Don’t Cross Red!

[M016576]

Redacted.

Edited August 7, 2019 by M016576

[MIm20c]

I don’t feel safe walking to my mailbox anymore...in my boxers.  Cameras are everywhere

Someone tell the stiff next to the plane to be careful not to scratch that amazing paint job. 

Edited August 3, 2019 by MIm20c

[M016576]

4 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

I don’t feel safe walking to my mailbox anymore...in my boxers.  Cameras are everywhere

Someone tell the stiff next to the plane to be careful not to scratch that amazing paint job. 

Some context is probably required here.  There is a big red line that surrounds military jet parking at joint use and Air Force  bases.  It essentially marks the restricted access area. There are security forces personnel that guard that red line 24/7 to ensure only approved personnel have access to the fighter jets and equipment.  

Crossing that line is a big no-no, unless you have specific access.  A ground clearance alone is not considered “adequate” to meet the security standards.

[cliffy]

I guess this guy crossed the red line also?  :-)

 

 

 

[M016576]

5 hours ago, cliffy said:

I guess this guy crossed the red line also?  :-)

 

 

 

Yes- exactly

[RogueOne]

That’s unfortunate.  Hopefully only a good story to tell when he gets back from his adventure.  

[M20F]

8 hours ago, M016576 said:

Oh man... one of my friends sent me this picture from this morning @Bob_Belville....

i know your mooney looks really really fast.  But I must say- it’s not as fast as an F-15C!

Seriously though- my friend said that ground kind of baited you into crossing the red line.

Nice of you to make a post of other people’s troubles.  Nothing to learn here.  Maybe it was the ground controllers fault.  Maybe it was Bob’s.  I don’t know but seems a bit of a jerk move.  I am sure it wasn’t enjoyable for Bob. 

[201er]

You mean to tell me they didn't just come out to admire Bob's exquisite Mooney and eye catching paint job?

[M016576]

1 hour ago, M20F said:

Nice of you to make a post of other people’s troubles.  Nothing to learn here.  Maybe it was the ground controllers fault.  Maybe it was Bob’s.  I don’t know but seems a bit of a jerk move.  I am sure it wasn’t enjoyable for Bob. 

You’re correct- I re-read my post.... I intended it to be well meant “ribbing”... but you’re absolutely correct- it does come off as very much a “jerk” or “troll” move.

no offense was meant, and I apologize for the way I came off.

[RogueOne]

I learned something here.  Could of happened to me.  Whenever I have come across a fighter on the ramp in travels it has been coned or cordoned off.  Thanks for the education, albeit at Bob’s expense.  I look forward to hearing the story if he wishes to tell it.

[Yooper Rocketman]

I had that happen at night a long time ago (over 20 years ago) in Madison, WI, transporting a kidney transplant patient for his long awaited kidney.  There were snow banks from a recent pounding of snow covering the taxiway identification signs.  I landed on 18, knew I needed to turn left to get to the FBO, but missed the correct taxiway (tower was closed).  My patient was asking me a million questions too, excited about his medical procedure he was about to have (distracting to say the least).  As I taxied up I figured out I was going to the "Guard Ramp".  So there's my dilemma; turn around and just barely cross the line (saw no one in the area) or shut down and turn the plane around by hand (I'm sure that would have looked a ton more suspicious).  I completed a tight turn and headed to the proper taxiway.

So as my patient is leaving for his kidney transplant, I get airport security, National Guard security, and god knows, maybe local cops (it was a long time ago, I don't specifically remember, just seemed like I had done something REALLY BAD) showing up for the questioning, at 2 AM on a dead airport.  After about 10 minutes all involved accepted I wasn't intending to steel a fighter jet or do damage to U.S. Government Property and they let me go on my merry way.  Oh ya..... I filed a NASA Report when I got home.

SO what should one do when they don't have a reverse lever, but have not crossed the line yet and have insufficient room to complete a 180 without crossing it?  Technically, my tires DID NOT cross the line, only my wing did.  Shut down and get out and hand move the plane?  Seems a little radical to me.

Tom

[Bravoman]

Along time ago I crossed the customs line near the self-serve at Saint Augustine airport. It was before I really knew what it was. I got yelled at pretty good too.

[cliffy]

Some smaller airports with commuter  airline service AND TSA have only a box painted on the ramp next to the terminal (yellow lines). That is the Security Zone for the TSA service, One can not cross that box when an airliner is on the ground (by foot or vehicle). Its treated just like going out the terminal door at a big airport when you're not supposed to. Depending on the airport it may be crossed when no airliner is around. 

[Cyril Gibb]

20 hours ago, cliffy said:

I guess this guy crossed the red line also?  :-)

 

 

 

Am I the only person who’s a bit surprised at the lack of security at an airbase with a pile of F18s present?  Are there many unattended airbases where you could just walk to F18s without anyone noticing? 

[toto]

19 minutes ago, Cyril Gibb said:

Am I the only person who’s a bit surprised at the lack of security at an airbase with a pile of F18s present?  Are there many unattended airbases where you could just walk to F18s without anyone noticing? 

