EI CGR-30P/B/C ANY GOOD

[McMooney]

Really thinking about buying and installing an EI CGR-30p/b/c

any reports ?  

 

I have an empty 3 inch hole in front of the pilots seat, thinking it would go good.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/graphics/promos/2018/EI-Rebate-Feb-2018.pdf

Edited April 21, 2018 by McMooney

[slowflyin]

I flew with one in my F model for years and loved it.  I've also owned 3 AC with JPI products.   There is an existing thread on this subject.  If I can remember the title I'll amend this post.

[gsxrpilot]

I'm sure it's a great product, and EI customer support always gets high reviews. Actually much better than JPI support.

But having said that it just doesn't seem to me to be a good buy. Engine monitors can either replace your factory EGT and CHT gauges or can replace ALL engine gauges. The CGR-30 units do neither economically ($$$ or panel space). If you're just looking for a replacement for EGT/CHT, then the CGR-30 is too expensive and the GEM G2 is a much better buy for the same functionality. If you're looking to replace all engine gauges then you'd need two CGR-30 units and two 3 inch holes. And in that case the JPI EDM-900 will do the same in less panel space and for less $$$.

[Igor_U]

6 hours ago, McMooney said:

Really thinking about buying and installing an EI CGR-30p/b/c

any reports ?  

 

I have an empty 3 inch hole right in front me the pilots seat, thinking it would go good.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/graphics/promos/2018/EI-Rebate-Feb-2018.pdf

Yes, I have a CGR-30P (premium) for couple of years in my plane. Since it's Primary, it replaced all of my engine instruments except for Fuel levels. I wanted the unit that would fit into standard 3 1/8" hole and took RPM and MP/FP gages out as well as aftermarket EGTx4 and OAT gages. JPI was a no-go for me as would require new panel cut and I couldn't installed it into existing hole. And I prefer EI service better as well.

For now, I kept the original cluster gage but covered the bottom half (CHT, oil temp and press). I plan major pilot panel upgrade (G5s etc...) and at that time will remove cluster and replace it with Aerospace Logic Dual Fuel level gage (2.25" dia).

 

I installed the unit myself, with IA's supervision. No issues at all as their documentation and instructions are great. I have only good things to say about EI support. They helped me reprogram unit to use existing shunt for ammeter.

Keep in mind it takes time to do the removal of old gages, wires and fuel/vacuum lines. Installation probably took 30-35h due to difficult access on my '67F and having avionics (DME/ADF/Transponder) on RHS panel. Also I had to fabricate and attached a tray for unit remote CPU as there was no room on firewall or back of the panel.

Display is very bright with good resolution and size is not an issue for me. It is located above the old cluster gage (old MP/FP location) but with a new panel I might move it on LHS panel where VOR1 indicator would normally be.

 

Good luck with your install. 

 

Edited April 21, 2018 by Igor_U

[McMooney]

hmm, am i unclear on something?

the text on aircraft spruce and the ei site, say the ei cgr-30p can be used as a replacement for primary instruments.

only thing that might not be replaced is fuel quantity ( don't use these anyway ) and vacuum pressure.

[McMooney]

do i have to remove the old instruments?  Not quite ready for a panel makeover.

[gsxrpilot]

18 minutes ago, McMooney said:

hmm, am i unclear on something?

the text on aircraft spruce and the ei site, say the ei cgr-30p can be used as a replacement for primary instruments.

only thing that might not be replaced is fuel quantity ( don't use these anyway ) and vacuum pressure.

It is frankly a bit mis-leading. But careful reading will show that the CGR-30P can be Primary for MP, RPM, CHT, EGT, and only three other options. The Mooney cluster in your E has six gauges. They are Fuel L, Fuel R, Amps, Oil Temp, Oil Pressure, CHT. CHT is done, so pick any other three. 

