rightforlineup Posted August 18, 2020 Report Posted August 18, 2020 Hi, I owned and flew a modded "C" for years all over the eastern 2/3 of the US. Currently fly experimental(s) and use a club 182 (or rent) when I need more seats, or airlines when icing is an issue. With airline schedules being slashed I'm contemplating an older FIKI Ovation 1/2/3. Also considering SR22, but I have a comfort level and familiarity with the M20. Interested in discussing maintenance and TKS experiences of current owners and impact on factory closure/parts availability, especially in person. Much appreciate the time and willing to buy beer/food/avgas. St Louis area, but I get around. Is MAPA defunct? Looks like website is down. Cheers, Bob Quote
irishpilot Posted August 18, 2020 Report Posted August 18, 2020 can't speak to Ovation, but my Bravo TKS works as advertised. Ops tested in icing and works as long as you don't wait for accumulation. System does need to be ran periodically for pump and lines. Don't plan on flying in icing, but it is nice to have when encountered.Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk 2 Quote
GeeBee Posted August 18, 2020 Report Posted August 18, 2020 My experience with my FIKI Ovation has been good, since I got it running. The previous owner did not exercise the system and while he provided overhauled pumps with the purchase, I found I had to replace the windshield solenoid which the Mooney MM describes as "extremely reliable". I finally ran a full purge of the system with a pressure pot and that cured all the problems. I have encountered moderate icing twice and the system worked very good. I was happy and I am a guy who flew bleed air anti-ice systems for decades. I might add get rid of the copper tube to the slinger and go with the SS unit. Pricey (110 bucks) but it cures all the problems. As Irishpilot says, exercise the system. I do it when I change data bases every 28 days. Run both pumps and both windshield system. You need to read the Mooney MM in detail so you understand the system. For instance, you will get low pressure lights in the summer because of lack of fluid viscosity. On MAX you will likely get the low pressure light out, and then run normal. You have to look at your panels in the summer to verify things. Finally CAV Systems who designed and builds the system is very helpful, has plenty of parts and is very, very responsible both with parts and technical support. As to the factory, they have been good and helpful. Most parts are available in a few days, but you need a good relationship with your parts dealer. I use LASAR and they have been very good. Right now I am waiting for a new hose from the alternate air box, and I am told it is about 1-2 weeks. It is not grounding, I just stay out in front of the replaceable. 1 Quote
rightforlineup Posted August 18, 2020 Author Report Posted August 18, 2020 (edited) thanks guys yes my experience from many years ago was with bleed systems. I was looking over the Ovation ADs and they don't look too bad to keep up with. Should I be concerned about spar or tube frame corrosion on a 20 yo M20R or be budgeting for fuel tank reseal? Edited August 18, 2020 by rightforlineup Quote
carusoam Posted August 18, 2020 Report Posted August 18, 2020 Welcome aboard Rightfor! ...or congrats on your first post? The factory is currently open with a skeleton crew... factory ups and downs have been a way of life since 1958... MAPA can still be found here... https://www.mooneysafety.com All is still good in the Mooney World! Os are wonderful modern machines... O3s aren’t that old at all.... Fiki is as good as it gets for dependability and dispatch ability... Putting an O3’s power plant in an older O1 is a common upgrade for awesome performance... TKS systems use a small amount of owner maintenance... the more you fly, the less you will notice it... If you liked the M20C... the M20R is a super modded M20C.... similar... it just takes a day to get used to all the upgrades and their affects... If you like... speed, efficiency, safety... And, If it helps... send the beer to MooneySpace.com... (its only a year until KOSH 2021!) Go Mooney! PP thoughts only, not a plane sales guy.... Best regards, -a- 2 Quote
rightforlineup Posted August 18, 2020 Author Report Posted August 18, 2020 Hey, thanks for the welcome. So the engine upgrade is not just a paper chase to increase RPMs huh? Quote
