New Garmin GI275 think round G5's

[tigers2007]

Their ad is cryptic in whether or not I can dump the vacuum pump:
“As your primary flight reference instrument, GI 275 features an integrated display to support all the essential readouts — attitude, altitude, airspeed and heading.”
Doesn’t mention it have an asterisk noting what instruments are required.


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[tigers2007]

Out of interest - what is the labor quote for installing your two G5s? (or is it mixed in with the GFC500?) For two 275s interfaced to my Century one avionics expert today said to expect 40 hours.  That sounds about 30 hours more than I expected.  
EDIT: seems 30 hours labor for a dual G5 install is actually fairly standard

There’s no free lunch here. An Aspen E5 with ACU and EA100 (plus interface box for the C2b) is about 9 AMU’s. I was quoted $7500 for an E5 installed w/C2b autopilot wired in if I supplied the EA100 and ACU (both can be had used for $1400-1900).
A pair of GI-275’s will exceed 13 AMU’s. The AI and HSI’s (with a/p interface) are $4689 from Sarasota thus $9378 PLUS installation.
The more I look into Garmin’s “breakthrough” the more I lose enthusiasm.


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[aviatoreb]

10 minutes ago, tigers2007 said:

 

There’s no free lunch here. An Aspen E5 with ACU and EA100 (plus interface box for the C2b) is about 9 AMU’s. I was quoted $7500 for an E5 installed w/C2b autopilot wired in if I supplied the EA100 and ACU (both can be had used for $1400-1900).
A pair of GI-275’s will exceed 13 AMU’s. The AI and HSI’s (with a/p interface) are $4689 from Sarasota thus $9378 PLUS installation.
The more I look into Garmin’s “breakthrough” the more I lose enthusiasm.


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Right - I too am a bit cooled of since yesterdays excitement - somehow it seems like $8500 yesterday plus almost a plug and play.  I bet it will be less expensive to install than an aspen, but still.  I would guess we would be 12k all in installed out the door.

But I am going to hold on until this thing does one of the critical things I would want it to do, which is to be a stepping stone to GFC500.  One thing I have learned is never buy and install anything into your airplane with the promise that it will have a feature later as a selling point as to why to buy the thing.  Next quarter is aviation sales speak for "I dunno" - although these days Garmin more than any other company seems able to quickly follow up their promises with actual; STCs. But I will not install anything until the unit is capable of exactly what I would be buying it for.  In this case an interim device to drive my current KFC200 autopilot, that could then be a stepping stone to GFC500.

Otherwise, AVP30 looks good.

[tmo]

Am I reading this right that if I want both the HSI and AI to interface with the AP I need to pay an extra $1k for each?  Or do they talk to each other and one talks to the AP?

[Yetti]

14 hours ago, jetdriven said:

I was told by the Dynon rep at OSH that a full skyview with autopilot and ADSb is over 30k.  Only their certified installation shop can do the work and it’s a complete package for the most part. So cheaper than Garmin but not by much.  I have a quote for a g3x touch and GFC500 for 40k

Only Certified shops or someone with an IA.  To meet the STC you have to install the back up D10A and the minimum equipment including the STC for $2,000.00   Mine has been installed under the IA Option.   I have spent about $14K so far.  To solve primary engine monitoring, EFIS, Flight planning, ADSB-out, Annunciation (It actually says "arriving at destination")  VFR Synthetic vision, VFR mapping and the D10A backup AI.   When Dynon finishes the Autopilot install for the Mooney, it would be $750*3  servos = $550.00 for the A/P panel.     To replace my steam gauges with a 10 inch monitor would be $4300.00.   Someone was thoughtful and pre wired for the bigger screen.  So cut, plug and play.

Assuming my time is free.

The best advice I could give is that it is not an instrument replacement effort, but more of reconfigure the whole plane for g1000 type environment.

 

[MIm20c]

1 minute ago, tmo said:

Am I reading this right that if I want both the HSI and AI to interface with the AP I need to pay an extra $1k for each?  Or do they talk to each other and one talks to the AP?

The attitude based AP would need one output from the upgraded AI. That $1k upgrade is just replacing the need for an ea100 or gad43. The rest of the communication to other devices does not need that attitude information. As far as I know the 275 does not require a gad 29b or D/A converter et al to talk with navigators or AP’s. 

