Rant: FBO introduced delays

[cujet]

As Director of Maintenance for a corporate flight department with multiple East Coast locations, and as a pilot/aircraft owner, I travel far more than most. Travel includes service center visits for various aircraft, hangar bases, to broken aircraft and on critical overseas trips and personal flights. 

One thing I've noticed is that certain FBO's are introducing enough in the way of delays, to make flying light aircraft non competitive with driving. Especially on shorter trips. For example, Atlantic Aviation at SJC (Saint Augustine, FL) requires rental car returns at the defunct airline terminal, where they then eventually pick you up and shuttle you to your aircraft. In much the same way as many European airports do. So instead of allowing the pilot to bring baggage and pets to the aircraft, they are required to go through multiple steps. Baggage/passengers/pets gets transfered once or twice, often including a bag-drag through the FBO. Add in $7.50 Avgas and $25+ per night parking on a federally funded closed runway and the verdict is in. GA is becoming rather impractical. When it takes an hour or more from arrival to aircraft on each end, an hour flight turns into 3, and at that point, the interstate is more attractive. 

These FBO's fail to understand one major reason for their existence. The use of aircraft to save time. 

God forbid we try to fly in and out of a presidential TFR. Clearing the FBO's TSA system often takes forever, and is truly the height of insanity. They check the bristles on your toothbrush for contaminates, yet you can clearly carry aboard your private aircraft nearly anything you want. 

[neilpilot]

Please, if you need to rant at least get your fact straight.  Atlantic at St Augustine isn't "$7.50 Avgas and $25+ per night parking", at least not for a Mooney.  You exaggerate the actual cost by 20%.  

Than's assuming you actually mean SGJ, and not SJC where their fuel is even less.  Certainly not cheap, but $5.99 is a bit less than $7.50/gal last time I looked.

[Jim Peace]

Airlines suck as well....Took me 15 hours on Saturday to go from MEM to EWR, there was no weather.  Please don't ask I don't want to live that nightmare again.  I did get a bag of sun chips as a consolation and denied access to a first class lounge even though on a first class 1200 dollar ticket.

I have not experienced big delays with FBOs in recent history but I do know that at the big airports they are required to have TSA bullshit procedures that demand an extra charge.  

[FloridaMan]

I was really hoping Trump would have put someone in charge of the DOT/FAA who would go about enforcing these egregious violations of the CAA of 1938: https://www.faa.gov/airports/resources/publications/orders/compliance_5190_6/media/5190_6b_chap8.pdf 

I've been in and out of PBI for years and heard the stories about how Trump fought with the FBOs over fees and being overcharged for fuel and services. 

[steingar]

Anywhere stalls me they lose my business.  If a rental car is that bad I'll call up an Uber.  That said, I don't use my aircraft for travel anywhere near as much as I'd like, and no one save Mrs. Steingar dictates to me where I'll go.  Who the hell takes their pets on business trips anyway?

[FloridaMan]

23 minutes ago, steingar said:

Anywhere stalls me they lose my business.  If a rental car is that bad I'll call up an Uber.  That said, I don't use my aircraft for travel anywhere near as much as I'd like, and no one save Mrs. Steingar dictates to me where I'll go.  Who the hell takes their pets on business trips anyway?

There are guys with corporate jets that pay more for upholstery repairs from their dogs than I paid for my airplane. 

[Guest]

On 12/27/2018 at 2:59 PM, Antares said:

I was really hoping Trump would have put someone in charge of the DOT/FAA who would go about enforcing these egregious violations of the CAA of 1938: https://www.faa.gov/airports/resources/publications/orders/compliance_5190_6/media/5190_6b_chap8.pdf 

I've been in and out of PBI for years and heard the stories about how Trump fought with the FBOs over fees and being overcharged for fuel and services. 

His thoughts on fees are different now that you guys are picking up the tab.  Like so many politicians, promises made while campaigning are quickly forgotten once elected.  Perhaps if he spent less time tweeting, he’d have more time for doing.

Clarence

[bradp]

1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

His thoughts on fees are different now that you guys are picking up the tab.  Like so many politicians, promises made while campaigning are quickly forgotten once elected.  Perhaps if he spent less time tweeting, he’d have more time for doing.

Clarence

No Clarence the tweeting /keeps/ him from doing and we need that constant distraction to be able survive the next 2 years.  I mean honestly who f*s up foreign relations with Canada.    :-p

[FloridaMan]

[cujet]

On 12/27/2018 at 10:01 AM, neilpilot said:

Please, if you need to rant at least get your fact straight.  Atlantic at St Augustine isn't "$7.50 Avgas and $25+ per night parking", at least not for a Mooney.  You exaggerate the actual cost by 20%.  Than's assuming you actually mean SGJ, and not SJC where their fuel is even less.  Certainly not cheap, but $5.99 is a bit less than $7.50/gal last time I looked.

You are correct, I was only charged $6.40 for 100LL. And $25 per night. Along with my 1.3 hour delay. My mistake. 

[cujet]

On 12/27/2018 at 3:43 PM, Antares said:

There are guys with corporate jets that pay more for upholstery repairs from their dogs than I paid for my airplane. 

That would be us. 