Niko182 Posted August 18, 2020 Report Posted August 18, 2020 IMO the tanks have been pretty reliable. I have a 99 Eagle/Ovation, and the tanks haven't been touched. You're going to want a hartzell SS prop over the Mccauley prop. The O1 to O3 conversion is simply a paperwork STC. Nothing parts wise on the engine changes, but you do need a 3 blade hartzell prop.. the only thing is RPM goes up from 2500 to 2700. Fuel flow goes up. And a couple placards. I'd find a plane that also has the Mortiz gauges replaced. The donuts and lord mounds should've been replaced in the last 10 years. Anything more and they're probably done for and will need replacing. GEEBEE's baffle kit is another good mod. The 310HP kit is not really required. It does however pay for itself. and it makes the plane takeoff and climb like a homesick angel. The biggest AD is the gear backspring clutch. It costs 2k give or take and is required every 1000 hours. Other than that, its an airplane. It goes up when you pull back and dives when you push forward. 2 Quote
carusoam Posted August 18, 2020 Report Posted August 18, 2020 31 minutes ago, rightforlineup said: Hey, thanks for the welcome. So the engine upgrade is not just a paper chase to increase RPMs huh? Sure it is... It burns more gas too... Oddly, the side effect is An 800’ T/O run instead of 1200’.... And climb is equally magical... The weird part... you can set the RPM for cruise... and the FF is magically back to O1 status... The O is a magic carpet of NA planes... The only thing better would be a FIKI Acclaim... I went for a ride in my friend Cris’ Screamin’ Eagle... You won’t need any portable instruments to know you are accelerating as if you are racing on a drag strip.... The second time, I brought my T/O measuring equipment along... The next time... I was measuring my T/O in my 310hp O3 powered Standing O. So the numbers I gave are from fuzzy memory... you can look them up in the STC, and compare them to the original POH... CHT control is everything for long cylinder life... Optional for flying in flaming dragon mode... Very much depends on how fast do you want to go today... PP thoughts only, not a finance administrator... Best regards, -a- 2 Quote
hypertech Posted August 18, 2020 Report Posted August 18, 2020 3 hours ago, GeeBee said: My experience with my FIKI Ovation has been good, since I got it running. The previous owner did not exercise the system and while he provided overhauled pumps with the purchase, I found I had to replace the windshield solenoid which the Mooney MM describes as "extremely reliable". I finally ran a full purge of the system with a pressure pot and that cured all the problems. I have encountered moderate icing twice and the system worked very good. I was happy and I am a guy who flew bleed air anti-ice systems for decades. I might add get rid of the copper tube to the slinger and go with the SS unit. Pricey (110 bucks) but it cures all the problems. As Irishpilot says, exercise the system. I do it when I change data bases every 28 days. Run both pumps and both windshield system. You need to read the Mooney MM in detail so you understand the system. For instance, you will get low pressure lights in the summer because of lack of fluid viscosity. On MAX you will likely get the low pressure light out, and then run normal. You have to look at your panels in the summer to verify things. Finally CAV Systems who designed and builds the system is very helpful, has plenty of parts and is very, very responsible both with parts and technical support. As to the factory, they have been good and helpful. Most parts are available in a few days, but you need a good relationship with your parts dealer. I use LASAR and they have been very good. Right now I am waiting for a new hose from the alternate air box, and I am told it is about 1-2 weeks. It is not grounding, I just stay out in front of the replaceable. The TKS parts come from CAV. Parts haven't been an issue for me. Except that that stainless tube for the slinger is now $204. Its still better than the copper tube though. Had the privilege of replacing that at the last annual because the copper tube was broken off and looking through the logs, it has broken with some regularity. CAV says that the SS fixes the issue and it should last forever now. 1 Quote
carusoam Posted August 19, 2020 Report Posted August 19, 2020 MS has a CAV guy... that can be really helpful to know... @CAV Ice and @CAV Ice Protection and a TKS fluid guy... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
