Garmin G-5 vs UAvionics AV-30-C

[RobertGary1]

On 7/8/2021 at 8:44 PM, Flyman2456 said:

With only one GI275, I want a stby AI and I need the vacuum for the hsi. So keeping the vacuum for right now and will transition to electric eventually. 

Even with two 275’s you may want to keep the vacuum attitude for diverse backup. I did that and was happy I did when a software bug took out both my 275’s at the same time turns out if you feed bad input to two kids they both get sick 

[ShuRugal]

Ordered my AV-30 the day it got approved. I love it

The AoA function configuration is too coarse for my M20C, there's apparently a software update it the works to address that.

I'm not interested in giving Garmin my business, so $500 cheaper to buy from their newest competitor is a win-win in my book.

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[John Mininger]

I have dual G5’s, so I may be bias.

I like the square screen of the G5. And I really like the vertical air speed ribbon and altitude ribbon on the G5. I also like the vertical VSI and the altitude bug.

So, if the price is similar between the AV30 and the G5, I would choose the G5. Plus, if you would ever choose to upgrade your STec 30 to a GFC500, you would already have the G5 to drive it.

If I remember correctly, you already have a separate AOA with a vane. So the complaints that some of us have been hearing about the AOA function in the AV20 and AV30, wouldn’t be a factor for you.

If, however, anyone had a legacy attitude based autopilot that they wanted to keep, like a Century or a King 150 or 200, I think a GI275 is a no brainer.

[ruapilot2]

My M20E project is still a work in progress but here is the before and "mostly after".  I went with the twin G5s because of the integrated AHRS and back up battery systems.  I went with an overall Garmin architecture so it made sense to keep it all on the same page.  Eventually (STC god willing) I would like to do the GFC500 AP and G3X at which point I will use one the G5s as a standby and sell the other one.

 

[DCarlton]

On 11/29/2021 at 6:41 PM, laytonl said:

 

 

I have an AV-30C as an attitude indicator in my Citabria and it works great. Installation is minimal;  I did it in a day and I’m slow.  A lot of my install time was removing and re-installing the front seat.  Attached video shows the unit in action. Lee

Realize this is an older post, but I noticed that there's about a 10 deg difference between the AI heading and DG.  Wondering if it's lag or DG alignment....

[LSX280]

I replaced my vacuum DI with an AV30C, locked to DI function as per the manual. Had severe drift issues on the DI initially and did not trust it.

Installed the AVMAG magnetometer to fix the drift issue, but this did not help much. Decided to start the setup from scratch and follow the installation manual religiously - this fixed all problems and now my DI is rock solid! I cannot stress enough how important it is to follow the manual exactly and to as high precision as possible. I think I lot of installers neglect this part and it is probably to blame for a lot of the heading drift issues people see. The order one executes the setup is also crucial. I now wonder if I even needed the AVMAG, but to be honest, it performs like a slaved system now so I am pretty happy. (I know it is not certified as a slaved system, only aiding, but I have not had to adjust the DI for the last 4 flights).

I fly it IFR with no issues and feel totally comfortable relying on it. I do not have a GPS hooked up to it, but I do have the TailbeaconX paired with it, so I get GPS ground speed and track. The track seems pretty solid also.

I used to fly double G5's all the time and yes, they are great - but I really love my AV30C and do prefer the layout. The only think I would love to see added is glideslope, but even without that, I am seriously considering adding another AV30C to replace my vacuum AI.

Only two things have stopped me so far: I want to remove the legacy analog VSI, but the AV30C is not certified as primary VSI function (even though I find it much better than my analog VSI and never use it anymore, relying only on the AV30C VSI during en-route as well as approaches) - the other being that it does not have glideslope indication...

Therefore the GI-275 is still a candidate, but I would much rather have the AV30C if Uavionics can at least promise future firmware upgrades to bring glideslope and primary VSI to their unit.

Mooney M20E Super 21 (serial 805)

 

[LSX280]

I just learned about the new AV-HSI that they have planned - it brings Arinc429 connectivity, enabling Glideslope amongst other features! I really like the direction these guys are heading into - looks like I am gonna order another AV30C as soon as my next paycheck drops...

