Ideas for selling M20F

[Towner]

Looking for ideas and pricing for selling a 1967 Mooney M20F. The plane hasn't been flown in 10 years due to medical. Was flying regularly when parked. I kept it (hangered) hoping medical rules would change in my favor, but no luck. Bought a LSA so at least I'm flying again.

Anyway, airframe has about 3600 hours, but engine is about 1750 SMOH. Older panel. Paint and interior in pretty good shape.

Do I sell it as is or get it flying to sell it? What is it worth each way? Just looking for ideas. Would love to keep it, but can't fly it, so it's gonna have to go...

[N201MKTurbo]

Is it in annual? 
 

Is it ADS-B compliant? 
 

If you got those two things done, somebody will buy it. Without those two, you will have to give it away.

I’ll give you 10K for it as is.

[rbridges]

I agree.  Get it airworthy.  It's already got a runout engine, so the buyer will be expecting that.  Any additional flying time with that engine would be considered extra.

[Towner]

Thanks for the opinions. No, it is not in annual and doesn't have ads-b. I'll probably get the annual done, but am wondering if it would be better to allow a new owner to put in the ads-b system they want. Talking to a couple of shops about the annual now. While not as cheap as a normal annual, it doesn't appear that it will be a ridiculousl price either as long as no major issues are found. While I know that sitting that long isn't good, I think there will be no major issues on the airframe due to hangering and dry climate. For several years, I'd occasionally run up the engine for awhile, getting all Temps up. When the battery finally quit, that stopped.

[N201MKTurbo]

1 hour ago, Towner said:

Thanks for the opinions. No, it is not in annual and doesn't have ads-b. I'll probably get the annual done, but am wondering if it would be better to allow a new owner to put in the ads-b system they want. Talking to a couple of shops about the annual now. While not as cheap as a normal annual, it doesn't appear that it will be a ridiculousl price either as long as no major issues are found. While I know that sitting that long isn't good, I think there will be no major issues on the airframe due to hangering and dry climate. For several years, I'd occasionally run up the engine for awhile, getting all Temps up. When the battery finally quit, that stopped.

Where are you?

[Towner]

Hanford, Ca

[gsxrpilot]

If you want to sell it as a flying airworthy airplane then it needs to be flown. If I were you, I'd get it through an annual so it's legal to fly. Then find someone who can fly it and give them the keys. Make sure they're listed on the insurance and ask them to put 50 hours on it as quickly as they can. All they have to pay for is gas. Change the oil twice during that 50 hours. If it's still flying, good compressions, and clean oil after 50 hours, that will go along way to convincing a buyer that it will continue to fly for X number of hours. 

If the Cam starts spalling, metal in the oil, leaky cylinders, etc. You sell it as is with a run out engine.

Or you just run it through annual, and sell it as having a run out engine.

The difference between these two options is at least $20K and probably more like $30K.

[Ragsf15e]

Nothing wrong with spending a little on a tailbeacon or wingtip ADSB either.  Might not get the money back but might help move it.

[carusoam]

Have no fear...

People are looking to buy projects...  let’s invite @Gubni who is currently looking at an unknown aircraft...

Here, he can ask the actual owner some questions...

 

What happens with planes that have sat without flying....

Certain things have a tendency to stop working properly...

There are many potential buyers that are unable to deal with so many unknowns...

 

MS has a few people that look forward to buying planes with unknowns...  they are called mechanics...  and have the skills to put a bunch of hours on the plane and get it back in the air...

Essentially, if you can get the plane flying in annual... it can be sold at retail pricing...   if it is listed as a barn find.... the wholesale pricing takes over...

 

Some planes make their last flight to see Alan...  others make a stop at Alan’s hangar before flying off again... 

 

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[RobertGary1]

3 hours ago, Towner said:

Hanford, Ca

I grew up in Lemoore in the 70’s. Looks a bit different now. 

[gsxrpilot]

If I ever am in this position, as I've said before, I will make a set of keys for someone to keep flying my airplane even if they only pay for the gas they burn. 

I'm holding all of you responsible to hold me to this pledge. I'll thank you later when my plane sells for it's full value rather than slightly better than scrap.

[amillet]

18 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

If I ever am in this position, as I've said before, I will make a set of keys for someone to keep flying my airplane even if they only pay for the gas they burn. 

I'm holding all of you responsible to hold me to this pledge. I'll thank you later when my plane sells for it's full value rather than slightly better than scrap.

Paul, @gsxrpilotplease move to the Pacific Northwest so I have a chance to hold you to your pledge 

[Towner]

Thanks again for all the input. I never expected it to sit that long. I kept hearing promises of new medical rules that would allow me to fly it. While basic med is a great improvement, it's not gonna work for me. Then, I was begging the wife to get her ppl. She would go back and forth on her willingness to learn, but finally said "no". What I expected to be a short term down time for the airplane kept getting longer and longer. I'm not one of those guys who buys an airplane and allows it to sit when everything says I can fly! Was putting about 85 or 90 hours a year on the plane before parking it. I was heartbroken. Finally gave up and went the light sport route. I bought it right before Xmas and have put over 65 hours on it so far.

I certainly appreciate all the info about selling "as is" vs. Flying. I think I agree that a Flying airplane is the way to go. Now, the work begins! Please feel free to keep giving ideas and suggestions. Not Flying for 10 years was bad on not only the plane, but my knowledge of what's going on in the airplane world.

