Maryland Mechanic, Massachusetts Prebuy Inspection

[anthem4arequiem]

First of all hello, I am new to the forum and the Mooney community. I have been reading a lot of good info on here before creating an account. Sorry if this has been asked before, I searched but couldn't find the answer.

I am looking at buying an M20C in Massachusetts while I am in Southern Maryland. I was hoping to get some suggestions on a mechanic to do the prebuy for me, and someone to talk to in the MD area. I was told that there might be someone around the bay bridge area but I have not had any luck finding them. 

 

Thank you in advance for any help. I am also open to any other advice as this is the first aircraft I am purchasing. 

[JamesMooney]

I'm a new Mooney owner at KHEF (Virginia) - not far in Mooney time from anywhere in Maryland. Two recommendations I've received are Freeway Aviation (a MSC at Freeway Airport, east of DC) and Airmods.

I spoke with the Freeway folks and have my M20F scheduled for an oil change and to check out a few squawks in two weeks.

I like the idea of setting up a relationship with a local MSC - seems like a good long term arrangement

[anthem4arequiem]

1 hour ago, FlyingCanuck said:

I'm a new Mooney owner at KHEF (Virginia) - not far in Mooney time from anywhere in Maryland. Two recommendations I've received are Freeway Aviation (a MSC at Freeway Airport, east of DC) and Airmods.

I spoke with the Freeway folks and have my M20F scheduled for an oil change and to check out a few squawks in two weeks.

I like the idea of setting up a relationship with a local MSC - seems like a good long term arrangement

That one at W00 is probably the place by bay bridge that someone was telling me about (not too far).

Is going to a MSC the thing to do, or are there some A&Ps out there who better?

[JamesMooney]

I can't speak to 'better' - but the overall consensus is that a MSC is definitely the place to go for a Mooney, in general. Let me give you an example. Today I called one of the major A&P shops at my 'home' field (KHEF). They are a very expensive shop ($300 for an oil change - was the quote - which is 2-3x more than it should be). When I said I had a Mooney, they immediately told me they would only do basic stuff, like an oil change. They said "We don't have the manuals or the experience with Mooneys." My take-away from this: you want someone who truly knows Mooney. They aren't Cessnas, nor Pipers, nor Cirrus. They have unique systems, designs, advantages and quirks. It's time and money well spent to take it to a mechanic who truly has experience with Mooney. Whether they are branded MSC or not, I can't speak to - but I would certainly want to know (with some certainty) they have real experience with this aircraft type. (We aren't talking cars here, so don't apply any similar logic to the problem of taking your car back to the 'dealer' for repair - this is a different machine.)

I've also heard that having your Mooney regularly maintained by a MSC has a resale benefit - if you ever want to sell (why would you?! ) 

Just some early thoughts based on a lot of research. Others can agree or correct me!

Edited November 25, 2020 by FlyingCanuck

[jetdriven]

My shop is not an msc but we know mooneys.  And we find things.  Nothing more frustrating than having a prebuy that’s clean and then half a year later a 15k annual. I have references.  Byron. 484-4FLY RPM

[anthem4arequiem]

9 minutes ago, FlyingCanuck said:

I can't speak to 'better' - but the overall consensus is that a MSC is definitely the place to go for a Mooney, in general. Let me give you an example. Today I called one of the major A&P shops at my 'home' field (KHEF). They are a very expensive shop ($300 for an oil change - was the quote - which is 2-3x more than it should be). When I said I had a Mooney, they immediately told me they would only do basic stuff, like an oil change. They said "We don't have the manuals or the experience with Mooneys." My take-away from this: you want someone who truly knows Mooney. They aren't Cessnas, nor Pipers, nor Cirrus. They have unique systems, designs, advantages and quirks. It's time and money well spent to take it to a mechanic who truly has experience with Mooney. Whether they are branded MSC or not, I can't speak to - but I would certainly want to know (with some certainty) they have real experience with this aircraft type. (We aren't talking cars here, so don't apply any similar logic to the problem of taking your car back to the 'dealer' for repair - this is a different machine.)

I've also heard that having your Mooney regularly maintained by a MSC has a resale benefit - if you ever want to sell (why would you?! ) 

Just some early thoughts based on a lot of research. Others can agree or correct me!

