jaylw314 Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 So I've been experimenting with keeping full nose up elevator trim while taxiing. I've been worried about missing this, and I finally missed it this weekend. Weirdly, my POH checklist has setting the elevator trim on the runup checklist rather than the takeoff checklist. I had just refueled, so I didn't do my complete runup checklist, and it was super cold here (well, for Oregon anyway), which contributed to my distraction. This led to the rather surprising sudden and premature nose rotation and stall warning. Luckily I reacted fast enough, but that was certainly not an outcome I was looking for. After cleaning out my underwear and kicking myself, I figure at the very least I need to move setting the elevator trim to my takeoff checklist rather than my runup checklist. More importantly, I need to make a note to add cold weather to my list of potential distractions that are worth slowing down for... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLCarter Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 Good save. What is your reason for full up trim for taxi? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m20kmooney Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 3 hours ago, jaylw314 said: So I've been experimenting with keeping full nose up elevator trim while taxiing. I've been worried about missing this, and I finally missed it this weekend. Weirdly, my POH checklist has setting the elevator trim on the runup checklist rather than the takeoff checklist. I’d stop experimenting and follow the checklist. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eman1200 Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 So I've been experimenting with keeping full nose up elevator trim while taxiing..... Um, why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 I have experimented with trim. The Mooney is flyable in any flight regime with any trim setting. Sometimes you are pushing or pulling pretty hard, but it can be done. Not true with larger aitctaft. Much easier to fly with the trim in the right place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 (edited) That's once. You will probably forget to reset the trim one more time. Then you will become quite religious about checking the trim several times to make sure it is set right. On start up, on runup, just driving down the taxiway, driving to the airport, in your sleep. Sure it is still flyable, but the Oh I just could have died tends to leave an impression. Leaves quite an impression don't it? Edited February 13, 2019 by Yetti 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steingar Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 Left in landing trim and flaps once. Look up from securing the gear and I'm three mph away from a departure stall. Fun times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 8 minutes ago, steingar said: Left in landing trim and flaps once. Look up from securing the gear and I'm three mph away from a departure stall. Fun times. Good reason to wait to put the gear up until you have some altitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 Better is not to look at the gear handle while stowing it. There's no need to look, it's always in the same place, and only goes one direction. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 Before shutting down I put the trim back in T/O position so I don't miss it next time, I just verify it on the pre-takeoff checklist. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 My trim indicator is not accurate enough to rely on for indicating exact trim settings. I almost always land full flaps and of course reset them before shutdown, but leave trim where it is. I found that if I give it 4-5 full strokes of down trim on my trim wheel this gets me in the ballpark for takeoff. I did that a couple of times before shutdown but then couldn’t remember if I had done it and then gave more nose down trim which was quickly realized on takeoff. It is now part of my pre-takeoff checklist. Full up elevator by the yoke may be indicated in certain situations but I don’t see any benefit to put in full up nose trim before taxi, and the OP has described a potential complication of doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 16 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said: I do the same, Lance. Works well for me. Jim Ditto for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midlifeflyer Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 1 hour ago, eman1200 said: Um, why? A lot of us are curious about that one. WAG - to see the efficacy of a final check if the typical after landing reset trim checklist item is missed? If that's the case, yeah, it should probably be part of a final short list of before takeoff items apart from the run up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 I do the same with as the other guys but ,also, I normally wipe down the leading edges on storage (you know, fresh bugs are easier to get off- juicy) and during that process I seem to always look at the tail and can tell if it was not reset. T/O testing with all sorts on configs are good to know so you can react quicker when you are caught off guard. I have done the trim testing but also Speed Brakes UP/deployed testing. The plane will climb with them up, not as well with them stowed but at least I can recognize that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M20F-1968 Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 I like to do things that I can when the work load is low. The work load is lowest just before I start the plane or just after I have started it and am waiting for it to warm up a bit (it is now winter in Boston). At that time, I just scan the instrument panel (without the checklist) and adjust trim, put in take-off flaps, set frequencies if