Landing Height System for Mooney

[Pinecone]

On 5/4/2024 at 7:41 PM, Jetpilot86 said:

Don’t forget to get the “experimental” gear warning turned on. Mine is supposed to bark at me at 250’ AGL if they aren’t already down. Probably need to verify that one day. Preferably before it might be needed. 

The gear warning is not experimental.  And the call out is at 200 AGL, but only if you wire the LHS to the gear switch or indicator.

The callouts at 2 feet and 1 foot are "experimental."

[Pinecone]

On 5/5/2024 at 7:37 PM, aviatoreb said:

Huh!  I never heard of that feature?  I want to do that - I have the warning system - how do I turn it on?

IIRC you have to have the C version of the LHS and it has to be wired to the gear switch or indicator.

[M20F-1968]

On 5/6/2024 at 11:51 AM, Microkit said:

 

John, you do have the 100-B (since Nov 2020).  Upgrading requires the unit back (though; one day turn around), and the 4-pin connector to be changed to a 5-pin connector, a new airplane-side 5-pin connector will be sent along with the upgraded unit, at least one more wire will need to be pulled to the location of the unit and to be connected to your down and locked light.  

Adding to what dkkim73 said, we intentionally removed the "gear reminder only @ 200 ft" in the 200-C model so it's not tuned out, the Check Landing Gear message will be repeated every 4 seconds, without any height call out until either a positive rate of climb is registered or the gear is down.   

Maybe you can upgrade the unit 10 days or so before your annual or extended period of downtime.   If you fully satisfied with the P2 function to get your attnedeton during high-load or fully distracted scenarios, I am guessing no need to upgrade.  

 

Does the upgrade only talk to you if the gear is not appropriately down, or does it talk to me either way.  

As you know, the P2 system has a nagging female voice if not down, and a relaxed male voice if down.  It takes more into account than just the single light status.  It might make sense to have a second voice if the gear is not down.

I assume the upgrade and the P2 can work together.  Will they talk over each other?

What is the cost for the upgrade?  

John Breda

[Microkit]

9 minutes ago, M20F-1968 said:

Does the upgrade only talk to you if the gear is not appropriately down, or does it talk to me either way.  

As you know, the P2 system has a nagging female voice if not down, and a relaxed male voice if down.  It takes more into account than just the single light status.  It might make sense to have a second voice if the gear is not down.

I assume the upgrade and the P2 can work together.  Will they talk over each other?

What is the cost for the upgrade?  

John Breda

 

The "Check Landing Gear" audio message is only heard if the gear is up, in fact, the height call it ourself will be omitted to give you further notice that things are not normal.  

Basically, the Gear Warning System is a single wire gets attached to the Gear Lever itself or to a single indicator that shows gear is down and locked, our wire is just an opto-isolated voltage sense, it just senses if there is a voltage on the wire versus no voltage (open or ground) and based on that, you can set it up to assume gear is down when voltage is present or visa-versa, this setup is done through the wifi setup menu.  Once the system is told what voltage on the wire means (gear is up or down), then once it sees the ground below starting 220 ft AGL, it checks the condition of the gear based, and if the gear is still up, it keeps repeating "Check Landing Gear" every 4 seconds until either a positive rate of climb is registered or the gear is extended. 

Here is link for the upgrade offer.

https://landingheight.com/product/lhs-upgrade-options/

 

[M20F-1968]

15 minutes ago, Microkit said:

 

The "Check Landing Gear" audio message is only heard if the gear is up, in fact, the height call it ourself will be omitted to give you further notice that things are not normal.  

Basically, the Gear Warning System is a single wire gets attached to the Gear Lever itself or to a single indicator that shows gear is down and locked, our wire is just an opto-isolated voltage sense, it just senses if there is a voltage on the wire versus no voltage (open or ground) and based on that, you can set it up to assume gear is down when voltage is present or visa-versa, this setup is done through the wifi setup menu.  Once the system is told what voltage on the wire means (gear is up or down), then once it sees the ground below starting 220 ft AGL, it checks the condition of the gear based, and if the gear is still up, it keeps repeating "Check Landing Gear" every 4 seconds until either a positive rate of climb is registered or the gear is extended. 