My impression was that they had crashed the gate at the base - probably one of those wooden bar things. They were both high on meth, and the driver had above-overdose levels, so the thinking was that he may have swallowed a bag before driving so the police wouldn't get it. 

In any case, they probably would have been hard to stop with anything less than a physical barrier. 

Kind of surprising that they didn't have a more serious physical barrier - even one of those pointy stop strip things - at the entrance. But since they were crazy high on drugs, they may have just driven straight through a perimeter fence. Dunno. 

In any case, both the driver and passenger died after hitting the F18. 

[cliffy]

NOPE you're not the only one who though of that. I'll bet the Base Commander was replaced after this incident due to lack of security. 

[RogueOne]

43 minutes ago, Cyril Gibb said:

Am I the only person who’s a bit surprised at the lack of security at an airbase with a pile of F18s present?  Are there many unattended airbases where you could just walk to F18s without anyone noticing? 

This is super disturbing.  The lack of security on an active air base is criminal.  I hope that there were MAJOR reviews of the ineptitude involved here that ultimately resulted in changes being made to minimize the likelihood of such an event.  WHERE the HELL was base security during this event?  Someone’s...MULTIPLE individuals careers were likely ruined by this shitshow.  Just a massive face palm.

Edited August 4, 2019 by RogueOne

[M016576]

27 minutes ago, toto said:

My impression was that they had crashed the gate at the base - probably one of those wooden bar things. They were both high on meth, and the driver had above-overdose levels, so the thinking was that he may have swallowed a bag before driving so the police wouldn't get it. 

In any case, they probably would have been hard to stop with anything less than a physical barrier. 

Kind of surprising that they didn't have a more serious physical barrier - even one of those pointy stop strip things - at the entrance. But since they were crazy high on drugs, they may have just driven straight through a perimeter fence. Dunno. 

In any case, both the driver and passenger died after hitting the F18. 

This is correct.

As for the security- for anyone that’s been to NAS Lemoore- you’ll know that the flight line side of the base is about 7 miles removed from the “administration” side- and is surrounded by government owned, sub-let farmers fields.  These give a pretty clear view of anyone approaching.

the base itself is surrounded by fences and each road is blocked by manned gates with barriers, but those are located outside the farmers fields.  This particular “gate crasher” did crash through the back gate in their car.  I’m fairly certain that the fences and gates have been improved since this incident. But it just goes to show you what a little determination and a lot of meth can do.

Edited August 4, 2019 by M016576

[kmyfm20s]

45 minutes ago, Cyril Gibb said:

Am I the only person who’s a bit surprised at the lack of security at an airbase with a pile of F18s present?  Are there many unattended airbases where you could just walk to F18s without anyone noticing? 

A disappointing lack of security, really pathetic!

[EricJ]

I was an Air Force military brat long, long ago, and rode my bike on the flight line in front of base ops at one assignment many times.     In those days there were quite a few ways in, and at that particular (stateside) assignment it seemed like it wasn't too much of a deal.     This was at a TAC base (kinda tells ya how along ago that was).   We also lived on a SAC base and I knew better than to try it there. 

 

[bradp]

 Those security guys are just lucky that Nancy wasn’t flying with Bob this time.  She would have given them what-for. 

[ZuluZulu]

Just for the record, I, too, prefer that people not publicly post evidence of my myriad mistakes on here without talking to me first.

[Guest]

On 8/4/2019 at 11:30 AM, Cyril Gibb said:

Am I the only person who’s a bit surprised at the lack of security at an airbase with a pile of F18s present?  Are there many unattended airbases where you could just walk to F18s without anyone noticing? 

Cyril,

Wouldn’t they be surprised to find a Mooney parked there and an F-18 missing?

Clarence

[flight2000]

Most dual use airports will have a red line separating the military and civilian ramps - where the ramp changes from asphalt to concrete is the "line" at KLMT.  If you've never been to one before, this can be a severe gotcha type moment.  If ground sends you the wrong way by accident and it's a dead end into the mil ramp, it makes it even worse.  Took these shots at Klamath Falls, OR a few years ago and you can see the entire squadron of F15's sitting there on the ramp as you taxi by.  Could you walk right over to them....yep.  But I'd bet there are eyes on those aircraft 24/7/365...and then you'll wish you didn't want to play touch the F15....

I disagree with one of the posts above that said you can't learn from this type of post.  Yes, it was painful for Bob to go through, hopefully he just got a talking to and after some back and forth was let go, but there is a teaching moment there for those that have never been to an airport like this before.  Fortunately, most Air Guard and Army NG bases have their military ramps squirreled away from the GA side so these types of incidents fairly infrequent.  Just know where your going ahead of time is the lesson and have those airport diagrams handy.  KLMT's restricted area is pretty well marked on the apt diagram.

Cheers,

Brian

[flight2000]

Forgot to add that you can also see the big yellow box that TSA uses to mark their security area that @cliffy mentioned earlier in the thread.  It's the smaller concrete pad right next to the squadrons ramp. 

Brian