Modern J Interior - Removing Back Seats

[PhateX1337]

New to me 77 J had a modern interior installed at Mooney factory in ‘07 (removed old bench seat then). Are these seats removable? What do the 2 black pull handles down by the fire extinguisher do? 
 

 

[elimansour]

Nice interior!! If it's similar to the late model J seats, they are removable.  The 2 latches are for reclining the backrest and you pull up on them to adjust.

To remove, you would take the seat cushions off, remove the back cover and fold the backs into the seat pan.  The late model POH has a good description.

[Mcstealth]

 @gsxrpilot

Question you can take

  

[elimansour]

This is from the POH

[gsxrpilot]

Yeah it's super easy. Thanks @Mcstealth

1. Remove the seat bottom cushions. They are only held in with some velcro and will come right out. 
2. Now reach under the seat back. There is a strip of velcro at the base of the seat back connecting the cushion front to the back. Disconnect that velcro.
3. Slide the seat back cushion up and off the seat back frame. 
4. Use the black T handle to fold the seat back down into the floor.
5. The black T handle can be used to adjust the angle of the back seat anytime. And might make it easier to do step 2 if you adjust the angle.

I figure I can remove both back seats in about 60 seconds and it takes 90 seconds to put them back in.

At 26 lbs for the total of the cushions, mine live mostly in the hangar. 

[PhateX1337]

Super helpful, thanks all! Will give it a shot next time I’m at the plane. I can’t believe those cushions are 26lbs total?!?! Insane.

PS - @gsxrpilot I also recently replaced my gma340 with pma450b based largely on your feedback that it helped a lot with random airframe feedback/noise - you were spot on, great upgrade and been really enjoying it. Thanks!

[laytonl]

The seat backs may be secured with “hair pin” clips.  Lee

[87-205SE]

My 87 205, unlike my 83 J that folded so easily, is plush and so thick that I finally gave up and just let the clubs have the seats.  Probably factory as SN 1 was probably factory and they wanted it to have a coach look.   

[Eduleo]

Somehow I can remove the seat bottoms (1986 J) and fold the seat backs down using the lever in the center. I can find the velcro under the seat backs and I can undo it. I cannot find a way to remove the seat back covers though. It appears to be glued. Am I missing a step somewhere? Did someone glue the foam onto the setback frame during an old reupholstery job?

Does anyone have a picture of how this looks in real life? The description in the POH is not helping me.

[kortopates]

3 hours ago, Eduleo said:

Somehow I can remove the seat bottoms (1986 J) and fold the seat backs down using the lever in the center. I can find the velcro under the seat backs and I can undo it. I cannot find a way to remove the seat back covers though. It appears to be glued. Am I missing a step somewhere? Did someone glue the foam onto the setback frame during an old reupholstery job?

Does anyone have a picture of how this looks in real life? The description in the POH is not helping me.

Its very possible a prior owner had or did some work to your rear seats that ended up altering your seat backs. Unless someone doing upholstery work on the bird fully understands how the seats are designed they are very likely to take shortcuts. I found my seat backs had screws to hold them place - it was just a economy route someone took. To fully restore my rear seats to be fully functional in beautiful leather I sent them off to AeroComfort and he fixed them properly to be fully easily removable again. You may be in a similar situation when you break through the glue and find more seat back issues. But you should be able to undo the hidden velcro at the base of the seat back and slip the seat cover up for removal revealing the aluminum seat back pan.

[gsxrpilot]

5 hours ago, Eduleo said:

Somehow I can remove the seat bottoms (1986 J) and fold the seat backs down using the lever in the center. I can find the velcro under the seat backs and I can undo it. I cannot find a way to remove the seat back covers though. It appears to be glued. Am I missing a step somewhere? Did someone glue the foam onto the setback frame during an old reupholstery job?

Does anyone have a picture of how this looks in real life? The description in the POH is not helping me.

BTW... it's not just the "seat back cover" that comes off. It's the cover with the cushion. The whole thing slides up off the seat frame leaving just a metal frame with a piece of carpet on the back. I find that I have to tilt the seat back to get at the velcro and then tilt the seat forward to lift the cushion up and off.

[PT20J]

9 hours ago, Eduleo said:

Somehow I can remove the seat bottoms (1986 J) and fold the seat backs down using the lever in the center. I can find the velcro under the seat backs and I can undo it. I cannot find a way to remove the seat back covers though. It appears to be glued. Am I missing a step somewhere? Did someone glue the foam onto the setback frame during an old reupholstery job?

Does anyone have a picture of how this looks in real life? The description in the POH is not helping me.

I had the same problem until I finally figured it out. Pull up on the seat back T handle and pull forward on the seat back until it rotates forward freely so you can work on it. Undo the velcro. Then, run your fingers around the opening at the bottom that was closed by the velcro and work the edges of the opening wider so that you can pull the upholstery and cushion (they are glued together) off the frame. 

There is one last step in Paul's @gsxrpilot instructions if you are going to put any significant weight on the seat back once folded down. Remove the hitch pin Lee @laytonl mentioned and pull the frame off the arms. Then replace it into sockets in the frame that are nearest the carpeted top. This allows the frame to fold down fully into the seat well.

The POH instructions reproduced by @elimansour are factually correct, but only made sense to me after about half an hour of fooling around in the airplane and trying things and rereading them and trying something else.

Skip

[PhateX1337]

So a follow-up to this thread ... I finally got around to removing the seat backs. It was very difficult to remove the seat back cushion from the aluminum frame, but eventually I was able to get it off. What's left in the plane is the aluminum seat back frame folded down into the seat well - each seat back frame is held on by 1 hitch pin as mentioned above.

