Any Information on Blackbird Aviation??

[ValkyrieRider]

I am considering signing up to allow Blackbird Aviation lease out my aircraft, but have ZERO experience with this.  Talking with the gentleman that contacted me, it sounds like a real win/win situation, but I am looking for input from anyone that has any knowledge about it.

 

[pwnel]

16 minutes ago, ValkyrieRider said:

I am considering signing up to allow Blackbird Aviation lease out my aircraft, but have ZERO experience with this.  Talking with the gentleman that contacted me, it sounds like a real win/win situation, but I am looking for input from anyone that has any knowledge about it.

 

Interested to see what aircraft they go for.  I see lots of tupperware.... the Mooney experience is different.  I'll also never let a non-M20K pilot fly mine. Insurance needs  500hrs total, 100hrs retract, 25h on type.  And insurance may very well block you from doing this.  

Interested in whether I can monetize my Com license through them though.... 

Edited October 7, 2019 by pwnel

[Oldguy]

24 minutes ago, ValkyrieRider said:

I am considering signing up to allow Blackbird Aviation lease out my aircraft, but have ZERO experience with this.  Talking with the gentleman that contacted me, it sounds like a real win/win situation, but I am looking for input from anyone that has any knowledge about it.

 

Seriously check insurance costs and keep in mind the associated costs to go from an annual inspection to a 100-hour inspection.

I had a Cessna 172 used as the leaseback plane for an instructor and was happy until he decided to get his own. My $4,500/year insurance (you did see it was a 172?) became quite expensive to have for casual renters. Plus I ended up with a lot of hard usage on it.

[Niko182]

1 hour ago, ValkyrieRider said:

I am considering signing up to allow Blackbird Aviation lease out my aircraft, but have ZERO experience with this.  Talking with the gentleman that contacted me, it sounds like a real win/win situation, but I am looking for input from anyone that has any knowledge about it.

 

The momment you start renting out you lose the advantage of owning. Then you get to enjoy having the disadvantages of owning and the disadvantages of renting all together. You pay the price of ownership while the plane comes back a little different every time. People that are going to fly it dont have that same appreciation for that plane than you do.

[EricJ]

If all your regulations move from Part 91 to Part 135 you may have to go back and make certain that all relevant Service Bulletins and STCs are brought up to speed for Part 135 operation.  Many things that are optional under Part 91 are required under Part 135, and it may be a fair amount of work to research what may be missing and bring it up to current.  You may also have to make certain that your maintainer (A&P) is okay with the relevant drug testing, etc., required with maintaining Part 135 airplanes.   There are a LOT of changes in maintenance requirements beyond just adding 100-hour inspections.

There was a similar outfit kept calling about my airplane.   I let them know that they'd contacted me illegally since my number is on the Do Not Call list and we had no prior business relationship, and told them to lose my info.   Haven't heard back. 

 

 

[Steve W]

[ragedracer1977]

3 hours ago, EricJ said:

If all your regulations move from Part 91 to Part 135 you may have to go back and make certain that all relevant Service Bulletins and STCs are brought up to speed for Part 135 operation.  Many things that are optional under Part 91 are required under Part 135, and it may be a fair amount of work to research what may be missing and bring it up to current.  You may also have to make certain that your maintainer (A&P) is okay with the relevant drug testing, etc., required with maintaining Part 135 airplanes.   There are a LOT of changes in maintenance requirements beyond just adding 100-hour inspections.

There was a similar outfit kept calling about my airplane.   I let them know that they'd contacted me illegally since my number is on the Do Not Call list and we had no prior business relationship, and told them to lose my info.   Haven't heard back. 

 

 

Aircrafty ..

They're talking to your neighbor with the Comanche.  All said and done, he would "profit" about $35 an hour.

[kortopates]

Aircrafty ..
They're talking to your neighbor with the Comanche.  All said and done, he would "profit" about $35 an hour.

I don’t buy that for a second, unless we’re talking about a GA pilot owner doing it illegally without a FAA part 135 operation plan that includes the commercial insurance premiums. Only an existing charter company that is trying to reduce their positioning flight cost with some additional revenue is going to be able to do without personally subsidizing Blackbird profits. Without meeting all the $ requirements of a Part 135 operator such a pilot won’t have a nickel to there name after something goes wrong and they find themselves uninsured and facing charges from the FAA for operating illegally.
Read the Blackbird terms and you’ll see they provide nothing and make you entirely responsible for the operation.


