Where to Find Replacement Exhaust?

[Rmollenkamp]

DISCLAIMER: I am a new Mooney owner.  I apologize in advance if this is a dumb question.  But, I need to put a new exhaust assembly on order for the upcoming annual on my 1961 C-model.  I can't seem to find the part number listed in the parts manual anywhere online.  Does anyone know who sells the new OEM part (I can't seem to find it on LASAR)?

Thanks!

[RLCarter]

You need a complete exhaust or just certain items?

[Rmollenkamp]

Complete exhaust.  The entire system is corroded out, so we need to replace it en masse.

[ArtVandelay]

Complete exhaust.  The entire system is corroded out, so we need to replace it en masse.

You can have them overhauled, they will rebuild it, all new, if just 1 piece can be used.

[RLCarter]

A complete exhaust is going to be spendy, buying used or having yours rebuilt might be a better option. You might also look into a PowerFlow exhaust system

[Yetti]

Many people find that rebuilding the old system is the way to go.   If the rebuilder uses at least one part say a flange, then they can call it rebuilt.

[Rmollenkamp]

Awesome!  Thanks for the input, y'all.  That's kind of what I figured.  But, I was hoping to be able to pre-order it to have it ready for the annual... but if my only option is PowerFlow, then I might need to just go with the re-build option.

[drapo]

For repairs, there is Dawley Aviation in Wisconsin or for a complete STC/PMA there is Knisley Welding in California. Didn't use them, but heard good reviews.

[MyNameIsNobody]

Happy with Dawley.  Just regret not having the J “rake” on my down tube...

[skydvrboy]

I used https://knisleyexhaust.com/mooney  when I had to replace mine at my last annual.  Kind of pricey, but about half the cost of a new power flow exhaust.  If you are bent on pre-ordering, you can get a discount here https://www.powerflowsystems.com/products.php?cat_id=5&pid=46, but you have to buy today.  How much is increasing your performance worth?

[Raptor05121]

There are two designs. The first is the dimpled muffler (Hanlon & Wilson) with the risers bolted together. It was superceded by a SB sometime in the 60s with a more-efficient design known as the slip-joint ribbed in which the risers are simply a friction fit and the dimples are replaced by ribs. You can't get the dimpled anymore, so your realistic choices are going with the newer-style ribbed or PowerFlow.



They cannot build new. They can only "rebuild". And as was explained to me, they simply take the measurements from your old one, recreate new parts, and then simply pull the old part number/data tag over and rivet it onto the new one an viola!

I sent my system off to Aerospace Welding Minneapolis (AWI) to just have the muffler done at a quoted $700, and you can view the prices HERE, but again they all have a core charge you will need. I do not know if they can accept the older design in lieu of the newer design. Doing simple math... its $4,317...minus the core charge comes in at $3,800. It seems their prices have risen, I was quoted $2,900 last year to redo my entire exhaust. I told them to return it and was planning on going PowerFlow for that price, but I managed to find a member here that pulled off a serviceable muffler when he upgraded to PowerFlow and I'm currently running that now.

Going through my logbooks it seems these completely new (read: rebuilt) systems only last about 5 years. I understand they are short exhausts and are subject to extreme heat, but you'd think they'd last longer.

If a couple hundred $$$ don't matter to you, I'd spring for the PowerFlow and call it done. There is some maintenance needed every so often (including complete removal, lubrication, and reassembly at annual, if I'm correct), but I'd consider the marginal performance and looks better than an OEM exhaust. I also believe the PF has a smaller muffler so more room in the cowling.
 

[Browncbr1]

1 hour ago, Raptor05121 said:

There are two designs. The first is the dimpled muffler (Hanlon & Wilson) with the risers bolted together. It was superceded by a SB sometime in the 60s with a more-efficient design known as the slip-joint ribbed in which the risers are simply a friction fit and the dimples are replaced by ribs. You can't get the dimpled anymore, so your realistic choices are going with the newer-style ribbed or PowerFlow.



They cannot build new. They can only "rebuild". And as was explained to me, they simply take the measurements from your old one, recreate new parts, and then simply pull the old part number/data tag over and rivet it onto the new one an viola!

I sent my system off to Aerospace Welding Minneapolis (AWI) to just have the muffler done at a quoted $700, and you can view the prices HERE, but again they all have a core charge you will need. I do not know if they can accept the older design in lieu of the newer design. Doing simple math... its $4,317...minus the core charge comes in at $3,800. It seems their prices have risen, I was quoted $2,900 last year to redo my entire exhaust. I told them to return it and was planning on going PowerFlow for that price, but I managed to find a member here that pulled off a serviceable muffler when he upgraded to PowerFlow and I'm currently running that now.

Going through my logbooks it seems these completely new (read: rebuilt) systems only last about 5 years. I understand they are short exhausts and are subject to extreme heat, but you'd think they'd last longer.

If a couple hundred $$$ don't matter to you, I'd spring for the PowerFlow and call it done. There is some maintenance needed every so often (including complete removal, lubrication, and reassembly at annual, if I'm correct), but I'd consider the marginal performance and looks better than an OEM exhaust. I also believe the PF has a smaller muffler so more room in the cowling.
 

Are you able to line the PF slip joints without dropping the lower cowl?   You just loosen the riser bolts on one side, and pull out, lube reinstall, then other side.     Right?

Edited July 30, 2018 by Browncbr1

[lamont337]

1 hour ago, Raptor05121 said:

There are two designs. The first is the dimpled muffler (Hanlon & Wilson) with the risers bolted together. It was superceded by a SB sometime in the 60s with a more-efficient design known as the slip-joint ribbed in which the risers are simply a friction fit and the dimples are replaced by ribs. You can't get the dimpled anymore, so your realistic choices are going with the newer-style ribbed or PowerFlow.