radios are on, etc... The when I taxi, do a run-up etc... use the checklist so at that point I am just checking things just set, or setting things I have not touched yet. I find it much more relaxed to do many things while sitting in the plane next to my hangar. Then go on to the usual stuff in the usual way. Redundancy is a word often used in aviation. John Breda 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooneyflyer Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 Does TRIM UP have any effect while taxiing? News to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Peace Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 6 hours ago, jaylw314 said: So I've been experimenting with keeping full nose up elevator trim while taxiing. I've been worried about missing this, and I finally missed it this weekend. I had just refueled, so I didn't do my complete runup checklist, I need to move setting the elevator trim to my takeoff checklist rather than my runup checklist. Oy Vey There is so much wrong with the above but how can you write it all down here..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Peace Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 1 hour ago, LANCECASPER said: Before shutting down I put the trim back in T/O position so I don't miss it next time, I just verify it on the pre-takeoff checklist. Good practice....we put the trim to a middle of the road number after landing in my airline operation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob - S50 Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 I'm with most of the others. After landing, part of my flow is to set the trim for takeoff, which by the way, is not in the takeoff band. We've found that with just people in the front seat we need just a little more nose up trim than the top of the takeoff band. Before takeoff I do my 1, 2, 3, 4. One on the floor (fuel selector set). Two on the pedestal (flaps and trim set). Three on the engine controls (cowl flaps open, mixture set, prop full forward). Four electrical switches (lights, pitot heat, boost pump, electric trim) as needed. After landing I do 4, 3, 2, 1. Same items, reverse order. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orionflt Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 I keep my trim full forward and run it full forward after every landing, If i were to forget to set my trim for take off it keeps my nose down and the extra force required to bring the nose up is a key indicator the trim is not set. as previously stated you can still overpower the trim to get the airplane in the air if you want, but it prevents you from lifting off before the plane is ready to truly fly. a couple other reason i keep the trim fwd is the trim gauge is inaccurate so I know how many turns of the wheel from full forward i need to be at takeoff trim and it take the load off the bungee springs when the plane is sitting. Brian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 There are threads on fixing the trim and flaps indicator. Seems like an important piece of equipment 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaylw314 Posted February 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 A couple people were wondering why the full nose up trim. This had come up in a previous thread, but I can't recall where. Our ramp and taxiways are pretty rough and bouncy, and I've been trying to keep as much weight as possible off the nose while taxiing. The nose up trim makes pulling the yoke all the way back much easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skydvrboy Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 I had my own similar bonehead mistake that I'll share. My process was to set trim after landing and then only verify trim with the checklist before takeoff. I had been flying solo, so I set the trim a bit nose up after landing. My next flight I had two passengers (450 lbs.) who both wanted to sit in the back. Checklist said "Trim," I looked and said "Set," and off we went. Quite the surprise when I took off at a very low airspeed with the stall horn blaring. PUSH DOWN, PUSH DOWN!!! Now when I check my trim before takeoff, I visualize my CG and set the trim accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolter Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 I did the same thing departing OSH this year. Mix of distractions and non-standard operations leading to my own carelessness. Due to the long taxi on rough grass at OSH, I had the trim max back. I think my nose rose faster than @jaylw314 did in his video, so I was reacting sooner. I was correctly trimmed before the mains left the ground. Lesson (re-)learned about distractions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tangogawd Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 C.I.G.A.R.S. I fly many types of planes.... and the "last guy" probably didn't reset anything. This has kept me from getting into too much trouble....... and has worked from everything from the little taylorcraft to the learjet. Run your approved checklist at the appropriate time, for this is just a mental check, and most times, especially when I change plane types, I'll run it 2 or even 3 times as I taxi and line up. C- controls free and correct I- Instruments set G- gas on and appropriate tank A- Attitude ..... Flaps and trims set R- radios set (& GPS) S- Seatbelts and switches (lights, arm spoilers, wing/inlet heat, etc) These things will at least let you takeoff, and get some altitude before you have to figure something out. Hopefully without annoying ATC too much. and if nothing else, enter the pattern and land to shut that cabin door that was forgotten about! And good on ya Jay..... you instinctively followed rule number 1! FLY THE DAMN AIRPLANE! 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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