smwash02 Posted August 20, 2020 Report Posted August 20, 2020 On 8/18/2020 at 5:08 PM, hypertech said: The TKS parts come from CAV. Parts haven't been an issue for me. Except that that stainless tube for the slinger is now $204. Its still better than the copper tube though. Had the privilege of replacing that at the last annual because the copper tube was broken off and looking through the logs, it has broken with some regularity. CAV says that the SS fixes the issue and it should last forever now. Bought one yesterday, $245.13 now. 1 Quote
Mcstealth Posted August 21, 2020 Report Posted August 21, 2020 Here ya go. All the bells and whistles. 2 Quote
rightforlineup Posted August 21, 2020 Author Report Posted August 21, 2020 how about experience with IO-550 maintenance, top end life, corrosion? Quote
StevenL757 Posted August 21, 2020 Report Posted August 21, 2020 @rightforlineup, Simple, really. Fly the airplane every week or more frequently and switch batteries each flight (and you'll avoid having to buy a Battery Minder) On a 310HP-equipped Ovation, take off at 2700RPM, cruise 2550RPM (2500RPM for non-310 airplanes) Fly it LOP Ensure you have the three things that make up the best ignition system possible on this engine... Bendix mags Gold Seal ignition harness Iridium finewire plugs Energizer starter (no Sky-Tec) Buy a Reiff preheat system if you don't already have one Do not have your mechanic "wash" the engine at annual or any other time There's more, but those are staples to get you started. Steve 1 2 Quote
StevenL757 Posted August 21, 2020 Report Posted August 21, 2020 On 8/18/2020 at 3:32 PM, rightforlineup said: thanks guys yes my experience from many years ago was with bleed systems. I was looking over the Ovation ADs and they don't look too bad to keep up with. Should I be concerned about spar or tube frame corrosion on a 20 yo M20R or be budgeting for fuel tank reseal? The AD list on this airframe is practically nonexistent. I'm always on the lookout for corrosion, and have yet to find anything...inside or out. Make it a practice to always look for it. When you find an IA/mechanic to do your annuals, get them to work with you on an owner-assisted annual. It'll be the best way to learn the airplane so you can make good problem statements down the road, should something go wrong. As far as a fuel tank reseal, I'm always budgeting for it. Depending on your tanks' current condition, you may be closer or further out depending on whether you have any seepage, leaking, dripping, and how many you notice on the airplane. Steve Quote
rightforlineup Posted August 21, 2020 Author Report Posted August 21, 2020 (edited) Thanks Steven. I do most of the maintenance myself on my RV (my hangar partner is an APIA). Gotta chuckle about going back to Bendix mags; the electronic ignitions in the E-AB world are the shizzle. Edited August 21, 2020 by rightforlineup 1 Quote
StevenL757 Posted August 21, 2020 Report Posted August 21, 2020 Yes. So far, heard good things about them in general, but no reports on how the IO550 platform does with them. Quote
GeeBee Posted August 21, 2020 Report Posted August 21, 2020 2 hours ago, rightforlineup said: Thanks Steven. I do most of the maintenance myself on my RV (my hangar partner is an APIA). Gotta chuckle about going back to Bendix mags; the electronic ignitions in the E-AB world are the shizzle. So far I have seen two failures, and I mean internal parts failing on SureFly electronics. I was a buyer but am sitting on the side lines right now. Electronics should be the bomb, but right now the Sure Fly is not impressing me. 1 Quote
Bentonck Posted August 21, 2020 Report Posted August 21, 2020 I just had a 2nd mag failure on my Acclaim in about 100 hours. The first time I went to run up on the runway and the left mag was just dead. It was the cap and after a glue job it was fixed. I flew last week and after I got up to altitude and went to lean the engine the EGT went off the gauge on the G1000 and flashed the red x (#2 cylinder) and the engine started misfiring. I had flown up to altitude through IMC and it was at night so I decided that a rich mixture and a quick landing were the order of the day and proceeded accordingly. I called my mechanic and he said it sounded like a mag (I thought it was likely a fuel issue) ... so they pulled the mags again, and off to the shop they went. They came back yesterday and were reinstalled and the plane is running again, weather is bad and it runs find on ground but am not going to fly (or likely tomorrow) but after this I am ready to try a electronic module in exchange for one of my mags. I have quoted it and will likely give it shot......the mags have not been friendly to me. I got my plane back from a 100hr three weeks ago and since picking it up it would not run lean at hardly at all......after much discussion it seems a consensus here that it's an ignition issue... we seem to have hijacked the FIKI thread but anyway... 1 Quote
