av8or180 Posted March 15, 2021 Report Posted March 15, 2021 This area is where the spar goes through the left side fuselage where the rear tank filler is. Unfortunately I do not have much experience with wood. I have reviewed AC34-13-1 and Mooney wood repair manual. Wondering if anyone has repaired something like this without having to remove the fuselage. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks 1 Quote
1964-M20E Posted March 15, 2021 Report Posted March 15, 2021 I'm not a mechanic but this does not look good. Check with Gary he had a wood wing he was looking to get rid of. @Gary Bymers 1 1 Quote
takair Posted March 15, 2021 Report Posted March 15, 2021 Is it possible that was a veneer laminate for aesthetic or protective reasons? Looks like the spar is coated (gray) and there was an incomplete bond between the damaged wood and what looks like the main spar. All that said, I’ve never actually seen the real thing... would pull the interior panel and see what’s behind there...it may end... 1 Quote
carusoam Posted March 15, 2021 Report Posted March 15, 2021 Welcome aboard av8. Is this something you own? the main wing spar is essentially the heart of the whole machine. When it comes to degraded parts of a spar... the degraded part gets completely removed before getting replaced with a proper repair... separating a wing from a fuselage may make the cost of the repair more realistic... Because it is the heart... the repair has to be good, not just look good... Finding a good wood wing repair man is getting tougher with time... Not impossible... research things like what EAA has to offer... Definetly speak with Gary above about what he has... Stand by, we have plenty of wood wing owners around here... Aluminum spars can have the same challenges... PP thoughts only, not a mechanic... Good luck and best regards, -a- 1 Quote
Ron McBride Posted March 15, 2021 Report Posted March 15, 2021 That looks bad. I am not an A&P, but I retired from the termite repair industry on homes. I must remove all of the damage. Damage will continue to grow if not replaced. If you push in the damaged areas you will find more damage. I would not fly that plane anywhere without proper repairs. Disclaimer: The value of my advice is equal or less than your payment to me for my opinions. good luck, hope you get this repaired. 1 Quote
mike_elliott Posted March 15, 2021 Report Posted March 15, 2021 At least Mooney has one of those parts in stock... 1 1 Quote
kerry Posted March 15, 2021 Report Posted March 15, 2021 I don't think that spar is repairable. Fortunately Mooney has a lifetime warranty on all wood wings they sold. lol 1 Quote
takair Posted March 15, 2021 Report Posted March 15, 2021 On 3/15/2021 at 5:07 PM, kerry said: I don't think that spar is repairable. Fortunately Mooney has a lifetime warranty on all wood wings they sold. lol Expand Do I recall correctly that you have a wood wing aircraft? Does yours have exposed wood at the top of the spar like the OP? It seems odd to have exposed wood bonded to what looks like a layer of gray paint, doesn’t it? 1 Quote
EricJ Posted March 15, 2021 Report Posted March 15, 2021 There are people left around who work on wood wings and airframes, and I'd seek out one of those people to get an opinion or at least guidance on best practices. Wooden spars/ribs/everything are patched and repaired all the time, but it's best to get some experienced eyes and hands on it. If there's a local EAA chapter or place that works on older airplanes or restores airplanes, those will likely be good places to start to find somebody. FWIW, this is the sort of work they're looking for, so it should be practical to find somebody. In some ways wood is easier to repair than metal. 1 1 Quote
mike20papa Posted March 16, 2021 Report Posted March 16, 2021 (edited) You would need to remove the wing from the fuselage to really get an exact assessment of the damage. Looks like with this kind of water intrusion that corrosion to the steel fuselage components in this area is very likely. My condolences. Any thing is repairable, but recouping the expense vs. replacing with serviceable components will be the difficult call. And yes, there is a plywood cover to the spar in this area, but the damage looks to go deeper than this area. Remember, the outer parts of the spar (furthest from the neutral axis_) carry the greatest stress. Any repairs would require scarf joining and re-accomplishing the spar webbing. Not a task for the uninitiated! Also .. not that it isn't too late .. but there is suppose to be a continuous piece of tape that laps on the wing and up on the fuselage side (concealed by the alumn. wing fillet) that seals water out of the fuselage. There are a lot of high performance sealing tapes out there now, compared to back in the day. Edited March 16, 2021 by mike20papa 1 1 Quote
