M20k 305

[Jerry 5TJ]

On 5/29/2019 at 9:09 AM, RocketAviator said:

.....I am now flying at 34 MP, 2375 Prop and 16.0 gph at 190 TAS down low @ 11-12....

Per the Rocket Engineering power chart:  34”/2400 is ~80% power, right?   The chart suggests FF should be closer to 25 GPH.  

[RocketAviator]

I have more than 1200hrs on my Rocket and have flown it basically in two general configurations.  Cruise at 40-60 with as high as 80 LOP at full MP 37" @ 16.1 - 17.1 GPH which is what I ran for more than 700 hrs.  Then I changed based on some testing to 34" MP @ 2375 RPM @ 16.1 - 16.7 GPH @ 190-195 TAS @ 12.  I have a highly tuned GAMI set of injectors that I spent an inordinate amount of time with GAMI working out over several months.  I also have extra GAMI injectors that I sometimes change at annuals when the fuel flow per cylinder is not as desired.  I always cruise with a CHT of less than 380 and TIT of 1600 to 1625, I have found my limiting factor is TIT.

Although my flying has slowed considerably over the last two years with only around 140 hrs last year.  In just over 1200 hrs I have only recently (this month) had one cylinder which needed to have 1 valve lapped other than that my compressions and all cylinders have done remarkably well.  I borescope them at every annual and change the oil every 50 hrs.  Which coincides with the 50 hr exhaust AD....

On a couple of occasions I have test flown at the Rocket recommended power and FF settings and there is no question the speed improves but not the other overall elements I consider important #1 is CHT, # 2 TIT and #3 is fuel management/cost #4  overall wear and tear on the engine itself...   Again this is just what has worked for me and I am comfortable with it and so far has proven to be an effective approach for my missions and desires.

 

 

[Don]

Hi Richard:

I got an e-mail note that you were asking what my fuel flow was in climb. If I recall correctly it was 35 gph at full power, which was my SOP. The more important thing is making sure what ever the fuel flow is it is sufficient to keep the EGT's at 1250 - 1300 F to keep the engine cool and safe from detonation and overheating. I flew it LOP all the time with no loss of speed. Prior to being able to fly it LOP my power settings were 2450 @ 29" MAP for a fuel flow of 29 GPH, which was 100 ROP . If I tried to run LOP the TIT's would shoot to 1685 F 

After the trips to GAMI I flew it at 2450 @ 33" MAP with fuel flows of 15.5 GPH. Before I could run it LOP i had to do a top OH, turned out I had several stuck rings and worn valve guides at 250 hrs since major with new ECI Cerminil cylinders. I flew it 750 hrs after the top LOP with little to no change in leak downs and saved a bundle of money from the fuel savings. 

[RocketAviator]

A bit off topic but since this appears to be an area of Rocket interest I thought I would take this opportunity to post a PIREP on my recent experiences with Rocket Engineering.

First based on recommendations I received from this MS I elected to contact Rocket in lieu of Dawley who I have used in the past with excellent results on my first airplane.

Rocket Engineering seemed to be very reasonable in their estimate (under Dawley by around $150) but that wasn't the main reason I decided to go with Rocket.  Rocket stated they had the "right" fixtures for my Rocket exhaust and could get the job done in about a week.  Wow sounded like a win... win.  Patrick their sales/customer support guy started out with what appeared to be great customer support and answered all my questions and concerns so we shipped him the exhaust for repair.  Upon receiving the parts as is often the case they wanted to see the other parts (which we specifically asked Rocket if they wanted us to send with the first shipment), I could easily accept that once they saw the parts it would be best to have the other parts to ensure the best fit...  Then things went from bad to unbelievable bad and worse...  initial quote $1100 to repair... I asked Patrick if Rocket would add / weld on two threaded bosses for the primary and backup TIT, he assured me they could and would if I have the parts I wanted to be shipped to Rocket ASAP... So I spent $100 overnight said parts to Rocket.  I also requested ALL new gaskets and turbo flange bolts etc which Patrick assured me he would include.  Then things went south....  I could not get updates on the status going weeks without responses, unanswered phone calls, texts, and emails.... Then I received a note that their welder had died then that apparently changed from their welder died to someone in the welder family died then they could not get the right material, then they were swamped and then nothing again for more than 10 days.... With over 2 months since Rocket had received my first shipment for repair, by this time I had lost all respect and patients with Patrick and asked to speak with the owner Darwin who I was promised would call me.... Darwin did not call me as promised, he called my A& P and told him "things were really rough" and assured him the exhaust would be completed and shipped by end of that week....  You guessed it did not ship and it was another 2 1/2 weeks until we received the parts with me contacting or at least attempting to contact them on a semi-daily basis...  a full 3 months had transpired up to this point.  During each of my contacts at first every week - 10 days, with an ending frequency of twice a week (all in writing),  each time I requested an update on any charges and delivery status.  I never received a single reply, not one!  Then I got the magical email that the exhaust was completed and I needed to contact Rocket to make arrangements for payment and shipping....  When I got the bill of more than $3800 with NO more than what was originally estimated for repair I about had a heart attack... as it turned out the other parts were sandblasted and cleaned but only the 2 original parts were actually repaired and the bosses were NOT welded on as promised.  I was flatly told that was the bill and if I wanted my exhaust that is what I would have to pay, I again asked to talk to Darwin but he oddly was not available.  I inquired again if that included all the bolts and gaskets and everything that was promised and was assured it did....  I wrote a very detailed note explaining all the promises and the number of times I had requested an update on charges that had never been responded to as well as the extream delays thereby outlining Rockets failure to keep their commitments in both, quoted price, time and work promised to end by withholding my parts for what I felt was ransom at a price more than triple of that quoted with no more done than originally quoted.   I called once again and Patrick said: "he understood and had asked Darwin why they even messed with Rocket support and hoped he would just get rid of all the Rocket stuff"... but he had talked to Darwin the fees would have to be paid if I wanted my exhaust... effectively holding my parts hostage, I succumbed paid the bill with recorded protest.  The parts arrived well should I say some of the parts arrived yep, no bolts, no gaskets all of which we had to source externally.... All in all the most disappointing and unbelievable experience I have ever had with any Aviation company.