[laytonl]

I don’t believe a VSI is a required instrument. Too lazy to look and see though!  Lee

[Hank]

10 minutes ago, laytonl said:

I don’t believe a VSI is a required instrument. Too lazy to look and see though!  Lee

Not even required for IFR flight, per my Owners Manual. 

But I've been flying with an IVSI for 17 years, don't want to fly with a VSI or without either one. That's part of my beef with the glass screens, the VSI disappears whenever the programmer thinks you don't need it . . . .

[Shiroyuki]

11 hours ago, LSX280 said:

I just learned about the new AV-HSI that they have planned - it brings Arinc429 connectivity, enabling Glideslope amongst other features! I really like the direction these guys are heading into - looks like I am gonna order another AV30C as soon as my next paycheck drops...

One thing that baffles me about an-30 is for a 3 inch instrument they decided to cheap out on the display screen. In my old airplane i had an av30 installed to control Tailbeaconx and a g5 as HSI. The different in the screen’s smoothness is huge. I swear av30 has a 30fps screen instead of a 60fps screen which is wildly used in today’s computer and smartphones. This 30fps just makes the instrument feels laggy and unresponsive.

i also find that the unit won’t erect to 0 degree after a bank, it will always sits at 3 degree or so in the opposite direction after i return the plane back to level for a while. I wouldn’t trust this instrument as the pure source of attitude in IFR flights.

[PT20J]

10 hours ago, Shiroyuki said:

i also find that the unit won’t erect to 0 degree after a bank, it will always sits at 3 degree or so in the opposite direction after i return the plane back to level for a while. I wouldn’t trust this instrument as the pure source of attitude in IFR flights.

I know that on the AV-20 if it doesn't sit at 0 deg roll when the airplane is level, you have to (according to uAvionics tech support) rotate it in the panel. AV-30 might be the same. I just made the holes in the instrument panel larger so that I could rotate the instrument and then tighten the screws.

[PeteMc]

1 hour ago, PT20J said:

I know that on the AV-20 if it doesn't sit at 0 deg roll when the airplane is level

This is just a installation calibration?  Or the AV-20 doesn't show level when it really is level????

 

[ShuRugal]

I know that on the AV-20 if it doesn't sit at 0 deg roll when the airplane is level, you have to (according to uAvionics tech support) rotate it in the panel. AV-30 might be the same. I just made the holes in the instrument panel larger so that I could rotate the instrument and then tighten the screws.

The AV-30 has an installation options page which allows you to precisely adjust the roll and pitch zeroes.

The latest software update appears to have addressed the tendency to show a turn in the opposite direction when leveling out from a long sustained turn. I believe this was caused by a routine which mimics that same behavior in a vacuum gyro being a bit too aggressive, but nobody from Avidyne has confirmed that for me.

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[DCarlton]

Any recent opinions on this comparison if installed in the AI position?  I'm ready to pull the trigger.  Leaning towards the AV30; it fits existing panel better.  Thanks.

[takair]

We have an AV-30 in a C140 I share.  It has occasionally shown some sluggish behaviour, wallowing and precession….not coming level after extended maneuvers.  I thin uAvionix would tell us to check the vibration levels….they are high according to the instrument…but we’ve replace engine and instrument shocks…only so much we can do.  .It is a nice unit, the company seems solid, generally responsive, and innovative, but not sure I’m ready for it to be my only ADI.  (140 was certified IFR with just a TC…so this theoretically replaces that…but no backup….we don’t fly it IFR). I guess I would consider your flying….VFR or IFR and what backups you have.  

[DCarlton]

4 minutes ago, takair said:

We have an AV-30 in a C140 I share.  It has occasionally shown some sluggish behaviour, wallowing and precession….not coming level after extended maneuvers.  I thin uAvionix would tell us to check the vibration levels….they are high according to the instrument…but we’ve replace engine and instrument shocks…only so much we can do.  .It is a nice unit, the company seems solid, generally responsive, and innovative, but not sure I’m ready for it to be my only ADI.  (140 was certified IFR with just a TC…so this theoretically replaces that…but no backup….we don’t fly it IFR). I guess I would consider your flying….VFR or IFR and what backups you have.  

I've already pulled my rock solid AI gyro.  I'd hate to take a step backwards if the performance of the newer digital instruments doesn't match or exceed vacuum driven instruments.  I do have an electro-pneumatic turn coordinator.  

