How far out do you call tower?

[MikeOH]

12 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

Isn't it amazing how many questions actually have an official answer?

Yuup.  I'm really going to piss him off next time and call up 15 miles out!

[MikeOH]

6 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

Who said that?

Reading @Ibra's entire post made it clear to me "min" was a typo; pretty sure he meant nm.

[MikeOH]

8 hours ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

However, asking for another call when you're 5 miles out is a reasonable request (especially if there is a lot of traffic in the area squawking 1200 or if he needs a reminder for whatever reason).

Well, not so much that it was unreasonable, merely very odd considering there was only one other plane in the pattern on downwind for the south runway and I was approaching from the northeast requesting the north runway.  No WAY there was a lot of traffic!

I had thought there were two other planes but I listened to LiveATC and only heard one other plane on tower freq.  However, I'm not sure how complete the Live ATC recording really was as it did NOT include my response when he told me to call back at 5 miles.

[1964-M20E]

typically 8 to 10 miles

[Nick Pilotte]

When flying in other countries besides the USA, do they still use nautical miles?  Or do they use nautical Km’s?

 

That was partially a joke. 
One thing I thought of after reading the responses was perhaps the controller was working on multiple frequencies and was getting overwhelmed.  That does happen at my home field occasionally when they are working ground and tower, then have to get on the phone with Approach or something. 

Edited November 17, 2020 by Nick Pilotte

[Immelman]

Call when appropriate for the circumstances, or failing any special circumstances per the AIM.

The controller's happiness is not our responsibility. Operating safely and in compliance with the FARs is.

If they don't like it, Boo-Freaking-Hoo. No donut for you.

[tmo]

8 hours ago, Nick Pilotte said:

When flying in other countries besides the USA, do they still use nautical miles?  Or do they use nautical Km’s?

We could ask the wise ones amongst us to share some stories about flying in the former Soviet Union - I believe they use a bastard combination of imperial and metric for the sole purpose to win the prize for "most confusing units". They probably don't use stone or furlong, but close.

In Poland, we generally use knots, so nautical miles naturally follow for distance; millibars for pressure, feet for clouds and altitude, because flight levels would be nonsensical otherwise; for what it's worth, I convert some of these mentally to our "native" units, for example kilometers for distance, just because I know A is 100km from B, and I mentally approximate it to 60 statue miles, which are close enough to nautical miles. It becomes a bastard when the flight I wanted to log as XC turns out to be 49.6 NM A to B, but I now have list of "too close" airfields.

In reality it doesn't matter much; degrees are the same everywhere, and GPS will show whatever you set it to.

[midlifeflyer]

11 hours ago, MikeOH said:

Reading @Ibra's entire post made it clear to me "min" was a typo; pretty sure he meant nm.

Thanks. I was wondering.

[gsxrpilot]

If I'm going into an unfamiliar airport, then 15 nm is my SOP. But for the local field, knowledge about the local customs and preferences of the tower prevails. 

At San Marcos, TX there are some good landmarks at 13 nm. If you call at 15, they'll probably tell you to call back at 12 or 13. If you call in at 10, it's too close for their comfort.

At KBJC here under the busy Denver Bravo, they seem to like 10 nm. If the day is quiet (rarely) they'll talk to you at 12 or 13, but on most normal days, 10 is the outer limit. 

My very unscientific survey seems to indicate that the busier the airspace, the smaller the "communications ring". I expect it might be like the traffic display on my panel mounted GPS or ForeFlight. If there is no traffic in the area, I might zoom out to 20 miles or more. But in the super congested airspace around Denver, my traffic display is zoomed in to 10 miles or less. Otherwise it's just too cluttered and hard to pick out relevant targets.

[Joe Zuffoletto]

23 hours ago, bonal said:

Or like so many perhaps a bad year. God knows many have. Ten to twelve for me but sometimes sooner if radio traffic is really busy 

Bonal, ain't that the truth! Can't wait to leave 2020 in hindsight.