[rainman]

My wife and I always travel with our small dog in our Mooney. We like having her with us, and it's really no additional expense. If I could just get her to wear oxygen.....

[ArtVandelay]

My wife and I always travel with our small dog in our Mooney. We like having her with us, and it's really no additional expense. If I could just get her to wear oxygen.....

Buy one of those cheap plastic space helmets ( less than $20), put it on her at home and see if she can get comfortable with it on, worst case is it will make for a funny video.

 

Tom

[bradp]

The funny thing is when FBOs treat little prop planes like crud and don’t realize that fleet managers and $MM of business decision making might be flying around in that little prop plane.  

[aviatoreb]

2 minutes ago, bradp said:

The funny thing is when FBOs treat little prop planes like crud and don’t realize that fleet managers and $MM of business decision making might be flying around in that little prop plane.  

...or just a very rich person working his/her way up to a jet.  Some FBO's clearly get that, and some don't.

[ilovecornfields]

7 hours ago, Antares said:

We went to a French B&B in Napa recently and I asked my wife if it was called The Maison Derrière? My son asked “what’s that?” Too bad he’s too young to watch this episode. It was one of the classics.

[M016576]

2 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

We went to a French B&B in Napa recently and I asked my wife if it was called The Maison Derrière? My son asked “what’s that?” Too bad he’s too young to watch this episode. It was one of the classics.

A French B&B in California Wine Country?  Either deep irony... or heresy... or perhaps the French have surrendered again?

[ilovecornfields]

4 hours ago, M016576 said:

A French B&B in California Wine Country?  Either deep irony... or heresy... or perhaps the French have surrendered again?

It was in Yountville which seems to have a French theme. I hear they even have a famous French themed laundermat there.

[Bravoman]

One of my home bases is SGJ as we have a home there. I think the problem is temporary and due to construction being done to Atlantic’s ramp. The problem doesn’t affect me since I’m hangared on the other side of the field and utilize the city self serve which is currently 3.99 gal.

[Vno]

I have had only great experiences in 2018 at FBOs.

Wilson Air Center - MEM; Sheltair - OCA; RaleighExec Jetport-TTA; Mckinley Air-CAK; Virginia Aviation-PVG; Lumberton Airport-LBT; Million Air-HPN; Punta Gorda-PGD; Columbia Air-RUT; Morse State Airport-DDH; Signature-BDL.

All treated me like I was their only customer, which at two I was, and provided exceptional service. I would recommend all of them.

Brian

 

[FloridaMan]

On 12/29/2018 at 12:49 PM, bradp said:

The funny thing is when FBOs treat little prop planes like crud and don’t realize that fleet managers and $MM of business decision making might be flying around in that little prop plane.  

I make sure to go to the rooftops and let every corporate operator know how bad one location or another treated me. It’s only happened once and that was at Landmark at RDU. It’s now Signature, but I still talk about it. 

[bradp]

TAC air at RDU has always been wonderful. One of the line guys I know is about to start at Sig RDU.  I’ll have to ask what the deal is up there. 

[FloridaMan]

4 hours ago, Vno said:

I have had only great experiences in 2018 at FBOs.

Wilson Air Center - MEM; Sheltair - OCA; RaleighExec Jetport-TTA; Mckinley Air-CAK; Virginia Aviation-PVG; Lumberton Airport-LBT; Million Air-HPN; Punta Gorda-PGD; Columbia Air-RUT; Morse State Airport-DDH; Signature-BDL.

All treated me like I was their only customer, which at two I was, and provided exceptional service. I would recommend all of them.

Brian

 

I’m in and out of Signature at KEYW all the time and while their fuel is a tad high, they’ve always been good to us and have gotten even better over the past couple of years. I still preferred Island Flying Service, which was there before them, but there’s also a chance that there are local politics squeezing their profits on things like fuel and overnights. For instance, I believe Sheltair only gets 20% of the hangar rent on the field here and is responsible for paying the utility bill. 

[FloridaMan]

Apparently a post of mine was edited or deleted and I was warned due to my accurate, objective and clearly representative opinion of an employee who was at Landmark at RDU. I annunciated in equally clear and colorful terms to them that we operate a Gulfstream 550, a 650, and several other corporate aircraft and would not be returning to that location with how I was treated in my Mooney. 

[cujet]

There is a very clear reason Sheltair SAV gets our G550's fuel/ramp business and not Signature SAV. It had everything with how I was treated, the willingness to provide fuel at a great cost and fantastic staff. The relationship has been superb and they go out of their way to avoid introducing a delay. Various other FBO's need some serious remedial training.

 

I don't need a fancy lobby and a babe at the front counter. I need to get through the gate and get going. What actually happens is that I end up waiting to pay my bill and waiting for a busy line guy to escort lowly 'ol me to my antique aeroplane. Thank God I had the presence of mind to ask for fuel 3 days earlier, otherwise I'd be waiting for that too. 

 

It's great that others have had perfect experiences everywhere they go. It could be that our needs are vastly different. I'm not that demanding jerk of a guy, as this is my world. But waiting 30 minutes for fuel at F45, when nothing is going on, and another 10 after fueling up, for the fuel truck driver to get the upload numbers to the front desk is, quite simply, bad behavior. 

 

Edited December 31, 2018 by cujet