av8or180 Posted March 16, 2021 Author Report Posted March 16, 2021 I would like to thank everyone for their advice. It looks like we may have a job ahead of us. 1 Quote
Deaton Posted May 1, 2021 Report Posted May 1, 2021 (edited) I see everyone is talking about the wood wings. I have 2 of them, if anyone is interested in them let me know, maybe we can come to an arrangement/deal/offer/trade. They're both off of M20As. I have a 1956 M20 and two wings/fuselage for a 1958-59 M20A. Here is my contact info just incase anyone is in need. dennis.deaton1@gmail.com Edited May 1, 2021 by Deaton Quote
carusoam Posted May 1, 2021 Report Posted May 1, 2021 Welcome aboard Deaton. You may want to leave a method of contact... This situation comes up infrequently... but when it does... you could be the best thing since sliced bread... If you included an email address in your data profile... that works pretty well... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
Raymond J1 Posted May 1, 2021 Report Posted May 1, 2021 (edited) It seems complicated on your side of the Atlantic. In France there are many wooden planes and this is a well-mastered technology. Offer an internship to my friend Didier, he will rebuild your wing to new, he built a MJ 100 (Spitfire scale 1 wooden). https://www.planecheck.com/eu/index.asp?ent=da&id=46345&cor=y Edited May 1, 2021 by Raymond J terms 2 Quote
aviatoreb Posted May 1, 2021 Report Posted May 1, 2021 On 5/1/2021 at 4:27 AM, Raymond J said: It seems complicated on your side of the Atlantic. In France there are many wooden planes and this is a well-mastered technology. Offer an internship to my friend Didier, he will rebuild your wing to new, he built a MJ 100 (Spitfire scale 1 wooden). https://www.planecheck.com/eu/index.asp?ent=da&id=46345&cor=y Expand That looks great! I see it has 270hrs but the panel has that 75 year old faded, scratched gray look. He must have deliberately antiqued it. I would think if a craftsmen who is a master with wood spars to precise size and load specs is hard to find in the aircraft industry, that they still exist in the sailing industry. I bet a yacht repair company can build any necessary wooden spar, I am not sure if that would be legal but I am sure they could do the craft of it. Quote
EricJ Posted May 1, 2021 Report Posted May 1, 2021 On 5/1/2021 at 4:27 AM, Raymond J said: It seems complicated on your side of the Atlantic. In France there are many wooden planes and this is a well-mastered technology. Offer an internship to my friend Didier, he will rebuild your wing to new, he built a MJ 100 (Spitfire scale 1 wooden). https://www.planecheck.com/eu/index.asp?ent=da&id=46345&cor=y Expand That's interesting. There's a guy here who did something very similar. I saw this airplane at a fly-in. It's very cool. Quote
Raymond J1 Posted May 2, 2021 Report Posted May 2, 2021 (edited) On 5/1/2021 at 12:49 PM, aviatoreb said: Ça a l'air génial! Je vois qu'il a 270 heures, mais le panneau a cet aspect gris délavé et rayé vieux de 75 ans. Il doit l'avoir délibérément vieilli. Je penserais que si un artisan qui est un maître avec des longerons en bois à la taille et aux spécifications de charge précises est difficile à trouver dans l'industrie aéronautique, ils existent toujours dans l'industrie de la voile. Je parie qu'une entreprise de réparation de yachts peut construire n'importe quel espar en bois nécessaire, je ne suis pas sûr que ce soit légal, mais je suis sûr qu'elle pourrait en faire le métier. Expand In France, the company "Robin" still manufactures these wooden devices (which allows payloads from 700 to 800 Kg for a 200 hp), they have even developed a new wood-carbon spar for the two-seater CAP 10 (derived from Piel CP 301) which is widely used in aerobatic training. So there is a lot of maintenance workshop with the specialty "wood". Here the Robin DR 400-180 (Lycoming 180 cv) : Edited May 2, 2021 by Raymond J 1 Quote
aviatoreb Posted May 2, 2021 Report Posted May 2, 2021 On 5/2/2021 at 5:34 AM, Raymond J said: In France, the company "Robin" still manufactures these wooden devices (which allows payloads from 700 to 800 Kg for a 200 hp), they have even developed a new wood-carbon spar for the two-seater CAP 10 (derived from Piel CP 301) which is widely used in aerobatic training. So there is a lot of maintenance workshop with the specialty "wood". Expand I agree wood is a beautiful and still competitive material even in this modern era. Especially when combined with carbon it becomes amazing. I mean after all, I am flying around with an MT four blade prop which is just that. Its a shame that it seems to be mostly a lost trade in the USA for aircraft, but as I mentioned it lives on I believe in the yacht industry. Quote
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