Thanks for the example. There are a few Mooneys at local airport. I talked to the shops there and they bot said that Mooneys are harder to work on so expect to pay more, making me think I wanted to go to someone else. 

 

4 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

My shop is not an msc but we know mooneys.  And we find things.  Nothing more frustrating than having a prebuy that’s clean and then half a year later a 15k annual. I have references.  Byron. 484-4FLY RPM

You are close by, I would love to chat!

[jetdriven]

Give me a call. Let’s talk 

[carusoam]

Many MSCs are really good...

• They stock parts...
• They have all the documents...
• They have the tools...

The most important part is the people are the core...

Very often, there are a few mechanics that really know the Mooneys... A few are around here...

Byron is one of those highly recommended mechanics and shop owner and jet flyer....

Byron flew with me while I was breaking in a new engine... highly recommended... lots of his work has been posted around here...  

Best regards,

-a-

[Tim Jodice]

32 minutes ago, FlyingCanuck said:

Today I called one of the major A&P shops at my 'home' field (KHEF). They are a very expensive shop ($300 for an oil change - was the quote - which is 2-3x more than it should be).

Your suggesting that an oil change should be $100-150?

8 qts of Philips 20W-50 Victory and a Tempest with shipping to Massachusetts From Aircraft Spruce is $93.62

A free lance mechanic won't survive on about $7 maybe $50. A repair station with more than one employee large overhead $50 is not going to work.

$250+/- is the going rate in Massachusetts/New Hampshire for 4 cylinder singles.

If you do it yourself and enjoy it, great! 

[JamesMooney]

48 minutes ago, Tim Jodice said:

Your suggesting that an oil change should be $100-150?

8 qts of Philips 20W-50 Victory and a Tempest with shipping to Massachusetts From Aircraft Spruce is $93.62

A free lance mechanic won't survive on about $7 maybe $50. A repair station with more than one employee large overhead $50 is not going to work.

$250+/- is the going rate in Massachusetts/New Hampshire for 4 cylinder singles.

If you do it yourself and enjoy it, great! 

No no, sorry. The quote was $330 in labor, plus parts (I.e. $400+ all inclusive). 
There’s a thread here on MSC where most people are reporting $125-250 for labor, plus oil and parts. So $330+oil/parts felt a bit high. 
maybe I’m wrong. Maybe $400 oil changes are normal!

Edited November 25, 2020 by FlyingCanuck

[carusoam]

Normal for some... and a driving force for others...

Find the threads regarding best procedures for oil changes...

If you are into learning your machine... oil changes are a way to save some dough, and change more often... and inspect things while you are in there...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[Rusty Pilot]

Anthem, welcome aboard.  I live in Southern MD, Newburg and own a 1974 C.  I keep my plane at Shannon Fredericksburg, VA, where a hangar was available, fuel is reasonable, transition training was on field and not a far drive from my house.  Please post pictures of your new plane and if needed I recommend finding an experienced Mooney Pilot for transition training.  There are a few good ones nearby.  Good luck with the purchase and pre-buy.

[Tim Jodice]

21 minutes ago, FlyingCanuck said:

No no, sorry. The quote was $330 in labor, plus parts (I.e. $400+ all inclusive). 
There’s a thread here on MSC where most people are reporting $125-250 for labor, plus oil and parts. So $330+oil/parts felt a bit high. 
maybe I’m wrong. Maybe $400 oil changes are normal!

I agree $330 in labor alone is on the high side for a 4 cylinder single. 

[anthem4arequiem]

3 hours ago, Rusty Pilot said:

Anthem, welcome aboard.  I live in Southern MD, Newburg and own a 1974 C.  I keep my plane at Shannon Fredericksburg, VA, where a hangar was available, fuel is reasonable, transition training was on field and not a far drive from my house.  Please post pictures of your new plane and if needed I recommend finding an experienced Mooney Pilot for transition training.  There are a few good ones nearby.  Good luck with the purchase and pre-buy.

Thank Rusty. I have been to EZF a few times (had family there). I will be at 2W6. Hopefully we will run into each other once I get something!