[Towner]

Thanks again for all the input. I never expected it to sit that long. I kept hearing promises of new medical rules that would allow me to fly it. While basic med is a great improvement, it's not gonna work for me. Then, I was begging the wife to get her ppl. She would go back and forth on her willingness to learn, but finally said "no". What I expected to be a short term down time for the airplane kept getting longer and longer. I'm not one of those guys who buys an airplane and allows it to sit when everything says I can fly! Was putting about 85 or 90 hours a year on the plane before parking it. I was heartbroken. Finally gave up and went the light sport route. I bought it right before Xmas and have put over 65 hours on it so far.

I certainly appreciate all the info about selling "as is" vs. Flying. I think I agree that a Flying airplane is the way to go. Now, the work begins! Please feel free to keep giving ideas and suggestions. Not Flying for 10 years was bad on not only the plane, but my knowledge of what's going on in the airplane world.

[carusoam]

Just now, Towner said:

Thanks again for all the input. I never expected it to sit that long. I kept hearing promises of new medical rules that would allow me to fly it. While basic med is a great improvement, it's not gonna work for me. Then, I was begging the wife to get her ppl. She would go back and forth on her willingness to learn, but finally said "no". What I expected to be a short term down time for the airplane kept getting longer and longer. I'm not one of those guys who buys an airplane and allows it to sit when everything says I can fly! Was putting about 85 or 90 hours a year on the plane before parking it. I was heartbroken. Finally gave up and went the light sport route. I bought it right before Xmas and have put over 65 hours on it so far.

I certainly appreciate all the info about selling "as is" vs. Flying. I think I agree that a Flying airplane is the way to go. Now, the work begins! Please feel free to keep giving ideas and suggestions. Not Flying for 10 years was bad on not only the plane, but my knowledge of what's going on in the airplane world.

Hang out here...

The daily conversations are what keeps me in the fray...

No need to apologize... fighting to keep a medical can be a full time job...

Some have gone from class III to a class III Si...   special issuance...

Others have gone basic med...

The whole pandemic thing has added an extra layer...  especially if your health has pre-existing conditions...

Best regards,

-a-

[Towner]

RobertGary

Lemoore and the area has changed some, but it’s really still the same. Hanford is growing pretty fast recently, but Lemoore is moving at a slower pace. We do have a bullet train being built right in Hanford. I spoke with one of the large contractors for the train at the airport today. He commutes in his Mooney!

[RobertGary1]

1 hour ago, Towner said:

RobertGary

Lemoore and the area has changed some, but it’s really still the same. Hanford is growing pretty fast recently, but Lemoore is moving at a slower pace. We do have a bullet train being built right in Hanford. I spoke with one of the large contractors for the train at the airport today. He commutes in his Mooney!

I used to work at the trophy shop across from civic park. Part of my job was to help watch the owners elderly dad who would sneak off to the bar in the middle of the day. I was about 10 at the time. I think we grew up faster then. They rarely actually paid me but they bought me fancy lunches. Those were good times. Used to buy cheaper silver trophy parts and I’d have to sit there and dye them in gold paint. 

Edited April 9, 2021 by RobertGary1

[Gubni]

I am actively looking to buy a Mooney. I'm okay with a project as long as the engine is good. To me that means I can fly it and work on it also. The one I found has sat since 2011. Search n9554m on here for more details. Everyone on here is telling me the engine will have to be replaced so I would say the same for you. How's your finances? If you can afford it put and engine in it and get it in annual. I think you will get more out of it that way, but to say I'm an amateur is an understatement, lol.

[Steve P]

I am currently in the market for a Mooney....Give me a shout and we can talk. 970 301 3934 Steve

[Towner]

I think it would have been a great idea if I would have had someone else fly it instead of letting it sit, but it's to late to make up for that. I think I was probably a little selfish anyway and didn't want anyone else flying my plane! Oh well...

As far as putting a new engine in it, I don't think that it would be cost effective. I'd be interested in others opinions on that though. I am only a 15 minute drive to Lycon!

Finances aren't much of a problem. If I found out putting an engine in it would be cost effective to sell it, it wouldn't be a problem. I just don't want to throw money away though. If I was still able to fly, I'm sure the current engine would have been well over TBO and I would have probably have had it rebuilt for me by now!

10 years ago, I planned on eventually upgrading the avionics a little too. Well, they didn't have Foreflight when I quit flying (or at least I wasn't aware of it). Geez, it's awesome! It's like cheating compared to paper charts, manual weight and balance, handheld GPS system, etc. I don't know how much I'd be willing to spend on panel upgrades now. Flying now with others who have some pretty high tech panels, they still have an iPad with Foreflight turned on while flying! A lot has changed in 10 years!

[Ragsf15e]

Yeah, if you spend $40k r&r & OHing the engine, you’ll sell for $20-30k more.  
 

I know lots of people will buy with a runout engine because they want to control the OH process and make sure it’s done to their specifications and by their shop.

You probably need to get the rest of the airplane in annual and flying.  Corroded spar or sup leaky gas tanks might make it tougher.

[67 m20F chump]

I lost my medical for a year.  I feel for you.

[Towner]

Fuel bladders hopefully prevented any fuel leaks. They were kept full during the down time. I really don't expect any corrosion issues either. Of course, you never know. My biggest concern is the engine. I realize there will be a some other areas that will have to be dealt with during annual because it has sat so long, but I really do feel confident in the airframe. For a high time engine, it was running great b4 letting it sit. I agree with earlier comments that I should have let others fly it instead of sitting. Talking to a couple of mechanics around here, they've actually had pretty good luck with engines that have sat for several years. Maybe that will work out too.