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[N9405V]

All I have to say is that it will be operated at “Full Rental Power” more than you’d like.


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[tigers2007]

Yikes I'd install a G-meter/logger to see how many hard landings the gear will endure after the renters have their way with it. 

[ValkyrieRider]

5 hours ago, ragedracer1977 said:

Aircrafty ..

They're talking to your neighbor with the Comanche.  All said and done, he would "profit" about $35 an hour.

I understand that they already have signed one M20C at KDVT.  

I appreciate all of the comments to this point, especially the concern about insurance and additional maintenance requirements.

I obviously didn't seek out the company, but received a call and decided to listen to the proposal.  It sounds enticing as I would ensure that my bird was flying, even when I am not able to take time to go up.  I though the revenue generated could offset some of the fixed costs - but hadn't considered any additional costs that would be associated with renting.  They state that all of the pilots that fly it will be commercial pilots that would respect the plane, but even in my head I realize they will never treat it the way I would.  

I understand that they have been operational in California for about two years, so was hoping to hear from someone that may have some firsthand knowledge - as well as advice.

THANKS

[Steve W]

I think it's interesting that the FAA Document on Illegal Charters does pretty much everything except call out Blackbird by name.

https://www.faa.gov/news/illegal_charter_operations/

I figure as an aircraft owner you're probably fairly safe if you can afford the 100 hour and enough insurance to protect yourself(how much does a 2 million smooth commercial policy run these days)

On the other hand if you're wanting to be a pilot, I fully expect you'll be having a not so nice chat with the local FSDO once the FAA gets their legal ducks in a row.

[tigers2007]

13 minutes ago, ValkyrieRider said:

They state that all of the pilots that fly it will be commercial pilots

What kind of operation do they run? Do they sell time-building packages to hour-hungry commercial pilots? Or 100% flight training as CFI's are "commercial pilots"?

[ChrisV]

It looks like Blackbird is a startup "charter" service app that that gets around the "charter" label by using pilots that are not connected to the aircraft.  From the blackbird pilot FAQ "

Can I fly my own plane?

In order to maintain the lease requirements, pilot and aircraft must be separate—You won’t be able to fly your own aircraft.

From the FAA's illegal charter article:  Illegal charters can take a variety of forms including but not limited to: companies that don't have the required certificates; use aircraft that are not on their FAA-authorized aircraft list; use unqualified pilots; offer ride-sharing; try to transfer operational control of the flight to the customer; operate under one rule when they are required to operate under a different rule; and when the customer and the company act in concert to sign a lease that doesn't include crewmembers, but the company then directs the customer to use a specific flight crew.  

Seems pretty clear to me AND dangerous.  If I were a pilot with them, I couldn't fly my own plane that I am very familiar with, but I could fly one that I have never flown.  

[EricJ]

8 hours ago, ValkyrieRider said:

I understand that they already have signed one M20C at KDVT.  

I wonder if that's the one that just started parking outside at the north hangars.    I'd never seen it out there until last weekend.

How are "rental" pilots even going to get in and out of the ramp?   DVT is one of the more locked-down GA airports, where you need your access card to get *out*.  

[ragedracer1977]

2 hours ago, EricJ said:

I wonder if that's the one that just started parking outside at the north hangars.    I'd never seen it out there until last weekend.

How are "rental" pilots even going to get in and out of the ramp?   DVT is one of the more locked-down GA airports, where you need your access card to get *out*.  

The Comanche guy said they'd already negotiated airside access with Ed Faron.

[carusoam]

A few questions come to mind...

1) why would you do this?

2) what are the costs?

3) what happens when something goes awry?

4) Do you have anything to lose?

Worst case?  An accident occurs using your plane... a line of lawyers forms at your front door... a second line of reporters forms...

There is a part of life when something sounds too good to be true...

a brief read of Blackbird details is possibly one of those things..?

https://privatejetcardcomparisons.com/2019/03/27/blackbird-just-raised-10-million-to-be-the-uber-of-private-flying-heres-what-i-learned-from-reading-the-fine-print-with-an-aviation-attorney/

 

The thing that keeps many of our aviation goals in check is the cost of insurance.... followed by cost of maintenance...

This system adds the cost of understanding the law... get your attorney ready, you are going to want him on your team...

