What adsb garmin Gtx-345r, or remote or wait?

[aaronk25]

Hoping someone can offer some advice. Got a 77j with a garmin 650 and a old kt-74, transponder. Just got a quote from the avionics shop for $6,500 bucks to install my choice of either remote mount transponder and use the 650 transponder page to enter sqwak code or slide the gtx-645r in the old spot.

 

Hard part is I’d really like the new trutrack auto pilot and/or the Dynon efis. I have a century 3 autopilot mostly rebuilt, but would really like the new features that newer autopilots have.

 

So the Dynon/true track options makes the most sense for the price, but if I wait it may be a long time for approval, right? If I go that route I’d want to use Dynon hardware for adsb compliance. Or so I blow the money on the garmin transponder now?

 

Just curious what your thoughts are. I know a lot more about the plane than I do avionics packagers some I hoping someone can steer me in what makes the most practical sense.

 

Thanks!

 

Aaron

 

 

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[donkaye]

Last week I had the pleasure of flying the GFC 500 in the J model.  Smooth as silk.  You really want it, even if  you don't know it, yet.  I have the GTX 335 tied into the GTN 750 and GTN 650.  I had the space so I didn't get the remote (the GTX 345 wasn't out when I did my upgrade).  I haven't used the controls or the functions on the 335 but a few times.  You'll pick up some panel space going the remote, so I would recommend going that route.

[MIm20c]

If you’re fairly sure the Dynon system is in your future I’d just get a adsb out right now. You should be able to get a used 330es for $2.5k installed.  The Dynon adsb in will cost around $1k so the extra $3k could go towards the AP.

[Guitarmaster]

This^^^. Or throw a tail beacon on it for now.

 

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[gsxrpilot]

I really like having a remote transponder. It's not something that gets or needs much attention during a flight. And so I'm glad it's not taking up panel space. 

[hypertech]

The only caveat with a remote is that the bluetooth connection for your tablet comes from the device in the back and some people have connectivity issues with it.  I have the remote and don't have that problem.  I am very happy with the remote but I'm also controlling it from a 750 with a bigger screen so having a button dedicated to it is nbd.  

Do you have a second GPS?  If not, I'd think a bit about the GNX 375.  Two is one and one is none.  With the GNX 375 if something happened to the 650, you could still fly an rnav approach and it gives you ads-b in and out too.

[Bob - S50]

I can think of two disadvantages of getting the remote.

1.  If you GTN dies for some reason, you lose control of your transponder.

2.  If you use the remote GTX, the squawk is set in the lower right corner of the GTN650, under the frequency display.  If you use the panel mount, that same location on your GTN650 can be used for something else.  For example, when we install our GFC500 in 2 weeks, we will use the lower right corner of the map area to display a 'flight plan' button for quick access to the flight plan.  One touch rather than two.  In the spot that the remote GTX uses to set the squawk we'll put a button for the Map page.  One touch back to the map no matter what page we are on.  Can't do that with the remote version of the GTX.

If those don't matter to you, and you are trying to save panel space, by all means get the remote.

[aaronk25]

The only caveat with a remote is that the bluetooth connection for your tablet comes from the device in the back and some people have connectivity issues with it.  I have the remote and don't have that problem.  I am very happy with the remote but I'm also controlling it from a 750 with a bigger screen so having a button dedicated to it is nbd.  
Do you have a second GPS?  If not, I'd think a bit about the GNX 375.  Two is one and one is none.  With the GNX 375 if something happened to the 650, you could still fly an rnav approach and it gives you ads-b in and out too.

Just got a older 396 battery back up with xm weather,


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[aaronk25]

I can think of two disadvantages of getting the remote.
1.  If you GTN dies for some reason, you lose control of your transponder.
2.  If you use the remote GTX, the squawk is set in the lower right corner of the GTN650, under the frequency display.  If you use the panel mount, that same location on your GTN650 can be used for something else.  For example, when we install our GFC500 in 2 weeks, we will use the lower right corner of the map area to display a 'flight plan' button for quick access to the flight plan.  One touch rather than two.  In the spot that the remote GTX uses to set the squawk we'll put a button for the Map page.  One touch back to the map no matter what page we are on.  Can't do that with the remote version of the GTX.
If those don't matter to you, and you are trying to save panel space, by all means get the remote.

Very well thought out. I’m on the fence but I think the panel mount might be advantageous for the reasons you mentioned.


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[gsxrpilot]

Just now, Bob - S50 said:

I can think of two disadvantages of getting the remote.

1.  If you GTN dies for some reason, you lose control of your transponder.

2.  If you use the remote GTX, the squawk is set in the lower right corner of the GTN650, under the frequency display.  If you use the panel mount, that same location on your GTN650 can be used for something else.  For example, when we install our GFC500 in 2 weeks, we will use the lower right corner of the map area to display a 'flight plan' button for quick access to the flight plan.  One touch rather than two.  In the spot that the remote GTX uses to set the squawk we'll put a button for the Map page.  One touch back to the map no matter what page we are on.  Can't do that with the remote version of the GTX.

If those don't matter to you, and you are trying to save panel space, by all means get the remote.

Both are good points and well worth consideration. Here was my thought process. YMMV.

1. Typically if you lose the head unit, the squawk remains the same so the transponder is still functioning, I just can't change the squawk. If I'm squawking 1200 for the flight, it's no issue. If I'm on a discreet code, I'll inform ATC and they'll work with me. If the GPS is dead, I'm not likely to be taking off in that condition, and if I am, it would be a short VFR flight to go get it fixed  And also, I'm betting that the failure of such solid state electronics will be very rare, unless of a full electrical failure in which case the transponder goes with it anyway.

