seeking shoulder harness solution

[TravelVeteran]

1965 mooney m20c with these current lap belts.  installed alpha aviation mounts today as well. now just need the final piece, the shoulder harness itself.  looking for a way to buy a slide on shoulder harness (slides onto the current buckle -- see 3rd pic below) using my current lap belt.  buying a 3 point harness is $400-500 so trying to see what my options might be. 





 



this is what i dont have yet:

[carusoam]

What you are showing is typical of a four belt harness with two belts coming directly over the shoulders, from above... I haven’t seen in a Mooney before... I did see them in a bonanza around here though... the lap belt is more centered for this style... which would change the length of one of the belts you have already...

The three belt shoulder strap has a buckle with a round post to accept the third strap... different hardware altogether...

Mixing and matching different belts and parts of a system is a whole other challenge...

In the end, you want to check how old the belts are... if they are original to the plane...

+1 for doing the right thing... but, getting it done the right way is going to be important...

You might want to see what @Alan Fox has for hardware... re-webbing existing hardware is cost effective...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[TravelVeteran]

my previous aircraft (cessna) had a single shoulder harness that the lap buckle slid into.  i dont see any reason why that couldnt work in a mooney.  just need to find the right buckle/shoulder harness to fit?

 

[RLCarter]

Not sure if you’ll find something that will work with the old lap belts, the shoulder strap needs cross and mount on the opposite side fairly low to keep you in. I bit the bullet a got new seatbelts with the shoulder harness, if you have a J-bar and opt for new belts get the push button type and not the buckles the lift, 

[carusoam]

From the weekend discussion on seat belts...

They listed a few different manufacturers and other ideas up to airbags being installed...

See if there is anything helpful in that short read...

-a-

 

[Alan Fox]

When you install the mounts , they need to be installed about a little higher than halfway up the window ,  If they are any lower , they will cause compression fractures in your back , should you ever have an accident , I have had to move them up , on more than one occasion , ( when installed incorrectly) ... The slip through harness , will not fit the old seat lap belts , as they "flush up " to each other...   When I sell these used , I get 4 to 5 hundred for the set.....  The only way to save money , buying new , would be to make measurements , and have a shop custom make you a set , Try Wag aero , They have a seat belt shop.....  Good luck... 

[Guest]

To ease the installation, see if you can have the nuts welded to the back of the clamp, it makes installing the shoulder much easier.

The male portion of your current lap belt is likely too short to accept the shoulder belt tab and still latch into the female buckle.

Clarence

[Alan Fox]

2 hours ago, M20Doc said:

To ease the installation, see if you can have the nuts welded to the back of the clamp, it makes installing the shoulder much easier.

The male portion of your current lap belt is likely too short to accept the shoulder belt tab and still latch into the female buckle.

Clarence

I always "fiddlefuck" with a pair of hemostats , installing that back nut... Never even thought of welding them...I also drill and pin the clamps  , like the rudder interconnect , so they don't twist.. 

[0TreeLemur]

The shoulder belt attach point clamp on my a/c has an integral nut.  I didn't install, but this indicates they are available.

[Robert Hicks]

Order a set from Hooker harness. Each side is 200$

[TravelVeteran]

1 hour ago, Robert Hicks said:

Order a set from Hooker harness. Each side is 200$

this is exactly what im looking for. they sell a 3 point harness for $200?  or this is for the shoulder portion only?

[Robert Hicks]

this is exactly what im looking for. they sell a 3 point harness for $200?  or this is for the shoulder portion only?

The entire setup, lap and shoulder for 200$. Lead time for me was about 2 weeks.

[Robert Hicks]

One thing I wish I would have got on mine is the pull tabs on the shoulder portion adjustment bracket thingy. FYI

[TravelVeteran]

12 minutes ago, Robert Hicks said:

One thing I wish I would have got on mine is the pull tabs on the shoulder portion adjustment bracket thingy. FYI

yes that would make it much easier to adjust. thanks for your tips

[Jim Peace]

14 hours ago, TravelVeteran said:

 trying to see what my options might be. 

The only way to go:   https://alphaaviation.com/mooney-m20-a-thru-k-push-button-release/

 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Robert Hicks said:

One thing I wish I would have got on mine is the pull tabs on the shoulder portion adjustment bracket thingy. FYI

That is one of the issues with the Hooker style belts.  You have to add it to your order.

