O-360 Fuel & Oil Lines

[Hank]

Just put my plane in for annual, and my new IA says I need new fuel & oil lines. They were replaced during overhaul in 2002 by the previous owner, no idea what brand and it's an hour's drive to find out. But they are reported to be rock hard. I'd rather replace them before they start to crack.

Any leads on good prices for fire-sleeved lines would be appreciated. In stock would be nice, but I can wait a few days if the price is right. I took my Sevice Manual with the plane, but do have a digital copy of both Service and Parts. Guess I need to start looking up part numbers for reference.

Thanks! This annual is the other reason that I missed the Alabama Lunch on Saturday . . . . . 

Hope to be back in the air soon!

[bonal]

Check with Lake Aero, a couple of annuals ago my oil lines needed replaced and they just pulled them off the shelf. Don't recall what they cost didn't matter it needed it so just got it done. One nice thing about doing my annual there is that there is almost never a delay for needed parts.

[Prior owner]

Unfortunately, here is no good price anywhere for hoses....I have searched and called everywhere. Aircraft Spruce has a service with an online order form and they get them out quick. They were the lowest price I could find for fire sleeved hoses. You can read the metal information band on each hose and order from that.

[Marauder]

Just put my plane in for annual, and my new IA says I need new fuel & oil lines. They were replaced during overhaul in 2002 by the previous owner, no idea what brand and it's an hour's drive to find out. But they are reported to be rock hard. I'd rather replace them before they start to crack.
Any leads on good prices for fire-sleeved lines would be appreciated. In stock would be nice, but I can wait a few days if the price is right. I took my Sevice Manual with the plane, but do have a digital copy of both Service and Parts. Guess I need to start looking up part numbers for reference.
Thanks! This annual is the other reason that I missed the Alabama Lunch on Saturday . . . . . 
Hope to be back in the air soon!

Hank - these are the guys Lasar buys from. They can provide any of the hoses you will need. Easy to work with and got me what I needed quickly.

http://www.aircrafthose.com


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[Guest]

4 hours ago, Hank said:

Just put my plane in for annual, and my new IA says I need new fuel & oil lines. They were replaced during overhaul in 2002 by the previous owner, no idea what brand and it's an hour's drive to find out. But they are reported to be rock hard. I'd rather replace them before they start to crack.

Any leads on good prices for fire-sleeved lines would be appreciated. In stock would be nice, but I can wait a few days if the price is right. I took my Sevice Manual with the plane, but do have a digital copy of both Service and Parts. Guess I need to start looking up part numbers for reference.

Thanks! This annual is the other reason that I missed the Alabama Lunch on Saturday . . . . . 

Hope to be back in the air soon!

Try Gee Bee, he gave me pricing on a set for a Cirrus which is better than anyone else I’ve priced them from.

Clarence

[carusoam]

@GEE-BEE posted a couple of pics a few days ago...

See if he has some hose pics specific to this conversation...

Best regards,

-a-

[cliffy]

Don't A&Ps make up hoses anymore? 

1 special tool per hose size (actually the right size AN union and drill bit work fine also), a die grinder and a couple end wrenches. Buy the hose and fire sleeve by the foot. Buy new AN fittings or you can reuse the old ones if in good shape. Slide the sleeve on with a safety wire cinch at each end. I made low pressure hoses up 50 years ago. Had to learn how in A&P school. 

Never had a failure. My oil cooler hoses are just now ready for change after my last make up a few years ago. 

[Andy95W]

4 minutes ago, cliffy said:

Don't A&Ps make up hoses anymore? 

1 special tool per hose size (actually the right size AN union and drill bit work fine also), a die grinder and a couple end wrenches. Buy the hose and fire sleeve by the foot. Buy new AN fittings or you can reuse the old ones if in good shape. Slide the sleeve on with a safety wire cinch at each end. I made low pressure hoses up 50 years ago. Had to learn how in A&P school. 

Never had a failure. My oil cooler hoses are just now ready for change after my last make up a few years ago. 

+1

[cliffy]

http://www.eaavideo.org/detail/video/4470821001/aeroquip-hose-end-fabrication-removal?autoStart=true&q=Brian Carpenter&sort_by=PLAYS_TOTAL:DESC

[Prior owner]

I could be wrong, but it seems that there really isn’t such a thing as a low pressure hose for engin oil anymore. As stated above, it’s an easy task to make one if you have the proper mandrel. 

Perhaps nobody wants the liability involved with making a hose that might go uninspected for another 20 years?

Edited January 29, 2019 by PilotCoyote

[cliffy]

I consider it low pressure as opposed to high pressure (3000 psi to 10,000 psi) hyd systems I've worked on. In reality its medium pressure hose. Sorry if I confused anyone. 