 

The question ... do you guys remove that hitch pin & seat back frame as well, or just leave it folded into the seat well? It seems like it might just be easier going forward to pull the hitch pin on each seatback and just remove the entire seatback frame + cushion rather than fighting friction between carpeted pieces to remove the cushion from the seatback frame.

[N205S]

40 minutes ago, PhateX1337 said:

So a follow-up to this thread ... I finally got around to removing the seat backs. It was very difficult to remove the seat back cushion from the aluminum frame, but eventually I was able to get it off. What's left in the plane is the aluminum seat back frame folded down into the seat well - each seat back frame is held on by 1 hitch pin as mentioned above.

 

The question ... do you guys remove that hitch pin & seat back frame as well, or just leave it folded into the seat well? It seems like it might just be easier going forward to pull the hitch pin on each seatback and just remove the entire seatback frame + cushion rather than fighting friction between carpeted pieces to remove the cushion from the seatback frame.

I leave mine folded since it aligns with the rest of the baggage area. Pic attached. 
 

Does yours not lay flat?

[PhateX1337]

It doesn't quite lay that perfectly flat no - will add pics when I'm out at the hangar again this weekend

[PT20J]

2 hours ago, PhateX1337 said:

It doesn't quite lay that perfectly flat no - will add pics when I'm out at the hangar again this weekend

Did you remove the hitch pin and remove the frame and reinsert it in the sockets nearest the carpeted side and then reinsert the hitch pin?

[PhateX1337]

9 minutes ago, PT20J said:

Did you remove the hitch pin and remove the frame and reinsert it in the sockets nearest the carpeted side and then reinsert the hitch pin?

Now I think I understand what you're saying - there are different sockets for it, different from the ones that make it a reclining seatback. I didn't move the frame into a different set of sockets - will check that when I head out tomorrow. Thank you!

[gsxrpilot]

4 hours ago, PhateX1337 said:

The question ... do you guys remove that hitch pin & seat back frame as well, or just leave it folded into the seat well? It seems like it might just be easier going forward to pull the hitch pin on each seatback and just remove the entire seatback frame + cushion rather than fighting friction between carpeted pieces to remove the cushion from the seatback frame.

No, don't remove the seat back frame. I think maybe something is wrong with yours or out of adjustment or something.

In my plane, the seat back cushions slide on and off the frames very easily. I find that if I position the seat backs vertical or slightly forward, they come off easier. Then the seat back frames, with the piece of carpet attached, drop flush into the floor. I even find that I can tuck the seat belts down into the seat wells beneath the seat back frames when folded down. It makes for a nice, flat, floor space. This is the way my plane is most of the time.

I find the whole process to take about 90 seconds to take the seats out and about 120 seconds to put them in. This is one of the best features of the late model J's and K's.

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

No, don't remove the seat back frame. I think maybe something is wrong with yours or out of adjustment or something.

In my plane, the seat back cushions slide on and off the frames very easily. I find that if I position the seat backs vertical or slightly forward, they come off easier. Then the seat back frames, with the piece of carpet attached, drop flush into the floor. I even find that I can tuck the seat belts down into the seat wells beneath the seat back frames when folded down. It makes for a nice, flat, floor space. This is the way my plane is most of the time.

I find the whole process to take about 90 seconds to take the seats out and about 120 seconds to put them in. This is one of the best features of the late model J's and K's.

But to get the seat frames to lay flat, you really need to remove them and replace them with the arms in the alternate sockets.

[gsxrpilot]

56 minutes ago, PT20J said:

But to get the seat frames to lay flat, you really need to remove them and replace them with the arms in the alternate sockets.

This is interesting and a bit confusing to me. I'm headed back out to the airport in a few minutes and will take a look. I might take some pictures or video to show how mine work. But I've never done the "pull seat frame from pivot rods..."

But I'll take a closer look. I'm curious...

[PhateX1337]

1 minute ago, gsxrpilot said:

This is interesting and a bit confusing to me. I'm headed back out to the airport in a few minutes and will take a look. I might take some pictures or video to show how mine work. But I've never done the "pull seat frame from pivot rods..."

But I'll take a closer look. I'm curious...

Does that mean you have an Encore back in your possession now?!?

[gsxrpilot]

Just now, PhateX1337 said:

Does that mean you have an Encore back in your possession now?!?

No... The wife and I flew (SWA) to Austin this weekend so she could visit family and I could look in on the Mooney. It's still a few weeks away from being done. 

[PT20J]

11 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

This is interesting and a bit confusing to me. I'm headed back out to the airport in a few minutes and will take a look. I might take some pictures or video to show how mine work. But I've never done the "pull seat frame from pivot rods..."

But I'll take a closer look. I'm curious...

Mooney could have saved us all a lot of trouble by illustrating this. It took me a lot of fiddling around to finally figure it out. Once you get it, the instructions make sense, but without sitting in the plane and trying things, it was clear as mud. 

Skip

[PhateX1337]

12 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

No... The wife and I flew (SWA) to Austin this weekend so she could visit family and I could look in on the Mooney. It's still a few weeks away from being done. 

Ah man I got excited for a second there. Let us know what you find out - I'll do the same with pictures/videos tomorrow on my bird as well.

[Oldguy]

44 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

This is interesting and a bit confusing to me. I'm headed back out to the airport in a few minutes and will take a look. I might take some pictures or video to show how mine work. But I've never done the "pull seat frame from pivot rods..."

But I'll take a closer look. I'm curious...

 

On 7/19/2020 at 8:37 PM, elimansour said:

This is from the POH

 

I think the key to the confusion can be solved by looking at the date the manual was issued on an earlier post in the thread. 1-96 Since he said his plane had a new interior installed by the factory in 2007, it likely has this newer mechanism. We older mid bodies have the quick on-and-off seat backs. The only difficulty is when someone forgets to undo the velcro at the bottom of the seat back.