[takair]

1 minute ago, DCarlton said:

I've already pulled my rock solid AI gyro.  I'd hate to take a step backwards if the performance of the newer digital instruments doesn't match or exceed vacuum driven instruments.  

In the Mooney I’m still flying vacuum gyro with Brittain AFCS, but I have RC Allen digital back up AI and even turn coordinator.  I like dissimilar sources of attitude…it is how part 25 aircraft generally achieve their required design assurance levels.  My RC Allen is older…but my old gyro is more precise than this one.  I’m about to install an RC Allen mini in a friends 182 as an Aspen backup, I am optimistic that it will be quite good…. The Sandia was not behaving.  I’ve felt quite comfortable behind Garmin products in friends planes in IFR…but they all had backup systems as well.  

[takair]

23 minutes ago, DCarlton said:

I've already pulled my rock solid AI gyro.  I'd hate to take a step backwards if the performance of the newer digital instruments doesn't match or exceed vacuum driven instruments.  I do have an electro-pneumatic turn coordinator.  

PM sent

[DCarlton]

1 hour ago, takair said:

In the Mooney I’m still flying vacuum gyro with Brittain AFCS, but I have RC Allen digital back up AI and even turn coordinator.  I like dissimilar sources of attitude…it is how part 25 aircraft generally achieve their required design assurance levels.  My RC Allen is older…but my old gyro is more precise than this one.  I’m about to install an RC Allen mini in a friends 182 as an Aspen backup, I am optimistic that it will be quite good…. The Sandia was not behaving.  I’ve felt quite comfortable behind Garmin products in friends planes in IFR…but they all had backup systems as well.  

Got a pic of your panel ?  

[Ragsf15e]

23 minutes ago, DCarlton said:

Got a pic of your panel ?  

I know it’s more $$, but a gi-275 fits the panel as well and has lots more good reviews.

[takair]

26 minutes ago, DCarlton said:

Got a pic of your panel ?  

Truly old school, but I kind of enjoy it while I contemplate a future upgrade…plane or panel.

[DCarlton]

29 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

I know it’s more $$, but a gi-275 fits the panel as well and has lots more good reviews.

I should look at it again.  If it gets too complicated though, I’ll end up putting my perfectly functional vacuum AI back in.  I could probably make a quick decision based on the thickness and weight of the various installation and operating manuals.  My patience for extended maintenance is growing thin especially if it’s self inflicted.  

[DCarlton]

37 minutes ago, takair said:

Truly old school, but I kind of enjoy it while I contemplate a future upgrade…plane or panel.

Do you happen to know if the vent line on your vacuum gage is connected to a filtered inlet line on the back of your gyro with a T or is it just open to the atmosphere without a hose?  

[takair]

6 hours ago, DCarlton said:

Do you happen to know if the vent line on your vacuum gage is connected to a filtered inlet line on the back of your gyro with a T or is it just open to the atmosphere without a hose?  

I don’t fully remember if I have two lines.  If I did, the second would go run to a T near the filter.  I’ve seen it and done it both ways.  More often than not, it is open.  From a filtered air perspective, it is not needed, since there is no flow through the gauge.  There might be a very slight difference in accuracy between the two….especially if the filter is allowed to get dirty or fail open.  That said, I don’t believe it is a practical difference that would be noticed between annual inspections of the filter……only gross negligence of it…and then there are other practical problems….like dirt in gyros.  Degradation of the vacuum pump and atmospherics make it too variable to note such a trend to begin with.

[DCarlton]

4 hours ago, takair said:

I don’t fully remember if I have two lines.  If I did, the second would go run to a T near the filter.  I’ve seen it and done it both ways.  More often than not, it is open.  From a filtered air perspective, it is not needed, since there is no flow through the gauge.  There might be a very slight difference in accuracy between the two….especially if the filter is allowed to get dirty or fail open.  That said, I don’t believe it is a practical difference that would be noticed between annual inspections of the filter……only gross negligence of it…and then there are other practical problems….like dirt in gyros.  Degradation of the vacuum pump and atmospherics make it too variable to note such a trend to begin with.

That reinforces my thinking.  I'd be really curious to know if there is a perceivable difference if the T were right at the gyro inlet line vs open to the atmosphere with no hose.