Here is link for the upgrade offer.

https://landingheight.com/product/lhs-upgrade-options/

 

What is the difference between the 100B to 200B v. the 100B to 200C upgrade?

John Breda

[M20F-1968]

19 minutes ago, Microkit said:

 

The "Check Landing Gear" audio message is only heard if the gear is up, in fact, the height call it ourself will be omitted to give you further notice that things are not normal.  

Basically, the Gear Warning System is a single wire gets attached to the Gear Lever itself or to a single indicator that shows gear is down and locked, our wire is just an opto-isolated voltage sense, it just senses if there is a voltage on the wire versus no voltage (open or ground) and based on that, you can set it up to assume gear is down when voltage is present or visa-versa, this setup is done through the wifi setup menu.  Once the system is told what voltage on the wire means (gear is up or down), then once it sees the ground below starting 220 ft AGL, it checks the condition of the gear based, and if the gear is still up, it keeps repeating "Check Landing Gear" every 4 seconds until either a positive rate of climb is registered or the gear is extended. 

Here is link for the upgrade offer.

https://landingheight.com/product/lhs-upgrade-options/

 

I assume that the system can still se set up to retain the 2' and 1' callouts, as these are the most helpful.

John Breda

[Microkit]

9 minutes ago, M20F-1968 said:

I assume that the system can still se set up to retain the 2' and 1' callouts, as these are the most helpful.

John Breda

Yes, no changes in the system regarding AGL callout.  100-B (which is your current model) to 200-B or 200-C, it just depends if you want the Gear Warning System (then you need 200-C) or you want to upgrade the 100-B to 200-B which is without gear related functions.  In your case, if you want the Gear Warning System, your only option is 100-B to 200-C.  

The 200-B (and -C as well) adds GPS feed compared with the 100-B.  A wire connects to an available GPS in your airplane which can output Aviation Output 1 format via RS232 port.    The main reason for this addition, is to allow speed threshold settings within our system, it is for those who fly IMC a lot, where at certain types of IMC (high content moisture or near freezing) the unit may see a solid layer and report the range;  with the Speed Threshold setup, you set it 10kt or 20kt above your approach speed, and the unit will auto-mute any callout once it sees the aircraft speed (coming from your GPS) exceeds that set threshold in the wifi setup.    Many don't hookup the GPS, and just mute the unit via their audio panel when they are in IMC and put it back on during downwind check or when they leave IMC.  

[bradp]

I’ve got my landing height system set up such that I still have the 2- and 1- foot call outs (very helpful at night), and the gear position annunciator is wired to the second side of the gear switch.  I put a little placard stating LHS indicates gear switch position only.  It’s pretty flawless.  I do get a tiny bit of electrical noise in the system, though. 

[Fly Boomer]

14 hours ago, bradp said:

 I do get a tiny bit of electrical noise in the system, though. 

Can you describe this?  I assume you are hearing something in your headset.  When do you hear the noise?

[bradp]

5 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

Can you describe this?  I assume you are hearing something in your headset.  When do you hear the noise?

A very mild pulsing that I think might be draw with the unit itself … only when audio selected with the LHS.  Nothing too annoying and barely audible.  I originally thought it might be the Beacon or the strobes bleeding through on the audio input, but I don’t think it’s either.  Next time I am. in the plane, I’ll see if I can record it.

[Microkit]

10 minutes ago, bradp said:

A very mild pulsing that I think might be draw with the unit itself … only when audio selected with the LHS.  Nothing too annoying and barely audible.  I originally thought it might be the Beacon or the strobes bleeding through on the audio input, but I don’t think it’s either.  Next time I am. in the plane, I’ll see if I can record it.

Most probably induced noise.  If the audio wire is routed next to high load wire, such as if the battery is under the back seat and the wiring from the unit at the wing is routed along or near the same bundle, then some noise comes in.  Or audio wire shield is connected to ground from both ends or not used at all.   

