Vinyl Detail / decals

[GDGR]

Looking to see if anyone has had any Vinyl work done to their plane? I'm just in the middle of a pre-buy of a M20F. The paint is overall a 5 or 6, but the color scheme isn't my bag. I definitely would like to fly the bird a few years before I toss another large sum on just paint (it needs interior work, and a panel upgrade at some point). 

Has anyone had luck with a partial vinyl wrap? Just to cover the old colors, and give it a new look. This is what I was thinking of doing, to cover over the old double blue it has now. 

[Seymour]

There was a thread awhile back where someone was complaining about how ugly their new wings were; the picture posted looked just like mine.   Anyway, you may want to peruse this thread as I found it very helpful.

 

[kmyfm20s]

@StinkBug did a lot with his plane. Turned out great!

[gsxrpilot]

  On 5/25/2018 at 9:01 PM, kmyfm20s said:

@StinkBug did that very thing with his plane. Turned out great!

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Fixed it for ya.

All the red on his plane is vinyl wrap.

[carusoam]

The yellow rag... Trade a plane... has an advertiser that might make an interesting website visit...

I saw it earlier this week and immediately thought of Brice/raged, who knows a bit about some high end / creative wraps...

There may be additional work required for airlerons.... a usual weight and balance procedure when they get painted...

Best regards,

-a-

[GDGR]

Any clue what this ran him? Precisely what I’m looking to do. 

[gsxrpilot]

  On 5/26/2018 at 4:03 AM, CDNflyby said:

Any clue what this ran him? Precisely what I’m looking to do. 

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i'm pretty sure it was $0. He did it himself from scraps of vinyl from a friend who runs a shop. Dallas @StinkBug owns an off road racing fabrication company and so has a lot of contacts in that business. Race vehicles are more often wrapped as it's cheaper and easier than paint. I'm pretty sure he got some scraps from a friend and did it himself. 

I believe @ragedracer1977 is in the wrapping business its self. He might give you an estimate for this type of work. 

[wesley parker]

I did a 100% wrap on a Zodiac 601XLB.  I loved it, and was very pleased.

Here are a few pointers since most wrap installer do cars and trucks.

NO! NO! Razors knives against the aluminum.  most installers do not appreciate this.

Watch out that they don't cover any static ports

Also wrap won't stay stuck to any areas that have been oil soaked

Avoid any wrapped edges exposed to airstream.

Finally,  it is a very gray area with the FAA about the technicians being/not being certified.  Since I am an A&P, I signed my own log books. (plus..it was an experimental)

Here is a pix of my Zodiac  

[HRM]

  On 5/26/2018 at 11:15 AM, wesley parker said:

I did a 100% wrap on a Zodiac 601XLB.  I loved it, and was very pleased.

Here are a few pointers since most wrap installer do cars and trucks.

NO! NO! Razors knives against the aluminum.  most installers do not appreciate this.

Watch out that they don't cover any static ports

Also wrap won't stay stuck to any areas that have been oil soaked

Avoid any wrapped edges exposed to airstream.

Finally,  it is a very gray area with the FAA about the technicians being/not being certified.  Since I am an A&P, I signed my own log books. (plus..it was an experimental)

Here is a pix of my Zodiac  

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Some questions...but first let me say thanks for sharing and that Zodiac looks great!

1) How much did it cost?

2) Was the plane painted before the wrap? What is under the vinyl?

3) What was the weight change after the wrap; i.e., what did the vinyl cost you in terms of gross weight increase?

I'm building an MII and definitely considering this option.

Thanks!

[wesley parker]

I paid $500 for the designer and $6,300 to have it wrapped.  I took the wings off and transported it to the local auto wrap shop. Part of the price was that they would do it as a side job when their work was slow, so it took several weeks for them to completely finish the job. The aircraft was bare aluminum as we had just finished the kit.  The nice thing about a wrap is that they use a 6ft printer to print your (any) design on the wrap material so the design you see is on a single layer of wrap material. the wrap added about 12lbs to the weight of the airplane.  I believe that is waaay less than a comparable paint job.  In the 5 years that I owned that airplane, the wrap had not faded, or come loose at all. I did keep it hangered.

The wrap is very very thin, sorta like saran wrap and it is somewhat stretchy so it goes around corners and compound curves well. Although I could have done this with a good helper, I am glad that I hired it out.  There is a learning curve that you don't have to go through if you use an experienced wrap technician.

Wes

[wesley parker]

Oh....My Zodiac leaked water like crazy before we wrapped it.  Afterward, it was waterproof!

[HRM]

  On 5/26/2018 at 12:57 PM, wesley parker said:

the wrap added about 12lbs to the weight of the airplane.

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Wes, thanks very much for this datum, I'm decided, wrap it is.

[Hank]

  On 5/26/2018 at 1:16 PM, HRM said:

Wes, thanks very much for this datum, I'm decided, wrap it is.

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Post pictures!!! We wanna see . . . . . . . .

