Does Oil Analysis Increase Airplane Value?

[AaronDC8402]

I recently finished the 3rd oil change on our recently overhauled 201's engine. I collected a sample for oil analysis, and it's sitting on my desk. I'm trying to decide if I'm going to pay the money and send it off to Blackstone.

We did oil analysis on every oil change with the prior engine. It provided no specific warning of our engine's lifter face coming apart. Readings from oil analysis were consistent over the 200-ish hours that we flew the prior engine. Ultimately, metal found in the oil filter and strainer made the decision to overhaul. I sent the oil out after the first non-mineral oil change. I'm starting to form the opinion that the oil analysis doesn't provide any benefit over a close inspection of the oil filter.

The only cost justification I can come up with for oil analysis would be if the plane is worth any more money due to a history of oil analysis with every oil change since overhaul. We have no plans of selling the plane, but we are aware of it being an investment (good or bad). Keeping it worth as much as we can protects that investment. So...what's the opinion of MooneySpace? Does oil analysis pay for itself by way of adding value at resell?

I'll also accept other arguments for why we should continue with oil analysis.

[Mooneymite]

Oil analysis has become an emotional issue for some people.  Obviously it has "some value", but whether it adds value to your aircraft depends on the buyer.

When I buy a plane, the history of perfect oil analysis reports really means nothing except that the oil was good in the past.  There's no guarantee that the engine isn't going to fail catastrophically on the delivery flight.

I would say that "less-than-perfect" oil history can de-value a plane more than good reports can add value. 

[Bryan]

I would come more buying a plane with the history over the same model (time) without the history. I think it adds some selling value but unsure I would do it ONLY for selling value for the cost. I think you can find out issues using trending on the reports. To me, it shows you care about your investment and having and independent validate that adds value - my opinion.

[Andy95W]

I do not believe a history of oil analysis adds to the airplane's value.  

It may make it easier to sell, however.

[Robert C.]

6 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

I do not believe a history of oil analysis adds to the airplane's value.  

It may make it easier to sell, however.

This argument resonates with me.

If I were a buyer and someone offered/presented me with a multi-year list of oil analysis reports I'd take that as (one small piece of) evidence that the owner took care of that plane. So if I were on the fence on which aircraft to buy that might tip the scales.

[Oldguy]

My J had a factory O/H engine in it with 400 hours on it when the oil analysis came back showing high copper in the sample. When the next one was even higher, the prior owners pulled the engine and had it cracked open to find the problem. Turns out it had spun a main bearing. A repair by G&N and 1200 hours later, it is still running fine and making full power at almost 1700 hours.

I do not think oil analysis will find every possible problem in an engine, but there are some instances where it will give early warning about an upcoming problem if someone can interpret what it says.

The value I would see in it is a sign the previous owner was attentive to maintenance of the plane and didn't worry about spending an extra $50 or so when changing the oil.

Edited April 25, 2018 by Oldguy
Typos.

[steingar]

I wouldn't count on getting your money back for all that analysis when you go to sell.  Personally, I think one should do analysis if it gives one piece of mind.  Phooey on what the next guy thinks.

[jaylw314]

I'd agree it doesn't add "value" to the plane.  It's like having all your invoices--it doesn't add value, but it does help the buyer assess you and your maintenance practices, which is one of his jobs.

Oil analysis wouldn't be expected to help with stuff that causes metal to shed.  that will be caught in your filter and screen.  It will only catch metal fragments small enough to oxidize, or metal that started out oxidized (corrosion).  

So if you believe corrosion is something you want to catch early, oil analysis good at detecting it (and some other problems), and cheap.  Unfortunately, when it provides clear guidance, it usually involves cracking the bottom end (expensive).

In medicine, the mark of a good "screening" test (where you should do it on people who appear healthy) is a tests that is:

• cheap
• sensitive (good at detecting problems)
• detects problems that have cheap/easy fixes (cost-effective)

So oil analysis scores 2 out of 3.  Not a slam dunk, so YMMV

[Vance Harral]

This is a thoughtful question, I appreciate you asking.

We've done oil analysis every oil change for 14 years on our airplane, and I feel good about the fact we do, especially since it provides long-term trend data.  In our case the cost is split three ways across a partnership, and feels lost in the noise of larger maintenance and operating expenses.  But we're aware there are several classes of engine problems that will not show up in oil analysis, and we don't have any illusions about it.  When we value the airplane for insurance purposes every year, we base the value on comps without regard to whether or not said comps advertise long-term oil analysis.  There are so many other factors in the value of an airplane that dwarf it.