But since fuel quantity is required equipment and in our Mooney's it is part of the cluster. This means keeping the entire cluster in the panel even though four out of the six gauges will be "inop". Eventually you'll want to have fuel gauges that are accurate. Many of us here have installed the CiES digital senders with the EDM900 and are enjoying extremely accurate fuel quantity information. (It's amazing how much more useful a cross country machine like the Mooney is with accurate fuel data). 

The bottom line is that the CGR-30P is a half step in the direction you ultimately will want to go. You're probably not ready for a full panel make-over yet, but one day you'll want to take the next step. And at that point, the CGR will have to be replaced or the second CGR added. 

It's a good instrument, but it just fails the "do it right the first time" test. The difference in cost between the install of the EDM-900 and the install of the CGR might be $200 for a fabricated bracket to hold it in place of the current stock cluster. Or just stick it in the 3" hole for no difference in cost of installation. But then you're done. You might later do a full panel overhaul and move the instrument, but you won't be replacing it.

It might look like I just throw money at my Mooney, but those who know, realize I've done my panel for less than 50% of retail cost. And that does include taking small steps, but only steps that I won't have to backtrack and redo.

[Mooney in Oz]

I know that JPI has a bad rap sheet for service going back many years ago. I recently needed their assistance with my 830 and found the tech guy to be nothing short of excellent, even after having to call him back a couple of times and spending some time with me on the phone.  He was patient and professional with the problem eventually solved.

[Marauder]

hmm, am i unclear on something?
the text on aircraft spruce and the ei site, say the ei cgr-30p can be used as a replacement for primary instruments.
only thing that might not be replaced is fuel quantity ( don't use these anyway ) and vacuum pressure.

I looked at the Aircraft Spruce site. In order to get all the functions you need to be used as a full primary you need that combo unit. Fuel gauges are not in the basic single unit. That combo unit is $5k (not counting their rebate). And you will need two holes for these units.

I am very familiar with those cluster gauges in your plane. Seen many of them with inoperative gauges. I made the mistake of buying a non primary unit and then removed it to install one later that was. I wouldn’t install a unit that couldn’t act as primary regardless if you leave your old primary gauges in or not.


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[Igor_U]

4 hours ago, McMooney said:

hmm, am i unclear on something?

the text on aircraft spruce and the ei site, say the ei cgr-30p can be used as a replacement for primary instruments.

only thing that might not be replaced is fuel quantity ( don't use these anyway ) and vacuum pressure.

there is a limited number of channels available hence you can not fit fuel quantity in single CGR-30P. If you want to remove cluster gage your options are to get a second CGR-30P ($$$) or get a additional certified fuel gages like Aerospace Logic Dual Fuel gage for around $650. This is my plan but you could go with cheaper certified gages as well (Mitchell).

In my case, JPI units or EI MVP-50 (preferred but $$) were no-go as it would require new panel.

Keep in mind that installation of CGR-30P will free number of instrument holes in your panel (in my case 4 + Cluster gage location) so you'll have extra room on your panel. I don't remember if you need to remove the old instruments per STC but I see no reason why not. instrument hole blanks are cheap, lighter then instruments and old wiring and lines...

Personally, I don't see how this unit is half step IF you get the new fuel gages and possibly CiES senders as well and will not require change of the RHS panel.

BTW,

If you go for it, consider getting this smart charger:

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/eicrgr30p-usb.php

It is part of the  same STC, used for data download and iPad charger and is cheaper then other chargers on the market.

 

Good luck

 

 

[Steve W]

I ended up going with the JPI EDM 900. Originally I wanted the EI CGR-30P, but the same problems I needed a second gauge either at least for the fuel level or a full CGR-30C. The 900 was $1000 less than having both instruments, and for now I don't need to do any panel cutting, tentative plan is to redo the panel next year.

Here's the worlds worst mock-up. Behind the 900 was the Electric Backup AI, which had no battery, so I'm switching to the RC Allen electronic w/ battery over in the TC position.