Sounds like you get to trade a few dollars per hour for a ton of liability...

Try out the app to set up a flight with known inputs... select your type of plane, select your type of pilot, fill your seats with your type of passengers and see where reality starts to kick in...

Leave a seat open... see if an aviation attorney tries to join you on your flight..? 

what could possibly go wrong? (Make your own list)

PP thoughts only, not a lawyer, leaser, or commercial pilot...

Best regards,

-a-

[EricJ]

5 hours ago, ragedracer1977 said:

The Comanche guy said they'd already negotiated airside access with Ed Faron.

I wonder what that looks like.   They gonna make everybody watch the vid?   If not, we can all go back and ask why we had to watch it.

Something smills feshy to me.

[Niko182]

Its a cool idea, but in the end the faa is going to have a really nice lawsuit. 

[bonal]

Hey dude can I ride your motorcycle...end of discussion 

[ValkyrieRider]

12 hours ago, EricJ said:

I wonder if that's the one that just started parking outside at the north hangars.    I'd never seen it out there until last weekend.

How are "rental" pilots even going to get in and out of the ramp?   DVT is one of the more locked-down GA airports, where you need your access card to get *out*.  

Great question, I am not sure how the key card access would work??  I would suppose they would have to apply to DVT Admin to be approved?  

I know I just met a Mooney pilot that flies between CHD and DVT that parks his mooney in covered on the south side, but I am pretty sure he doesn't rent his out.

[ValkyrieRider]

3 hours ago, bonal said:

Hey dude can I ride your motorcycle...end of discussion 

At first read my initial thought was ... no, I don't let people ride my bike because it is too big for many riders, and I don't know their skills.  THEN - I realized, you may have used a play on words to get me thinking ... if I am nervous of loaning my bike out, how much more should I be nervous of loaning my plane out?  THANKS.

[ValkyrieRider]

5 hours ago, carusoam said:

A few questions come to mind...

1) why would you do this?

2) what are the costs?

3) what happens when something goes awry?

4) Do you have anything to lose?

Worst case?  An accident occurs using your plane... a line of lawyers forms at your front door... a second line of reporters forms...

There is a part of life when something sounds too good to be true...

a brief read of Blackbird details is possibly one of those things..?

https://privatejetcardcomparisons.com/2019/03/27/blackbird-just-raised-10-million-to-be-the-uber-of-private-flying-heres-what-i-learned-from-reading-the-fine-print-with-an-aviation-attorney/

 

The thing that keeps many of our aviation goals in check is the cost of insurance.... followed by cost of maintenance...

This system adds the cost of understanding the law... get your attorney ready, you are going to want him on your team...

Sounds like you get to trade a few dollars per hour for a ton of liability...

Try out the app to set up a flight with known inputs... select your type of plane, select your type of pilot, fill your seats with your type of passengers and see where reality starts to kick in...

Leave a seat open... see if an aviation attorney tries to join you on your flight..? 

what could possibly go wrong? (Make your own list)

PP thoughts only, not a lawyer, leaser, or commercial pilot...

Best regards,

-a-

@carusoam Very well thought out.  You are 100% correct, it did sound good prior to reading many of these comments ... which I why I came to you guys.  

1.  The ability to ensure your plane flies 10 hours a month, regardless of my schedule.

2.  Use the extra money to pay the fixed costs.

3.  Without paying the fixed costs, I can use my saved AMUs to upgrade even further.

4.  I would have access to my plane anytime I wanted ... as long as it isn't already pre-booked.  

Thank you for your input and thought.

[carusoam]

MS helps your thought process...

I doubt I’m 100% correct...

Thanks for the kind words. 

Best regards,

-a-

[jonhop]

Thanks for the topic @ValkyrieRider. I too was curious to MooneySpacer's thoughts as I received an AirCrafty postcard at home and BlackBird has emailed me three times in the past week referencing my tail number. Both AirCrafty and BlackBird's websites are sparse with little to no information.

On 10/8/2019 at 1:30 PM, carusoam said:

https://privatejetcardcomparisons.com/2019/03/27/blackbird-just-raised-10-million-to-be-the-uber-of-private-flying-heres-what-i-learned-from-reading-the-fine-print-with-an-aviation-attorney/

Thanks for this post, would've hated to read a 10K word terms of service on a mobile device but this provided an excellent summary. Looks like I'll wait to see...