[bonal]

Sadly I'm not very optimistic about 2021. Dark winter in the forecasts and I'm hoping I'm wrong.  2020 has been a cast iron b%÷/ch

[Greg_D]

On 11/16/2020 at 6:33 AM, midlifeflyer said:

Isn't it amazing how many questions actually have an official answer?

Any traffic in the pattern, please advise?

[midlifeflyer]

2 hours ago, Greg_D said:

Any traffic in the pattern, please advise?

"It's bumper to bumper on I-40."

[jlunseth]

15 miles for me. My home airport is a D under a B veil. First, it is what I was taught. Second, the majority of the time I am coming in from the west and there is a landmark on the west side, I just use it out of habit (it’s a visual reporting point). Third, on rare occasions I have come in to the airport (KFCM) only to find out they are dealing with some issue in the pattern. Once it was a student who was completely lost while in the pattern and they could not get her headed in a direction that allowed her to land. When they got her on the ground she asked for a takeoff clearance and they declined, told her no, she would have to talk to her instructor. Another time they had a collapsed nose gear on a runway. If you wait too long and they are busy with something like that you may not hear your tail number until you are right at the airspace. Best to give them a little time.

[Mooneymite]

Personally, I don't think the exact distance or time that you transmit matters nearly as much as when one begins monitoring the tower frequency.  By listening up, you get a feel for the tempo of operations and how the tower controller is handling traffic.

If he chastises pilots for calling too far out...that's a clue. 

[Nick Pilotte]

I want to change my answer. If I called 15 miles out, it would take me 10 minutes to get to the field because I’m flying a lowly 172. I’d probably get “Skyhawk97X, make left traffic for 20R, you are number 52 to land. 

[EricJ]

On 11/16/2020 at 9:38 AM, EricJ said:

Yesterday I was listening to the tower of a Class-D controlled field just because I was passing along side of their airspace.   I heard this transpire:

"Tower this is Mustang xyz, can you set me up for a landing?" - this was his first call-in that I heard and the "can you set me up for a landing" is an accurate quote.

"Mustang xyz, say position."

"I'm on downwind abeam the tower."

There was a bit of a pause and then the tower handled him pretty professionally.   This is at a busy field with a lot of school traffic.   I think I'd have deviated him, but if they did they waited until he got on the ground as I never heard anything other than a very competent management of getting him landed.

 

Found it.   Starts at 22:56 here.   Not a big deal, but I thought it was interesting to hear transpire.

https://archive-server.liveatc.net/kprc/KPRC-Twr-One-Nov-15-2020-2100Z.mp3

[Joe Zuffoletto]

Well, I'd say the Mustang called about 10 miles too late!

[Jim Peace]

On 11/16/2020 at 8:00 PM, Nick Pilotte said:

When flying in other countries besides the USA, do they still use nautical miles?  Or do they use nautical Km’s?

depends where you are

Visibility minimus can be in meters, or wind in meters per second, Altitude in meters and different conversions for the RVSM space called Flight level allocation scheme FLAS or something like that.  Usually 100 feet off a standard conversion. TA and TL altitudes are all over the place and also differ with local altimeter settings in some places.   

When you leave the USA nothing is standard.  In primary flight training I remember being told that aviation is standard all over the world....well that ain't true.  We have TERPS and most of the rest of the world uses PANS ops and different versions of that.  

Its all easier than taxiing around EWR though.....

[M20F-1968]

Gradual descent is nice...

Start down as far out as it takes and as able for a 300 ft. per minute gradual descent.  

John Breda

[M20F-1968]

10 minutes ago, M20F-1968 said:

Gradual descent is nice...

Start down as far out as it takes and as able for a 300 ft. per minute gradual descent.  

John Breda

What I am really saying is if VFR:  10-15 miles.  If long cross-country on an IFR flight plan, I ask for lower early, point the nose slightly down so I do not need to do much to reconfigure the plane, gain back my energy and fuel costs from my initial climb, give tower early notification by requesting a descent, and enjoy the ride and the added airspeed.

John Breda