 

 

Edited April 21, 2018 by Steve W

[jamesm]

I am in the process installing an E.I.  CGR 30C  in my '67C  though I haven't been working real  hard  on getting it installed. I already have and a Insight G3  installed for my EGT/CHT and  fuel flow  Engine monitor.   One of my reasons was get rid of  the engine six pack cluster gauges it is in the way for future expansion.  Plus I wanted accurate fuel indication so I order CIES  fuel sender that work off of frequency and  they are supposed to be much more accurate than the original equipment 0-30 ohm senders. I figured might as well  have  actuate readings  for engine gauges  as well.  So far the real bear has been able to find firewall space to mount all the accessories  (EDC Engine Data Computer) and manifold pressure sensor on the inside of cabin. I have had to re-arrange somethings on the firewall to make room.  Not a real fan of EI's method of splicing  regarding non temperature  probes  (CHT/EGT)   connections it looks to me it is farrel  with allen screw for contact or their pin selection for DB connectors.

 

James '67C

 

 

 

Edited April 22, 2018 by jamesm

[Clparker23]

I’m on the books to have the cgr 30 c installed in October along with a panel upgrade, the way I had it configured I’ll consolidate the following gauges: MP, RPM, fuel quantity l/r, amps, oil pres, oil temp, cht, egt, fuel pres, vac. And added fuel flow, engine time and time. I’ll let you know how it comes out, I was informed by the shop about their dislike of the red slide-in-Allen-tightened connectors. I have a used ubg16 that I installed about a 3 months ago that has worked great until the last flight after changing spark plugs, I might have a loosened connection on one of the probes that I’ll have to fiddle with. That’s the first problem I’ve had with them and that was after engine tore apart and all probes hanging during annual then spark plugs replaced.


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[oregon87]

On 4/21/2018 at 7:40 AM, gsxrpilot said:

It is frankly a bit mis-leading. But careful reading will show that the CGR-30P can be Primary for MP, RPM, CHT, EGT, and only three other options. The Mooney cluster in your E has six gauges. They are Fuel L, Fuel R, Amps, Oil Temp, Oil Pressure, CHT. CHT is done, so pick any other three. 

But since fuel quantity is required equipment and in our Mooney's it is part of the cluster. This means keeping the entire cluster in the panel even though four out of the six gauges will be "inop". Eventually you'll want to have fuel gauges that are accurate. Many of us here have installed the CiES digital senders with the EDM900 and are enjoying extremely accurate fuel quantity information. (It's amazing how much more useful a cross country machine like the Mooney is with accurate fuel data). 

The bottom line is that the CGR-30P is a half step in the direction you ultimately will want to go. You're probably not ready for a full panel make-over yet, but one day you'll want to take the next step. And at that point, the CGR will have to be replaced or the second CGR added. 

It's a good instrument, but it just fails the "do it right the first time" test. The difference in cost between the install of the EDM-900 and the install of the CGR might be $200 for a fabricated bracket to hold it in place of the current stock cluster. Or just stick it in the 3" hole for no difference in cost of installation. But then you're done. You might later do a full panel overhaul and move the instrument, but you won't be replacing it.

It might look like I just throw money at my Mooney, but those who know, realize I've done my panel for less than 50% of retail cost. And that does include taking small steps, but only steps that I won't have to backtrack and redo.

To clear up any confusion, the Premium version of the CGR-30P always includes RPM, EGT and CHT.  You have your choice of five additional primary functions (required instruments with limits/redlines) and five non-primary functions (OAT, carb temp, flight time, etc.)  Additionally, we are currently offering a $1000.00 rebate on our CGR-30COMBO package which prices it very attractively.

Edited September 19, 2018 by oregon87

[johncuyle]

After looking at the available options, I decided that the large format displays over on the right side of the panel were probably not what I wanted, so the 930 and MVP-50 were not good options.  At that point my only real choices were the EDM-900 or CGR-30 P/C combo.  I looked at both instruments at shows a couple times and flew with a CGR-30P in another plane and the CGR's displays always seemed easier to read and nicer to look at.  The two 3" holes were a much better fit for the panel in my K model than the odd-sized EDM-900.  I'm having a CGR-30 P/C combo installed in my 231 at annual, which is happening right now, and having all the old gauges it replaces removed.  I am very much looking forward to flying behind it.