They cannot build new. They can only "rebuild". And as was explained to me, they simply take the measurements from your old one, recreate new parts, and then simply pull the old part number/data tag over and rivet it onto the new one an viola!

I sent my system off to Aerospace Welding Minneapolis (AWI) to just have the muffler done at a quoted $700, and you can view the prices HERE, but again they all have a core charge you will need. I do not know if they can accept the older design in lieu of the newer design. Doing simple math... its $4,317...minus the core charge comes in at $3,800. It seems their prices have risen, I was quoted $2,900 last year to redo my entire exhaust. I told them to return it and was planning on going PowerFlow for that price, but I managed to find a member here that pulled off a serviceable muffler when he upgraded to PowerFlow and I'm currently running that now.

Going through my logbooks it seems these completely new (read: rebuilt) systems only last about 5 years. I understand they are short exhausts and are subject to extreme heat, but you'd think they'd last longer.

If a couple hundred $$$ don't matter to you, I'd spring for the PowerFlow and call it done. There is some maintenance needed every so often (including complete removal, lubrication, and reassembly at annual, if I'm correct), but I'd consider the marginal performance and looks better than an OEM exhaust. I also believe the PF has a smaller muffler so more room in the cowling.
 

I used AWI to rebuild what was left of my muffler earlier this year, interior baffles were just about gone. Sent in the pipes along with it so they could put everything on their jig and make sure all of the angles were correct. I don’t think they really did any work on the pipes themselves but I’d have to check the work order. Suggest sending everything out to get a real estimate before pulling the trigger on power flow. Are the pipes salvageable or nearly?

 

[1964-M20E]

You can try Aerospace welding as well.

https://awi-ami.com/?SID=n2hfh939k8260j8bl2s59qrs56

[tony]

20 hours ago, 1964-M20E said:

You can try Aerospace welding as well.

https://awi-ami.com/?SID=n2hfh939k8260j8bl2s59qrs56

+1 for AWI, I used them.  Call Charlie Feld  651-379-9854.  They have a PMA, will make you up a new system.  

Edited July 31, 2018 by tony

[Bob_Belville]

I learned at KOSH that there are over 650 Mooneys now operating with Power Flow Systems exhausts. Only the 4 cylinder 180 and 200 HP models (through Js) are eligible so that would seem to represent a significant %age of the fleet.    

I have had PFS on my '66E for 6 years and I'm sure it is better than the original equipment. Not only is it likely to last a lot longer but it will improve performance. I replaced mine when the old system needed replacement so I just looked at the delta cost vs. a rebuilt system. 

[Raptor05121]

On 7/30/2018 at 8:31 AM, Browncbr1 said:

Are you able to line the PF slip joints without dropping the lower cowl?   You just loosen the riser bolts on one side, and pull out, lube reinstall, then other side.     Right?

I do not know. I don't have a PF

[Browncbr1]

1 hour ago, Bob_Belville said:

I learned at KOSH that there are over 650 Mooneys now operating with Power Flow Systems exhausts. Only the 4 cylinder 180 and 200 HP models (through Js) are eligible so that would seem to represent a significant %age of the fleet.    

I have had PFS on my '66E for 6 years and I'm sure it is better than the original equipment. Not only is it likely to last a lot longer but it will improve performance. I replaced mine when the old system needed replacement so I just looked at the delta cost vs. a rebuilt system. 

Can the PF slip joints be lubricated at annual without removing the lower cowl?

 

[Bartman]

9 minutes ago, Browncbr1 said:

Can the PF slip joints be lubricated at annual without removing the lower cowl?

 

I have never don't this part of the annual maintenance myself and always done by maintenance guys. But I don't see any way you could even get a wrench on the exhaust bolts without removal of the lower cowl on the J. Not sure about the F. 

FWIW, Other than annual slip joint lubrication and one time replacement of a clamp for the exhaust tail pipe I have no problems in nearly 12 years of service with my Powerflow. 

[DXB]

For new exhausts, basically there's the discontinued old studded ones, the currently available ribbed ones, the Knisley ones (which are studded and also available new), and the Powerflow.  

[Nokomis449]

4 or 5 years ago I had to replace my M20G, O-360A1D muffler due to cracks.  There wasn't one on a shelf in all of America, and I didn't have time for a rebuild.  So I went with a complete system, risers and all, from Knisley Welding.  The only part I reused was the stainless heater shroud.  I swear I picked up 3-5 knots.  The exhaust pipe is noticeably longer than original, and the guys I fly formation with call me names like "Donkey" and ask "what's that hanging under your plane?".  Total jealousy, especially when I advance the throttle in response.

Just this weekend I flew alongside a healthy C model with a 3 blade prop (mine's 2) and was surprised that I had a few knots on him, since my G (with 2,300 hrs SREM) is supposed to be the "slowest" Mooney.  Maintenance on the Knisley has been nil outside of normal inspections.

I still have the complete old system if anyone needs a rebuildable exhaust.  I think I got PowerFlow performance at a Knisley price.

@Raptor05121, I haven't been on here in a long while, and it looks like you've added several states since then.  Congrats!  Did you ever check out that private strip on a south Georgia island for camping?  Can't remember the name or exact location but it was being restored and seemed like a good grass strip/camping destination.

[1964-M20E]

Well the Donkey effect may keep some of the exhaust residue from collecting on the belly of the plane.

[Captnmack]

Anyone have any useable Ball style exhaust risers for a 65’ C... Need 1&4. 

Mack

214-282-6766.

[carusoam]

@Alan Fox

@acpartswhse

@SheryLoewen

exhaust Parts question...   ^^^^

-a-