Niko182 Posted August 21, 2020 Report Posted August 21, 2020 28 minutes ago, Bentonck said: I just had a 2nd mag failure on my Acclaim in about 100 hours. The first time I went to run up on the runway and the left mag was just dead. It was the cap and after a glue job it was fixed. I flew last week and after I got up to altitude and went to lean the engine the EGT went off the gauge on the G1000 and flashed the red x (#2 cylinder) and the engine started misfiring. I had flown up to altitude through IMC and it was at night so I decided that a rich mixture and a quick landing were the order of the day and proceeded accordingly. I called my mechanic and he said it sounded like a mag (I thought it was likely a fuel issue) ... so they pulled the mags again, and off to the shop they went. They came back yesterday and were reinstalled and the plane is running again, weather is bad and it runs find on ground but am not going to fly (or likely tomorrow) but after this I am ready to try a electronic module in exchange for one of my mags. I have quoted it and will likely give it shot......the mags have not been friendly to me. I got my plane back from a 100hr three weeks ago and since picking it up it would not run lean at hardly at all......after much discussion it seems a consensus here that it's an ignition issue... we seem to have hijacked the FIKI thread but anyway... If youre looking at an electric module, I'd go the electro air route. It is more expensive but everysingle person thats done it has always had positive things to say, and they stated that there were benifits such us increased climb and speed. Here is an example https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=157543 Quote
carusoam Posted August 22, 2020 Report Posted August 22, 2020 11 hours ago, StevenL757 said: Yes. So far, heard good things about them in general, but no reports on how the IO550 platform does with them. I was waiting for your Pirep.... By the time I saw a Rocket with one, I thought surely there must be one IO550 with one... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
carusoam Posted August 22, 2020 Report Posted August 22, 2020 Benton, Do you have G1000 or JPI engine data you can download? Send to Savvy, click the share button, post link here... Something we can all learn from, I think... See if there were any hints in the prior flights before the mag went on hiatus... MS has some really good trained eyeballs... Best regards, -a- Quote
Bentonck Posted August 22, 2020 Report Posted August 22, 2020 I am going to get the electro air and will give a pirep once it's installed.....I have only heard good things and they make some heady claims regarding fuel flows. I have a G1000 but mine is not WAAS enabled so does not have the software version that supports engine logging. I have been in contact with Don's son Paulo to purchase the modules and install the WAAS enabled units and updated software that will let me download the engine data...I talkd to Mike over at Savvy and wanted to keep track on-line of the engine but I can't at the moment due to lousy software support. Sorry...I really wish I had the new units installed already. Quote
mike_elliott Posted August 22, 2020 Report Posted August 22, 2020 On 8/18/2020 at 6:08 PM, hypertech said: The TKS parts come from CAV. Parts haven't been an issue for me. Except that that stainless tube for the slinger is now $204. Its still better than the copper tube though. Had the privilege of replacing that at the last annual because the copper tube was broken off and looking through the logs, it has broken with some regularity. CAV says that the SS fixes the issue and it should last forever now. just dont have a stall strip fall off in flight. 1 Quote
Little Dipper Posted August 22, 2020 Report Posted August 22, 2020 I had known ice installed in 1997 when I bought my Ovation. Over the last 2,700 hours I had multiple pumps fail over the years and keep a spare pump on hand for that reason. I've lost a stall strip years ago which took a long while to replace. The stall strip had to be shipped over here from Europe and if I recall properly the strip cost 3K for the part. I wouldn't want to fly ifr in the winter in the North East without it. 1 Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.