they were going to pull up. But then the wing came off and they went straight down."

[carqwik]

Any plane can reach a point where flutter exists (as a function of TAS IIRC) and parts will begin to break off under the load...LOC incident at that altitude and I'm sure the speed builds very quickly.  All speculation of course for now but it's worth noting that if a TBM700 can come unglued due to ice at a turbo-Mooney altitude....you know the rest.

[DaV8or]

Ah yes, the personal airliner. One of my pet peevs about GA behavior (and we all seem to have them), pack the plane full of friends and family and deliver them to said destination right on time. No matter what. A lot of time and money is spent on that plane and if you can't demonstrate it's utility, then you look kind of silly, right? Weather looks a little iffy, but hey, weather men are often wrong, right? We're so close now... I know it's bad, but it should get better, right? It's really closing in, but I'll be OK 'cause I have glass panels and all kinds of gear on board to get me through. My passengers are terrified and asking questions now, but they'll be fine once we're all sipping hot coco around the fire at the lodge.

[PTK]

[PTK]

Quote: allsmiles

I agree 100% with your frustration and anger. It is magnified 100x on my mind as well. Being careful not to second guess the poor fellow pilot, I can't help but feel for the innocent passengers his own family and his own wife and kids. He led these innocent trusting, very trusting, bystanders to their death. Horrible, just horrific.

He took a perfectly capable airplane put his family in it and killed them. Reminds me of Kennedy who also took his wife and her sister and dumped them in the Atlantic. Was there any time spent on some weather planning? Did the option to take a commercial flight even cross his mind?  Or was he the invincible hero who just launches into the unknown thinking the "system" will save me and make me look like the hero, the legend I am in my own mind!!  Maybe a severe case of "getthereitis" or afraid of looking weak and not a "real pilot" to his family. I don't know. What I do know is that, sadly and in a tragic fashion, the weakest link in the chain of decision making events, that of the pilot, failed once again. It all can be summed up as ignorance. And here we are talking about it, again!

I'm in no position to quickly blame or second guess anyone. I simply ask the questions that beg to be asked and realistically answered. It is my sincere hope that we, meaning collectively in GA, can do better than this!

[AndyFromCB]

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/klns/ZNY-MDT-Dec-20-2011-1500Z.mp3

At 6:49 into the tape a CRJ is reporting ice so severe his hot wing cannot clear it.  I can see how even a TBM, not exactly what I would call your run of the mill GA airplane, cannot handle it. I've had a pleasure of a few flights in a TBM (as a passenger) over time and it is more or less an all weather traveling machine, much more so than even a FIKI turbo mooney, think King Air,  but if you're getting severe pipers from jets but by then he was already in the air...

Right at 3:45 into the tape sounds like he is trying to declare but then he just cuts out. So sad, but truth be told, many of us here, if we had a TBM, might make a go decision in similar circumstances and then it's more or less luck rather than skill...

Sounds like he kept on climbing, got ice under the wing, stalled and could not recover and then even the 262knot VNE of a TBM couldn't help...RIP...

[Parker_Woodruff]

This is just poor technique. No reason he couldn't have flown, as from what I've read there wasn't ice below 13,000 or so. Even still, it may have just been an issue of not lowering AoA on account of flight conditions. 

[fantom]

Quote: Parker_Woodruff

This is just poor technique. No reason he couldn't have flown, as from what I've read there wasn't ice below 13,000 or so. Even still, it may have just been an issue of not lowering AoA on account of flight conditions. 

[201er]

Where are you guys getting these interpretations of ice from? I've seen nothing that suggests IMC or that this occurred enroute. Sounds like it happened 1-5 minutes after takeoff. 287 is close to TEB so it's more of a question of what part of 287 rather than where. My first thought about crash on highway was failed off airport landing. But the fact he was raining down in pieces definitely adds a twist to things...

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: 201er

Where are you guys getting these interpretations of ice from? I've seen nothing that suggests IMC or that this occurred enroute. Sounds like it happened 1-5 minutes after takeoff. 287 is close to TEB so it's more of a question of what part of 287 rather than where. My first thought about crash on highway was failed off airport landing. But the fact he was raining down in pieces definitely adds a twist to things...

[eldeano]

Normally I would say this is a lot of speculation, but given the events of the day yesterday and the time of year, this is probably a good conversation to have.  Last year we had a little bit of the same thing, and I believe one of those was a Mooney in Colorado Springs.

I assume the TBM had Boots which can form a layer of ice on the outside of the pulsing area.  Interestingly enough at work we have two Cessna Caravans, one TKS and one with boots.  I think pretty much everyone prefers the boots because you don't have to worry about minimum fluid levels and it clears the ice quicker and more consistantly across the wing.

One interesting point with the boots, the FAA used to recommend waiting until you have about a half an inch of ice before deployment(to prevent an outside layer as mentioned above), now they recommend deployment at the first sign of ice. However, Cessna at their winter flying meeting still recommends waiting for a layer to build.

Anyway, I think it comes down to, quoting Tom Collins, "some weather just isn't meant to be flown through no matter what type of aircraft you are flying".