Additional:  I ordered through Avionics Source.  They were very helpful throughout the process and EI was very responsive whenever I spoke directly to them.  I've anecdotally heard good things about support through the installation process from shops and I'm expecting that to go as smoothly as anything this significant ever does.  I would recommend working with your A&P/installer to do the order, though.  You'll certainly have thoughts on the layout, but some of the information about various sensor functionality and limitations is something that a typical owner/pilot isn't likely to know but Mooney mechanic will have no problem providing.  This is not a criticism of EI or Chase at Avionics Source, they were very helpful and responsive, more an acknowledgment of my own limitations as "just the meat servo".

[gsxrpilot]

6 hours ago, johncuyle said:

After looking at the available options, I decided that the large format displays over on the right side of the panel were probably not what I wanted, so the 930 and MVP-50 were not good options.  At that point my only real choices were the EDM-900 or CGR-30 P/C combo.  I looked at both instruments at shows a couple times and flew with a CGR-30P in another plane and the CGR's displays always seemed easier to read and nicer to look at.  The two 3" holes were a much better fit for the panel in my K model than the odd-sized EDM-900.  I'm having a CGR-30 P/C combo installed in my 231 at annual, which is happening right now, and having all the old gauges it replaces removed.  I am very much looking forward to flying behind it.

Additional:  I ordered through Avionics Source.  They were very helpful throughout the process and EI was very responsive whenever I spoke directly to them.  I've anecdotally heard good things about support through the installation process from shops and I'm expecting that to go as smoothly as anything this significant ever does.  I would recommend working with your A&P/installer to do the order, though.  You'll certainly have thoughts on the layout, but some of the information about various sensor functionality and limitations is something that a typical owner/pilot isn't likely to know but Mooney mechanic will have no problem providing.  This is not a criticism of EI or Chase at Avionics Source, they were very helpful and responsive, more an acknowledgment of my own limitations as "just the meat servo".

Interesting... what was the cost comparison between the EDM900 and the CGR30 p/c combo?

[Piloto]

7 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Interesting... what was the cost comparison between the EDM900 and the CGR30 p/c combo?

I have the simple EI UBG-16 with EGTs/CHTs volts f, fuel flow and OAT in scanning mode. It works pretty well. I like the factory instruments on my 1982 m20J, easy to read and reliable.

José

[kris_adams]

13 hours ago, johncuyle said:

After looking at the available options, I decided that the large format displays over on the right side of the panel were probably not what I wanted

I agree with you John.  I love having my CGR-30 P/C  on the left of the radio stack.  I'm sure you will really like what your getting installed.  Additionally I really like the alert panels (not sure what they call them) that flash amber or red lights when something unusual is reported.

[johncuyle]

On ‎9‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 10:37 PM, gsxrpilot said:

Interesting... what was the cost comparison between the EDM900 and the CGR30 p/c combo?

I didn't look too hard at that.  The 900's form factor and display quality didn't work for me and the CGR Combo's price was acceptable, so I went with it.  The other option I considered is the Garmin G500 based solution, but a standalone install is very cost prohibitive.

[carusoam]

JPI word for the remote display...  RAD... remote alarm display

Bob taught me this one...

really helpful if the main display is mounted in front of the copilot.  

The RAD puts MP and RPM in front of the pilot along with any alarms that get distributed...

Best regards,

-a-

[Steve W]

16 hours ago, carusoam said:

The RAD puts MP and RPM in front of the pilot along with any alarms that get distributed...

 

Only if you spring for the 930... those of us with the 900 only get a single LED. But, the 900 is also small enough to fit in my left panel, so it's not like I'll have to look far for those numbers.