[bradp]

Just now, Microkit said:

Most probably induced noise.  If the audio wire is routed next to high load wire, such as if the battery is under the back seat and the wiring from the unit at the wing is routed along or near the same bundle, then some noise comes in.  Or audio wire shield is connected to ground from both ends or not used at all.   

Yeah it’s grounded properly but does live in the left wing meaning it travels with the battery cable for about 2 feet as the audio wires exit the fwd wing tunnel and head up to the panel. 

[Microkit]

The show special is currently active, promotion through Sunday, July 28th. https://landingheight.com/shop/

Also, I would like to introduce our new FAA Certified product, the Audio Checklist.  Promotion price $335.  
For those with LHS already installed, share the same power/ground/audio channel wire with the LHS.  Unit designed to share the same audio channel, making installation simple and fast; just find these three wires from the back of the panel, splice the audio checklist connector to these wires, done.    

I am going to copy and paste some of the points from the product page here, and I am looking forward to answering any questions.  

The Microkit Audio Checklist is a digital device that plays pre-stored audio files checklists using the airplane intercom or audio panel.   The unit can also connect directly to a headset providing the headset can amplify the audio output of the unit.    

The Audio Checklist unit comes with a remote control to trigger playing a checklist, and it offers an interface for up to 3 external push-buttons such as on the panel to trigger playing any checklist. These 3 optional push-buttons can be installed then configured to trigger a specific checklist such as the Emergency Checklist, GUMPS, or Landing (on final) Checklist with a single push.

Owners/Operators are able to upload their own checklists using the built-in WiFi interface.   

The remote control offers direct access to specific checklists such as the “Emergency Checklist” using a single dedicated button.  Several emergency checklists can be stored and accessed.

Direct access to the next checklist once the previous one is already played, such as the PreStart checklist then the next checklist the unit will play is the Taxi for example, as Owners/Operators decide the order sequence of the checklists when uploading the audio files to the unit.

- Listen to the checklist over the headset or cabin speaker.

- Up to 9 standard checklists and up to 6 emergency checklists.

- Dedicated button to hear the emergency checklists.

- Optional panel/yoke/stick push-buttons; configure up to 3 push-buttons to be associated with a checklist or to navigate through all checklists. (Push buttons are not included)

- Handy remote control that can be placed anywhere such as the panel, yoke, window, side trim.  Co-pilot can have a remote on their own side as well.  (One remote control included)

- Accepts standard MP3 audio files.  Record your own or use freely available online Text-to-Speech sites to create your own checklists. (checkout the User’s Guide)

- Logical transition between different checklists with a single button, once the first checklist is heard, the next checklist plays in sequence till the end of the flight.

- Fully configurable to listen to all items in a specific checklist with a customizable pause (for example PreStart Checklist), or to step through it one item at a time with a dedicated button (STEP).

- Upload shared checklists for your own make/model airplane in a single ZIP file.

- 2 configurable custom remote buttons that give direct access to a specific checklist.

- Simple to install, only requires power, ground and an audio channel on the audio panel.  If the Landing Height System is installed, share the same power wires and use the same Audio channel used for the LHS for even faster installation.

Check it out here: https://landingheight.com/product/audio-checklist/

 

[LANCECASPER]

On 7/29/2022 at 1:12 PM, Microkit said:

@hammdo 200-C unit is designed to offer three choices (on the same wire);  selectable using WiFi.  

Either connect that wire to the gear Lever Up position to detect voltage present on that wire meaning gear lever is placed at the up position, or connect the wire to the gear Lever down position to detect voltage, or connect the wire to the limit switch / light for safe gear indicator to detect ground activation.   

Normally these limit switches are connected in series and if any of these switches are not triggered, the green light indicating gear down and locked won't be ON.  Once all these switches (or single limit switch in some cases) is triggered, it "grounds" the wire to complete the circuit for the Green Light to illuminate, we can detect ground activation on that wire also if selected in the WiFi.     

Knowing there are various different wiring diagrams for different Mooney airplanes, it will be helpful if someone can maybe post a wiring diagram of the different kinds of landing gear limit switches/lights, but we believe the three choices above should cover all scenarios.   When you say Red light? Do you mean the Red light is ON when the gear is not safe?  Or it is ON when the gear down and locked?   If it is the former; does this mean you don't have a green light that goes ON all the time while the gear is down and locked?