Were I looking to buy another Mooney and encountered a seller like you who gave rational reasons for choosing not to do oil analysis, I don't think I'd "ding" you on value.  For me, it's more about attitude than execution.  There's a big difference between a seller who says, "Our engine maintenance and health processes don't include oil analysis because we were unable to justify the time and value, we choose to do X, Y, and Z instead"; and one who says "That there oil analysis is just a scam!  It don't mean s**t!"

[DXB]

I might consider doing oil analysis regularly for a few consecutive oil changes prior to selling and try using the objective data as a selling point if the results were unconcerning.  Absence of alarming trends would provide a  modest amount of assurance to me as a buyer.  However, clean oil analysis certainly cannot preclude expensive maintenance on the horizon.  As a practical tool to guide maintenance and promote safety , I've concluded that it is nearly useless and have stopped doing it - I have no intention of selling any time soon.

[AaronDC8402]

9 minutes ago, DXB said:

As a practical tool to guide maintenance and promote safety , I've concluded that it is nearly useless and have stopped doing it - I have no intention of selling any time soon.

 

This pretty well describes my exact sentiment and reason for asking the question. It's the "nearly" that keeps getting me thinking about doing it anyways.

The only reason I'm still thinking about it is because it is so cheap relative to every other aspect of plane maintenance and ownership. In reality, we're talking about roughly $1,500 over the course of the TBO of the engine. Just as an example, say we sell with a mid-time engine. We've spent $750 in oil analysis. Ultimately, $750 is going to be lost in the "noise" of negotiations. Justifying oil analysis as a value-adder is probably a pretty weak argument.

The conclusion that I'm coming back to, is that it's so cheap we just do it anyways. 

[DonMuncy]

Examining the filter and doing an oil analysis find 2 different sets of problems, and doing both is better than not doing them. If you had to choose, cutting and looking at the filter is probably more likely to avert a problem. But since the oil analysis costs about the same or less than a filter, I think it is worthwhile. 

And yes, if I were buying, I would lean a little more favorably (although admittedly not a lot) on the engine with a  good oil analysis history.

[smccray]

1 hour ago, AaronDC8402 said:

I recently finished the 3rd oil change on our recently overhauled 201's engine. I collected a sample for oil analysis, and it's sitting on my desk. I'm trying to decide if I'm going to pay the money and send it off to Blackstone.

We did oil analysis on every oil change with the prior engine. It provided no specific warning of our engine's lifter face coming apart. Readings from oil analysis were consistent over the 200-ish hours that we flew the prior engine. Ultimately, metal found in the oil filter and strainer made the decision to overhaul. I sent the oil out after the first non-mineral oil change. I'm starting to form the opinion that the oil analysis doesn't provide any benefit over a close inspection of the oil filter.

The only cost justification I can come up with for oil analysis would be if the plane is worth any more money due to a history of oil analysis with every oil change since overhaul. We have no plans of selling the plane, but we are aware of it being an investment (good or bad). Keeping it worth as much as we can protects that investment. So...what's the opinion of MooneySpace? Does oil analysis pay for itself by way of adding value at resell?

I'll also accept other arguments for why we should continue with oil analysis.

My opinion- oil analysis doesn't add a bunch of value to the airplane.  If the oil analysis is important to a buyer, then the buyer can send an oil sample in as part of a prebuy.  That's what I'm doing on an airplane next month.

DMax does oil analysis at annual.  I don't add send in oil samples between annuals, but if I saw a change in the engine monitor data or in oil consumption I would certainly send an oil sample in for analysis as part of the diagnosis of the problem.  If the numbers in the oil analysis looked good when you purchase the plane, how much more would you be willing to pay with a couple dozen oil analysis reports?  My bet is not a lot.  If some of the numbers in the oil analysis were elevated but stable for a few samples, are you going to pay more for the airplane or ding the value because of the elevated levels in the oil?

[Robert C.]

To add to my earlier comment; I do an oil analysis at every oil change. Blackstone sends the analysis with a short write-up on what they consider noteworthy, my AP and I always review/discuss it. The quarterly timing strikes me as better than "once a year at annual" as it gives you a chance to monitor the trends throughout the year. Relative to the overall cost of ownership this is cheap insurance.