[rpcc]

there was a thread around here about a failed faa ramp check due to a wrap.  

you would have to rebalance control surfaces if they were wrapped - correct?

[Yetti]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00XULNZI0/ref=asc_df_B00XULNZI05488370/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033&creativeASIN=B00XULNZI0&linkCode=df0&hvadid=193168541182&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5694910856191865266&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9028614&hvtargid=pla-308718976069

 

https://www.fellers.com/fellers-shopping/cat/wrap-tools-and-supplies/sub/rivet-roller-tools/set/rollepro-vinyl-application-roller

 

 

[wesley parker]

I have found that "ramp checks" are usually performed by more junior safety inspectors that are often out to "prove" themselves. Personally I wish the FAA would do away with them. (They don't usually listen to me)  Yes, Wraps are a grey area with the FAA.  Some FSDO's treat them like decals, that can be applied by your local A&P,  while others want to see them installed by a certified FAA repair station with licensed technicians.  If you have a doubt, I suggest calling your local FSDO.  Remember, wraps in themselves are not illegal, it's all about how they are applied... While there are many auto wrappers that may not understand airplanes and the FAA. There are many companies that do FAA approved wraps.  Take a look at this FedEx wrap and this Cessna wrap.  (shop around, the prices vary widely)

Concerning re-balancing, You should re-balance or at the least check the balance anytime "anything" is done to control surfaces that "could" affect the balance.  Given that wrap is lighter than paint, the likelihood you'll have to re-balance is less.  (unless you put the wrap over the existing paint )  

Edited May 26, 2018 by wesley parker
typo correction

[HRM]

  On 5/26/2018 at 1:44 PM, rpcc said:

...there was a thread around here about a failed faa ramp check due to a wrap.  

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We're actually talking experimental here, where pretty much anything goes. That said, a certified aircraft can be wrapped, but Uncle has to be involved (of course). You just can't replace paint with wrap from what I understand.

 

[gsxrpilot]

A quick google search of aircraft wrap returns lots of shops, mainly in Florida, that specialize in wrapping airplanes. 

I'd love to see evidence of a ramp check that raising issues with a wrap, but can't find any. 

[rpcc]

I will look for the thread.  

 

[rpcc]

@HRM the op mentioned an m20f 

[rpcc]

Good thread on this but no mention of the ramp check 

https://mooneyspace.com/topic/22538-putting-vinyl-decals-on-your-plane/

 

[HRM]

  On 5/26/2018 at 7:01 PM, rpcc said:

@HRM the op mentioned an m20f 

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I think the bottom line here is as follows:

1) If it is an Experimental, knock yourself out. That said, an anecdotal account over on the MII Yahoo board stated: "More of a concern is that there was a recent fatality where a wing came off an RV.  The guy had wrapped the complete aircraft but was concerned that it wasn't sticking well and there was some thought that it had caused flutter on the ailerons. Needless to say I plan to check that out further."

2) If it's your Mooney I strongly suggest getting Uncle involved. Yes boys, that's IA not just personal A&P. It may also be a 337, who knows. There is another anecdotal story of a guy who let an automotive shop wrap his plane, Cessgnat IIRC, and the FAA made him tear it all off at significant expense.

The joy of flight awaits 

[gsxrpilot]

  On 5/27/2018 at 3:09 AM, HRM said:

I think the bottom line here is as follows:

1) If it is an Experimental, knock yourself out. That said, an anecdotal account over on the MII Yahoo board stated: "More of a concern is that there was a recent fatality where a wing came off an RV.  The guy had wrapped the complete aircraft but was concerned that it wasn't sticking well and there was some thought that it had caused flutter on the ailerons. Needless to say I plan to check that out further."

2) If it's your Mooney I strongly suggest getting Uncle involved. Yes boys, that's IA not just personal A&P. It may also be a 337, who knows. There is another anecdotal story of a guy who let an automotive shop wrap his plane, Cessgnat IIRC, and the FAA made him tear it all off at significant expense.

The joy of flight awaits 

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A lot of "anecdotal" negative evidence... Meanwhile we have some "actual" positive experience from our own @StinkBug, who's Mooney looks GREAT, by the way.

[wesley parker]

I fly both Experimental and Certified.  For Do it your selfers, and certified, my rule of thumb, is that pretty much anything goes on the fuselage, and wings to some degree.  Avoid controls surfaces.

My piece of advice.  Think about how it may fail...Avoid large panels of vinyl....reason?  Imagine a 6-8 ft section halfway pulled loose and flapping in the breeze.    This is why you never have an exposed leading edge of vinyl.  Always wrap around any leading edge exposed to the airflow.

 

I am not trying to scare anybody away from a wrap...to the contrary, do it right and give it a lot of thought.  You'll be really pleased with the results

[1964-M20E]

Unless I am mistaken for certified as long as you don't touch the control surfaces you are good.  I can go out strip and paint my plane myself if I was so inclined just leave the control surfaces alone or check them for balance then I need an A&P.  The same goes for the interior finishing I can do whatever I want in there per the FAA rules.