2. I can't speak to the GTN as I have the IFD540. But I'd likely agree that a larger screen GPS makes it a bit easier to manage a remote unit. Also the Avidyne units are quite a bit more flexible when it comes to organizing the screen and the controls. I had my transponder controls in about three different locations before I settled on where I have them now. 

Just my $0.02 on my preference, and just a mild preference 

[kris_adams]

Depends a little on what your short-term goal is...Is your current transponder inop?  Are you looking for ADSB Out or In/Out?

I have a 79J and I think our panels are similar...as far as remote vs panel, I'm going with the remote tied back to a 750 but I'd do it with a 650 as well.  I pretty much set the squawk and if it's a busy day I have to hit ident (lol)...other than that I rarely touch it until I land so remote works for me.  Maybe 1x or 2x a year I have to change my code mid flight but that's pretty unusual for where I fly at least. 

Now one of my goals is tidying up the panel.  In fact I'm removing a 2 year old kt74 that is already ADSB out for the remote 345.

If you're really want to wait on dynon grab one of the tail mount or other super cheap ADSB options if that's your short term need then do everything when you do the entire panel.

-KA

[kortopates]

My stack includes both a GTN750 & 650 and when I had this decision to make I still went with GTX-345 panel mount. I really wanted to put it in the avionics bay to clean up the panel, but didn't simply because of all the reported bluetooth connectivity issues reported here in Mooney's.  And I don't even need the bluetooth connectivity to the 345 on ordinary flights because my primary connection is to the FS-510 which gives me everything including ADHRS from my G500 to my ipad. But I wanted the GTX-345 connection as backup connection for ADHRS data in the very remote possibility of losing G500 ADHRS. Its not even my first level of backup, its  my 2nd backup since my first real backup is the panel LSI-500. But I didn't want to risk losing bluetooth connectivity to it in the back after hearing about numerous people complaining about intermittent connectivity. Most definitely I would have gone with the avionics bay remote mount if I could be guaranteed I would have the same reliable bluetooth connectivity but there are no guarantees. 

Also despite not needing it, I have still have the ability control the 345 from both the 750 & 650. I don't really see a problem with a loss of  real estate on the 650 either.  Probably because  I run my 650 in the default nav page exclusively. From that page, the flight plan page is one touch away by touching the active waypoint. All the important features are as well including OBS and CDI functions. My 750 provides the moving map, since the 650 is the wrong unit for a moving map IMO. Even flying with students where we typically only have the smaller 650, we still keep the 650 on the default nav page for the nav data fields and we'll use the ipad for the moving map situational awareness. That enable using the GPS's nav data fields to fly instruments with precision. (Even most of the rental fleet I teach in these days comes with a GTN 650, most have upgraded from the older GNS boxes, and many even now have the GFC500, yet most of the vintage mooney's I fly in including the early J's still don't have a IFR GPS or WAAS, but every pilot flys with an iPad)  

I am based under a busy TRACON so I often do change transponder codes in flight and personally it really doesn't matter which way the code gets inputted in. But if I had a single GPS go out with a remoted 345 I doubt I would feel that compelled to fly it till I got that fixed anyway. With a single GTN, I'd expect such a failure to most likely also take my main comm and nav radio as well.  Just say-in as that failure mode doesn't apply to my dual GTN panel.

Edited September 19, 2019 by kortopates

[LANCECASPER]

On 9/18/2019 at 11:29 PM, aaronk25 said:

Hoping someone can offer some advice. Got a 77j with a garmin 650 and a old kt-74, transponder.

If you have a KT-74 Transponder, you have extended squitter (1090) and the Garmin 650 is an approved position source, so if those two aren't hooked up, that's all you have to do to get ADS-B out.

 

If your transponder has been in there for decades, then it's probably a KT-76 or 76A. The KT-74 is still sort of a slide in solution for that, plus running the wires from the GTN650 to the transponder.

I put in an Avidyne AXP transponder originbally for an ADS-B out solution (same as the KT-74 - both made by Trig), but on a recent upgrade went with the Garmin GTX-345 - much better transponder, and it's ADS-B in/out. Since I used an Avidyne navigator I had to go with the panel GTX-345 which I had plenty of room for.

 

 

[aaronk25]

If you have a KT-74 Transponder, you have extended squitter (1090) and the Garmin 650 is an approved position source, so if those two aren't hooked up, that's all you have to do to get ADS-B out.

 
If your transponder has been in there for decades, then it's probably a KT-76 or 76A. The KT-74 is still sort of a slide in solution for that, plus running the wires from the GTN650 to the transponder.

I put in an Avidyne AXP transponder originbally for an ADS-B out solution (same as the KT-74 - both made by Trig), but on a recent upgrade went with the Garmin GTX-345 - much better transponder, and it's ADS-B in/out. Since I used an Avidyne navigator I had to go with the panel GTX-345 which I had plenty of room for.
 
 

Thanks for clarifying for me. I got the old one with knobs! Apologies, I could of swore it was a 74 but defiantly not. Met with the avionics shop and were doing the 345r panel mount so the Bluetooth works hopefully! Thank you,.

Aaron


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[LANCECASPER]

You won't regret the 345 (the 345r is the remote). Mine has been rock solid.

[carusoam]

Lance, you are really on top of the details tonight! 

Thanks for clarifying so well.

Best regards,

-a-

[Aerodon]

I'm removing a GTX345 to install a 345R to create panel space.  If my GTN goes down, I'm pretty much grounded until its repaired anyway.

I think a 33ES is a viable ADSB out solution for anyone who has a GTN or GNS480 to control it.  Paired with a GDL52 or 52R, you get everything, including XM weather and music in.

I have two extra 33ES's for $1500 each.  Complete with connectors, and wiring harness if you want (extra).

 

Don