[MIm20c]

Garmin mentioned the 275 used for txi backup. However, it seems ideal for a g3x backup. It would allow the g3x to be used with a legacy AP with no additional equipment besides a pre select. It’s also nice to be able to use it as an additional mfd/traffic screen when a secondary is not needed.  My guess the mfd screen would not be available with the g3x but using it as a backup/driving the AP should work.  

Edited January 16, 2020 by MIm20c

[tmo]

Wouldn't technically the G3X be the backup?

[Yetti]

Just now, MIm20c said:

Garmin mentioned the 275 used for txi backup. However, it seems ideal for a g3x backup. It would allow the g3x to be used with a legacy AP with no additional equipment besides a pre select. 

One thing to consider is do you want your redundancy to be completely stand alone.   From the aspect of one system taking out the bu system.   When you start integrating BU and Primary you start increasing risks.

[Yetti]

The other way to think about it is parallel systems

[MIm20c]

13 minutes ago, Yetti said:

One thing to consider is do you want your redundancy to be completely stand alone.   From the aspect of one system taking out the bu system.   When you start integrating BU and Primary you start increasing risks.

Agree, but my guess is the 275 and esi500 are probably the most reliable AI’s on the market.  The g3x / 275 combo would probably be the most resistant with the g5 being a little too similar. 

Edited January 16, 2020 by MIm20c

[Yetti]

Just now, MIm20c said:

Agree, but my guess is the 275 and esi500 are probably  the most reliable AI’s on the market. 

Said Reddit just prior to the second AWS failure.    Netflix adopted a "design to fail" mentality that Says hey things are going to fail, why not plan for it and recover gracefully.   They even went so far as to create a chaos monkey that randomly shuts stuff off.

[MIm20c]

49 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

Right - I too am a bit cooled of since yesterdays excitement - somehow it seems like $8500 yesterday plus almost a plug and play.  I bet it will be less expensive to install than an aspen, but still.  I would guess we would be 12k all in installed out the door.

But I am going to hold on until this thing does one of the critical things I would want it to do, which is to be a stepping stone to GFC500.  One thing I have learned is never buy and install anything into your airplane with the promise that it will have a feature later as a selling point as to why to buy the thing.  Next quarter is aviation sales speak for "I dunno" - although these days Garmin more than any other company seems able to quickly follow up their promises with actual; STCs. But I will not install anything until the unit is capable of exactly what I would be buying it for.  In this case an interim device to drive my current KFC200 autopilot, that could then be a stepping stone to GFC500.

Otherwise, AVP30 looks good.

I would think your perfect stepping stone would be replacing the 525 hsi with a g5. That would be a perfect stepping stone for the gfc500 especially since you just overhauled the 256. If down the road you need to replace just the AI and still want your old AP the 275 will work perfectly for you. 
 

However, as much as I like my aspen hsi, I’d be tempted to keep the 525 if you already have gpss. By replacing the 256 you could add SV and drop the vac. I think the display looks amazing. 

[chriscalandro]

I think I'll still stick with the AV30 when it's ready

[LANCECASPER]

10 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

Agree, but my guess is the 275 and esi500 are probably  the most reliable AI’s on the market. 

When I think of reliable I think of tried-and-true, proven. The ESI500 yes, but the 275 doesn't have one hour in an end-user's airplane in the field yet.

[MIm20c]

Just now, LANCECASPER said:

When I think of reliable I think of tried-and-true, proven. The ESI500 yes, but the 275 doesn't have one hour in an end-user's airplane in the field yet.

But when you compare a startup company with a clean sheet design to a unit probably based off the G500/txi software/hardware with thousands of hours real word testing and the best quality control and support...there’s a HUGE difference. 

[OR75]

Century II and III not on the list is a big non functional miss in my opinion 

Everything else is cosmetics 

[aviatoreb]

59 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

I would think your perfect stepping stone would be replacing the 525 hsi with a g5. That would be a perfect stepping stone for the gfc500 especially since you just overhauled the 256. If down the road you need to replace just the AI and still want your old AP the 275 will work perfectly for you. 
 