To Nidal and Mooney owners who have installed the 200-C for gear position:

Many Mooneys have a lighted Gear Down Indicator on the floor of the airplane easily accessible from the belly. Would running the yellow wire on the LHS to this gear indicator light or any other switches in the belly work? It would be much easier than running it all the way to the annunciator or panel gear switch.

Thanks!

[M20S Driver]

57 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

To Nidal and Mooney owners who have installed the 200-C for gear position:

Many Mooneys have a lighted Gear Down Indicator on the floor of the airplane easily accessible from the belly. Would running the yellow wire on the LHS to this gear indicator light or any other switches in the belly work? It would be much easier than running it all the way to the annunciator or panel gear switch.

Thanks!

Yes.  Mine is done like that and works fine. 

[LANCECASPER]

8 minutes ago, M20S Driver said:

Yes.  Mine is done like that and works fine. 

Do you know exactly what it was hooked up to under the belly and what settings are used on the LHS?

I am thinking that the light under there is actually on whether gear is up or down to show barber poles or gear down indication. 

[Microkit]

2 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

Do you know exactly what it was hooked up to under the belly and what settings are used on the LHS?

I am thinking that the light under there is actually on whether gear is up or down to show barber poles or gear down indication. 

 

Let me describe how the Gear Warning System works:  

The Gear Warning System is an opto-isolated voltage sense.  So it looks for voltage vs ground (or open).  It does not detect ground itself, it just detects if > 6v is in the wire, so Ground or open circuit is the same state for the system which is: No voltage present state.

The settings on the WiFi setup page for the GWS are basically two choices, you are telling the system if voltage is present on the wire, then consider the gear is down, or if voltage is present in the wire, consider gear is up.   This to accommodate various airplanes/setups and hookup methods.

So for the Mooney M20J with the annunciator panel (the one we did and provided details on Page 16 of this thread here: https://mooneyspace.com/topic/36596-landing-height-system-for-mooney/?do=findComment&comment=747501), all 3 limit switches which are connected in series, so when all are clicked when gear is down and locked, it provides +VE voltage to the Down light on the annunciator panel.  So we spliced into that wire going to the Down light pin and set up the LHS to consider gear is down when the voltage is present on the wire.  More details on that at the link above.

I think most Mooney (if not all) use that method (provide +VE voltage) to indicate the 3 limit switches for the gear to a light and the 2nd wire of the light is permanently hooked up to ground.

There are some airplanes in the Comanche fleet for example that do it the other way around, the permanent side of the light is hooked up to +VE power, and the limit switches provide (trigger) ground of the light to make it work.   

So first, you need to determine which side of that light is the control side (trigger side) and which side is permanently connected.    If the trigger side provides +VE, connect the GWS yellow wire to that.  If the trigger side provides ground, you can still use it, but you will need to use a small mini relay to make the relay trigger +ve to the yellow wire when it is triggered with ground.  

If unsure, best to have the airplane on jacks and check, even to check when with the unit installed, as when you set up the unit for the GWS, visit the WiFi page again, and it should say Gear Down (at the bottom of the page) if it was set up correctly and the gear is down and when you put the gear up, the page will show Gear Up.

Remember to test the GWS every time the airplane comes out of annual or panel work/major maintenance or upgrade.  There was a case where someone wanted to demonstrate the GWS to a pilot buddy (two months after the airplane had a major panel upgrade) and it was considering gear down all the time as someone did not know the wire or the need for it and they connected it permanently to a +VE source, so the owner flew the airplane for two months thinking the GWS was enabled and working while it was not.   It is recommended to also check it out in-flight once in a while, by doing a low approach with the gear up or at least every bi-annual with an instructor.

[M20S Driver]

My LH gear position sensor wire is connected to WE30A20 going to the floor Gear Down and connected to WE31A20 which is connected to Gear Down light in the annunciator.  I am pretty sure this is how it was done on my plane.