Robert

[Browncbr1]

If you’re going to spend the money, I would be much more impressed by higher frequency of oil changes with high quality oil and avblend rather than money thrown to blackstone.   

[jetdriven]

Oil analysis twice has indicated engine problems which indicated problems which led to engine overhaul. In both cases the elevated metals were evident long before anything else alerted us to problems. The oil sample at prebuy means nothing. It’s a single data point on an engine that usually is sitting beucause the owner is selling... But a long history of <30ppm iron and low values of the other metals matters. They have a solid engine. 

In answer to previous comments I’ll take the LOP 50hr oil change over the ROP “fuel is cheaper than engines” 25hr oil change engine 

[MyNameIsNobody]

6 hours ago, Andy95W said:

I do not believe a history of oil analysis adds to the airplane's value.  

It may make it easier to sell, however.

+1

[Hank]

I've been advised to start oil analysis in a couple hundred more hours (just over 800 SMOH now). That will establish a baseline to watch for changes as the engine ages. Said right now I don't need it.

[Yooper Rocketman]

I did them religiously on my F model that was purchased with 1900 hours SMOH.  At 2400 hours exactly, during an oil change, we found a ton of metal in the filter and pulled the engine (we decided it was lifter/cam flaking off).  I decided to still send in the sample that was pulled during draining before I had found the metal.  The sample came back clean.  I did them less often on the Rocket after purchase, but at almost 500 hours past TBO on my Rocket, I have started doing them again.  I guess it's one more parameter to monitor the engine health besides tracking oil consumption, oil filter inspection, engine monitor feedback, and engine compressions.

Tom

[carusoam]

Summary...

• Get the oil analyzed for yourself, for your own reasons...
• You are looking for deterioration of internal engine parts. Comforting to know nothing bad is happening...
• the time you find the deterioration of parts, How does that help resale value?
• Doing it annually makes sense...
• Doing it consistently in terms of hours, makes sense.  Comparing 50hour samples to other 50 hour samples...

If you do preemptive mainentance for your own reasons, keep good organized notes... this all helps the next buyer see the value in your plane...

The new buyer is going to do a PPI anyways... this will be strong evidence in the basket pointing to the probable health of the engine...

The buyer probably wants to see that the engine has been run often and the oil analysis is in agreement with that...

It’s not going to be... hey those copper numbers look good in that sample... I’ll buy this one.

If cams, followers or bearings are misbehaving, metal dust starts to show increasingly in the analysis...

Having a bearing turn is more of a digital event...  it was a zero up til one day, then it became a 1....

Having a cam wear through its hardened layer...  Close to digital... low numbers until one day the dust becomes a teaspoon full of chips in the oil filter...

Moon surfaces on the cam followers... are like a rough file... working on the cam lobes...

Avoiding These is better than finding these...

Finding These is better than not looking for them...

Having this happen isn’t going to make anyone’s day...

PP thoughts only,

-a-

 

[LANCECASPER]

On 4/25/2018 at 3:01 PM, AaronDC8402 said:

The only reason I'm still thinking about it is because it is so cheap relative to every other aspect of plane maintenance and ownership. In reality, we're talking about roughly $1,500 over the course of the TBO of the engine. Just as an example, say we sell with a mid-time engine. We've spent $750 in oil analysis. Ultimately, $750 is going to be lost in the "noise" of negotiations. Justifying oil analysis as a value-adder is probably a pretty weak argument.

The conclusion that I'm coming back to, is that it's so cheap we just do it anyways. 

I buy the prepaid Aviation Oil Analysis (AOA) kits from Aircraft Spruce. (They also sell ones from Lab One. I just got used to AOA since they already had a trend on the airplane I  bought.) They cost me $11.40 each and they e-mail the results usually a day or two after they receive it. I like looking at the trends. If you change oil every 25 hours, let's say with postage it costs you $15 per time, that means $60 every 100 hours or $600 every 1000 hours. I think it's worth it. People buy when they are comfortable with the Seller and the product. If someone is looking for an airplane that has good maintenance records and a meticulous owner it may help to sway them toward your airplane. But the real value is if it catches something in a trend that you wouldn't find otherwise.

 

 

 

[gsxrpilot]

My 252 came with complete oil analysis records. It was a factor is my decision to purchase. And as @LANCECASPER said, it was more about demonstrating a commitment to proper maintenance and care, than what the analysis data actually showed.