Black rubber Aeroquip hose has a life span of about 7 years before it needs replacing. IIRC

[Andy95W]

8 hours ago, PilotCoyote said:

 

Perhaps nobody wants the liability involved with making a hose that might go uninspected for another 20 years?

That's exactly what I think as well.

25 years ago, mechanics at local airports were making hoses and overhauling engines regularly.  Now, almost never.  Old mechanics are dying off or retiring, and liability exposure scares everyone else.

[Hank]

8 hours ago, cliffy said:

Black rubber Aeroquip hose has a life span of about 7 years before it needs replacing. IIRC

So I've done good to get 16 years from mine?

[Prior owner]

27 minutes ago, Hank said:So I've done good to get 16 years from mine?

Yes, I believe that you have done very well!

Apparently, the subject of hose life has been a hot topic at IA refresher courses, as more than a few IA’s I have spoken to will not sign off an annual on an aircraft that has hoses older than 5-8 yrs. No doubt they leave the course having hose bursting nightmares.

Not good for me as I have a remote oil filter and that means more ho$e$. I think setting a flat 5 year life span is wasteful and complete overkill.

IMHO the Teflon lines hoses should be good for at least 10 years, provided they don’t see severe service, but I’m not an IA....

 

[jetdriven]

what does the Mooney Service manual say about hose life?

[Yetti]

PHT in Tulsa.  given your serial number and a credit card.  The fancy brown ones set was 1.1AMU several years ago.   What y'all don't have your own mandrel set?   I figured it gave me some street cred with the grumpy IA.

[kerry]

I just had my oil hoses made up.  New fittings, fire sleeved for $280 at Luky's hardware company in Burbank California.  They were recommended by my IA.  Very happy how they turned out.  

[cliffy]

Just curious what type hose they use. Aeroquip? I know of the store. They are probably quite a bit more flexible now.

Edited February 9, 2019 by cliffy
add verbage

[kerry]

I used stratoflex.  That's what my existing hoses were.

[PT20J]

+1 for PHT. Ashley Wilson was very helpful. OEM style hoses have 5 yr. life. I got PTFE hoses with crimped stainless fittings and molded on firesleves that have unlimited life. Just under $1K for complete set for M20J. The molded firesleves look nice and are smaller overall diameter, but are stiffer and a bit more difficult to install when you have a bend in the hose. I believe Guy @GEE-BEE also makes the same style hoses.  Compare prices. 

[Hank]

GeeBee will make a set, but he requires length between fittings for each.

I called www.aircrafthoses.com and LASAR; turns out they are Dan's supplier. Oops! Have a set coming; fuel lines firesleeved from firewall to pump to carb. $980-something for a full set of oil & fuel. Mine are quite stiff, dating from the PO's Signature overhaul in 2002. They needed make, model, year and serial number of the plane, and any modifcations to the engine (I have none).

This annual is with my 4th IA since buying the plane in 2007 (I moved once and had one independent IA retire), and he removed the rear oil plug for the first time since it was installed; he expected to find "a lot of junk" since it still had the manufacturer's seal on it, but we were both happy that he found nothing.

He also sounded surprised that my compressions are all still strong (c. 850 on the tach). She flies well and climbs nice in all but the hottest Alabama summer weather.

[PT20J]

49 minutes ago, Hank said:

This annual is with my 4th IA since buying the plane in 2007 (I moved once and had one independent IA retire), and he removed the rear oil plug for the first time since it was installed; he expected to find "a lot of junk" ...

You probably mean the oil suction screen. If you have an oil filter, most mechanics only pull it if metal is found in the filter. It’s a pain to get to and it’s a pretty coarse screen, so if there’s no metal in the filter, it’s pretty rare to find anything in the screen. Continentals have one too, but it’s internal and you can’t get to it. 

[Hank]

2 minutes ago, PT20J said:

You probably mean the oil suction screen. If you have an oil filter, most mechanics only pull it if metal is found in the filter. It’s a pain to get to and it’s a pretty coarse screen, so if there’s no metal in the filter, it’s pretty rare to find anything in the screen. Continentals have one too, but it’s internal and you can’t get to it. 

Yep, that's it. Couldn't think of the name while I was writing. He told me after the fact that he removed it because it had been on so long (since OH in 2002).

[Guest]

1 hour ago, PT20J said:

You probably mean the oil suction screen. If you have an oil filter, most mechanics only pull it if metal is found in the filter. It’s a pain to get to and it’s a pretty coarse screen, so if there’s no metal in the filter, it’s pretty rare to find anything in the screen. Continentals have one too, but it’s internal and you can’t get to it. 

The 360 series Continental engines installed in Mooney airframes do have a removable oil suction screen, there are other models as well.

See item 37.

Clarence

[PT20J]

24 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

The 360 series Continental engines installed in Mooney airframes do have a removable oil suction screen, there are other models as well.

Hey, thanks, Clarence. I didn’t know that. Now I know better. 

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