Clarence

[MikeOH]

10 hours ago, Robert Hicks said:

Order a set from Hooker harness. Each side is 200$

THIS ^^^^ is what I did.  I bought the Alpha clamp kit (which was a TOTAL, and COMPLETE, PITA to install) from Spruce, and the complete seat belt/harness from Hooker.  (My wife actually DEMANDED I remove the sewn on labels, however)

[carusoam]

Mike,

Absolutely funny...

Decades of seeing that name...

They are a premier supplier of safety equipment for all kinds of vehicles...

First time somebody sees that label... has got to cause some funny looks... 

Best regards,

-a-

[skydvrboy]

+1 for the Hooker harness set.  That is what I did, too.  Unfortunately, I didn't know about the pull tabs until after I bought them.  FYI... the pull tabs are an extra $3... yeah, that's all, no missing digits.  I also wish I knew that the inertia reel was an option.  I definitely would recommend that for the pilot side, an extra $175, but you will be able to reach the fuel selector and the door handle.

@Robert Hicks You might want to adjust that lap belt so the buckle is a little lower on your hip.  I'm guessing you adjusted it that way to keep it out of the way of your gear handle, but if I understand correctly, it can be a safety issue if you don't have it buckled far enough across your body.

@MikeOHI'm sorry your wife made you remove the labels.  It's always fun to tell new female passengers to strap into their hooker harness and see what kind of reaction I get! 

[Robert Hicks]

[mention]skydvrboy [/mention] yes that’s exactly why they are positioned where they are. Thanks for the heads up, I will research that and adjust accordingly.

[SSimpson77]

Thanks for the pics and info @Robert Hicks. I just ordered mine this morning and the clamp from alpha aviation. $220 a side is a great deal. I disliked the inertia reel type, I didn’t think that bulky reel looked good and would hit my head on it but that could be me trying to justify being cheap. 

[Nukemzzz]

I installed the 3 Point Alpha kit with inertial reels and push button latch. I love them. One thing I didn’t expect is you can leave the over the shoulder latched when you unbuckle and it reels up the outboard lower so it’s not in the way when you slide the seat back. It’s also really easy to use and you forget they are there. The 172 I trained in had fixed length shoulder and it limited my reach. The inertial reel is much better IMO. 

I installed the whole shoulder assembly and then trimmed the surround so I could install with them in place. Works great. Hard to see the trimming. Makes it so the nut is easier to put on. BTW, I tried brazing the nut on and it cracked when I flexed it to get it around the tube. Didn’t work. Welding is maybe better?

[MBDiagMan]

On 12/2/2020 at 11:45 PM, carusoam said:

Mike,

Absolutely funny...

Decades of seeing that name...

They are a premier supplier of safety equipment for all kinds of vehicles...

First time somebody sees that label... has got to cause some funny looks... 

Best regards,

-a-

I got to know Jack Hooker at Cessna 120-140 national events and have a wonderful set of his harnesses in my 140.

Jack himself is an impressive fellow, and his harnesses are also impressive.

I asked him at dinner one evening what led him into the business and the story is quite remarkable.  While in college he took up skydiving, met his forever lady, married and then decided that as a Family Man, maybe it wasn’t the right hobby for him.  In the course of his skydiving he had earned a parachute rigger certification.  From that the opportunity came along to build restraints for a race car, then that led back to aviation.  

I had his restraints in my 140 when I bough it and absolutely love them.  My current Mooney had reel type harnesses that I don’t have much confidence in.  If I can put in Hookers for $200 a side, I will be doing it before I get in the new engine.  I wonder if you have to pull the headliner to install them.

[carusoam]

Most of the three point harnesses, use a hard point on the side wall under the window trim...

I haven’t seen any four point harnesses in a Mooney... that may consider using the steel hoop that is above the front seats... not sure exactly where that hoop is, but it probably aligns with the existing hard points on the side wall...

For a more expensive option... the airbag seat belts get considered...

+1 For the life long efforts of Jack Hooker!

Best regards,

-a-

[skydvrboy]

8 hours ago, MBDiagMan said:

My current Mooney had reel type harnesses that I don’t have much confidence in.  If I can put in Hookers for $200 a side, I will be doing it before I get in the new engine.  I wonder if you have to pull the headliner to install them.

If you already have the alpha aviation belts with the inertia reel, you should be able to swap them out by only removing the window trim. After that, just unbolt the alphas and bolt on the hookers. They both use the same mounting hardware. The only real challenge might be getting the nut aligned properly.