However, as much as I like my aspen hsi, I’d be tempted to keep the 525 if you already have gpss. By replacing the 256 you could add SV and drop the vac. I think the display looks amazing. 

Huh - that is quite a good thought.

So I wonder if that would work.... would a GI275 drive the KFC200 autopilot in convert with a G5 HSI? Would a GI275+G5HSI be enough to hardware to drive a GFC500?

[Marauder]

2 hours ago, tigers2007 said:

The more I look into Garmin’s “breakthrough” the more I lose enthusiasm.


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If you are a stock holder of Garmin, this is a "breakthrough". It is another way Garmin has figured out to separate you from your money.

[Marauder]

When I think of reliable I think of tried-and-true, proven. The ESI500 yes, but the 275 doesn't have one hour in an end-user's airplane in the field yet.

I love my ESI-500. It's a solid unit and with the Nav & magnetometer added, it does everything a self contained AI should do and more.

 

[johncuyle]

Interesting product.  The round form factor must have been a difficult choice.  It seems like a better fit for legacy panels but a worse choice for forward looking upgrades.  My 231 panel is pretty much original except for CGR-30s.  I'm not sure that the Garmin EIS for the GI 275 is actually sufficient for a 231(I don't think the EIS setup for the G3X could show enough of the necessary information to actually be primary replacement for all the original gauges) but the CGR-30s can, and are cheaper, so I sort of always figured if I got my ideal panel I'd have a pair of round displays for engine data anyway. 

The Garmin's backup battery makes it attractive for EIS since you have an extra hour to get it on the ground before you can no longer differentiate between not enough power to climb, climb power, and blow up the engine power, but the price is not really competitive with the CGRs.  (ATTN: EI, if you design a standalone backup battery that works with a CGR pair, doesn't weigh too much, is vaguely reasonably priced, and can be retrofit into existing installs, I'll buy it next time my panel is apart.)  I had figured that my dream panel would look something like a 10" G3X with a 7" G3X co-pilot display (now an option!) with a pair of G5 backups, and my CGRs.  Now it looks like a pair of these instead of the G5s.  The symmetry advocate in me likes the idea of a pair of round gauges on either side of the central display, though the practical pilot figures it would be better to have the G3X on the left, the CGR pair to its right, and the backup GI 275s to the right of those (to minimize the scan area if I lose the G3X and also to allow easier manipulation of the GI 275s with my right hand, and also to put them closer to the right seat in case we lose both G3X screens.) Seems like round fits better in my current panel but square would be preferable for a future panel.  Wonder if I can just cram a pair of 7" G3Xs into the area of eight of the ten round holes.  (Pretty sure the tape measure says no, I'm hopeful that I'm just incompetent at measuring, though.)

[MBDiagMan]

19 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

Are you suggesting these are rebranded av30s in disguise?  If you aren’t... now I am wondering anyway... maybe they are?  Otherwise they are a avp30 “knock off” in quotes since they did it better and faster.

Not suggesting that at all.  The AV30 does appear to compete with this product and they HAVE been held up by the FAA for a very long time.  Coincidence?  Don’t know.

[Baker Avionics]

On 1/15/2020 at 6:54 AM, LANCECASPER said:

All Avidyne will have to do is test it, do the paperwork and add it to their STC, just like they did with the GTX345 and the G5.

@PTK can you believe these guys TOTALLY putting down your Garmin stuff this way?  You had better get in on this and set them straight!!!!  LOL

[201Mooniac]

3 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

Huh - that is quite a good thought.

So I wonder if that would work.... would a GI275 drive the KFC200 autopilot in convert with a G5 HSI? Would a GI275+G5HSI be enough to hardware to drive a GFC500?

I do believe that this will work out just fine and yes, it should also drive a GFC-500 as all that really needs is the G5.  When the 275 gets GFC-500 support later this year, it isn't clear if it will provide failover of the GFC control from the G5 or not

[aviatoreb]

39 minutes ago, MBDiagMan said:

Not suggesting that at all.  The AV30 does appear to compete with this product and they HAVE been held up by the FAA for a very long time.  Coincidence?  Don’t know.

I agree - I had thought myself that perhaps they were the same last night and was asking if you had the same idea. I agree with you this is not the same at all.  Other than it fills the same hole - literally in the panel - and figuratively in terms of market place.