[daytonabch04]

14 hours ago, FlyingCanuck said:

No no, sorry. The quote was $330 in labor, plus parts (I.e. $400+ all inclusive). 
There’s a thread here on MSC where most people are reporting $125-250 for labor, plus oil and parts. So $330+oil/parts felt a bit high. 
maybe I’m wrong. Maybe $400 oil changes are normal!

Last week I just paid $307 for an oil change at an MSC in the Midwest.  $190 of that labor (2 hrs).  

[Sanoi]

I agree with the earlier post.

I highly recommend Lawrence Airmotive KLWM.

I use to maintain my two aircraft with the prior owner of the place and now with Nik the current owner. Honest and diligent at a fair cost.

However, if you want a comprehensive inspection, ask the seller to fly the plane to 

Air-Mods Service Center of Trenton-Robbinsville airport (N87) New Jersey. Not a far place to go to for a Mooney.

At this place, you will pay more but will get an extensive list of major and minor issues including structure corrosion. This way you will not be surprise later. Also, if the seller refuse to fly the plane to a reasonable distance for a pre-buy with a reputable mechanic, that should raise a YELLOW flag. (Not a RED FLAG)

 Do yourself a favor and do not cut corners with the pre-buy inspection.

[Sanoi]

I agree with the earlier post.

I highly recommend Lawrence Airmotive KLWM.

I use to maintain my two aircraft with the prior owner of the place and now with Nik the current owner. Honest and diligent at a fair cost.

However, if you want a comprehensive inspection, ask the seller to fly the plane to 

Air-Mods Service Center of Trenton-Robbinsville airport (N87) New Jersey. Not a far place to go to for a Mooney.

At this place, you will pay more but will get an extensive list of major and minor issues including structure corrosion. This way you will not be surprise later. Also, if the seller refuse to fly the plane to a reasonable distance for a pre-buy with a reputable mechanic, that should raise a YELLOW flag. (Not a RED FLAG)

 Do yourself a favor and do not cut corners with the pre-buy inspection.

[Tim Jodice]

6 hours ago, daytonabch04 said:

Last week I just paid $307 for an oil change at an MSC in the Midwest.  $190 of that labor (2 hrs).  

I think that sounds right for a 6 cylinder at a MSC. What do you think?

[Cloudmirth]

I can highly recommend Lawrence Airmotive at LWM.  While they are not a Mooney service center Nick, the owner, is both a very talented mechanic and services a number of Mooneys.  Assisted by Brian And Mike you will get both outstanding service and will be dealing with friendly, highly competent and efficient technicians.  I have dealt with Nick and Brian for many years and would not go anywhere else.

[carusoam]

Nice pirep for Lawrence Airmotive, Cloud!

Thanks for sharing it...

Best regards,

-a-

[anthem4arequiem]

5 hours ago, Jonás said:

I agree with the earlier post.

I highly recommend Lawrence Airmotive KLWM.

I use to maintain my two aircraft with the prior owner of the place and now with Nik the current owner. Honest and diligent at a fair cost.

However, if you want a comprehensive inspection, ask the seller to fly the plane to 

Air-Mods Service Center of Trenton-Robbinsville airport (N87) New Jersey. Not a far place to go to for a Mooney.

At this place, you will pay more but will get an extensive list of major and minor issues including structure corrosion. This way you will not be surprise later. Also, if the seller refuse to fly the plane to a reasonable distance for a pre-buy with a reputable mechanic, that should raise a YELLOW flag. (Not a RED FLAG)

 Do yourself a favor and do not cut corners with the pre-buy inspection.

 

2 hours ago, Cloudmirth said:

I can highly recommend Lawrence Airmotive at LWM.  While they are not a Mooney service center Nick, the owner, is both a very talented mechanic and services a number of Mooneys.  Assisted by Brian And Mike you will get both outstanding service and will be dealing with friendly, highly competent and efficient technicians.  I have dealt with Nick and Brian for many years and would not go anywhere else.

Thanks for the good gouge. Sounds like I need to call Nick at KLWM. 

 

N87 is about half way between us, so that may also be a good spot. I am ok with paying a bit more to get less surprises. 

 

I appreciate all the advice. I can't believe how much help I have been getting on this forum!

[carusoam]

MS is on the internet.... but it isn’t the internet...

This is the place where real people, fly real airplanes...

Enjoy the difference!

Best regards,

-a-