I will never do business with Rocket again.  I have never pursued any company for non-performance nor ever even threatened to but this may be an exception..   I have never outright publicly posted any direct recommendation to NOT DO BUSINESS with any company, but I felt it important to note my experience.  I welcome Rocket Engineerings response should they have the integrity to do so, however, I suspect this is not the appropriate forum for such.

I apologize for being so long winded but this short overview does not even come close to properly explaining the frustration I had with what I truly believe was very inappropriate business practices.

The good news is after we sourced the gaskets and special turbo flange bolts elsewhere the system went together very well and I have now made two fights with over 10 hrs and all seems well.

So for an $11000 annual (with over $4000 going to Rocket Engineering), I have my ol bucket of bolts in the air again....

[Cody Stallings]

On 5/29/2019 at 7:03 AM, Richard Knapp said:

RocketAviator, can you tell us what TAS you get at 9.5 GPH in your Rocket.  Also, what speed you are at with 1200fpm climb at 33.2 GPH?  Do you have TKS? It would be helpful to me to know. Thanks!

His speed going up is faster than a 172 gets across the ground...lol

[LANCECASPER]

7 hours ago, RocketAviator said:

A bit off topic but since this appears to be an area of Rocket interest I thought I would take this opportunity to post a PIREP on my recent experiences with Rocket Engineering.

First based on recommendations I received from this MS I elected to contact Rocket in lieu of Dawley who I have used in the past with excellent results on my first airplane.

Rocket Engineering seemed to be very reasonable in their estimate (under Dawley by around $150) but that wasn't the main reason I decided to go with Rocket.  Rocket stated they had the "right" fixtures for my Rocket exhaust and could get the job done in about a week.  Wow sounded like a win... win.  Patrick their sales/customer support guy started out with what appeared to be great customer support and answered all my questions and concerns so we shipped him the exhaust for repair.  Upon receiving the parts as is often the case they wanted to see the other parts (which we specifically asked Rocket if they wanted us to send with the first shipment), I could easily accept that once they saw the parts it would be best to have the other parts to ensure the best fit...  Then things went from bad to unbelievable bad and worse...  initial quote $1100 to repair... I asked Patrick if Rocket would add / weld on two threaded bosses for the primary and backup TIT, he assured me they could and would if I have the parts I wanted to be shipped to Rocket ASAP... So I spent $100 overnight said parts to Rocket.  I also requested ALL new gaskets and turbo flange bolts etc which Patrick assured me he would include.  Then things went south....  I could not get updates on the status going weeks without responses, unanswered phone calls, texts, and emails.... Then I received a note that their welder had died then that apparently changed from their welder died to someone in the welder family died then they could not get the right material, then they were swamped and then nothing again for more than 10 days.... With over 2 months since Rocket had received my first shipment for repair, by this time I had lost all respect and patients with Patrick and asked to speak with the owner Darwin who I was promised would call me.... Darwin did not call me as promised, he called my A& P and told him "things were really rough" and assured him the exhaust would be completed and shipped by end of that week....  You guessed it did not ship and it was another 2 1/2 weeks until we received the parts with me contacting or at least attempting to contact them on a semi-daily basis...  a full 3 months had transpired up to this point.  During each of my contacts at first every week - 10 days, with an ending frequency of twice a week (all in writing),  each time I requested an update on any charges and delivery status.  I never received a single reply, not one!  Then I got the magical email that the exhaust was completed and I needed to contact Rocket to make arrangements for payment and shipping....  When I got the bill of more than $3800 with NO more than what was originally estimated for repair I about had a heart attack... as it turned out the other parts were sandblasted and cleaned but only the 2 original parts were actually repaired and the bosses were NOT welded on as promised.  I was flatly told that was the bill and if I wanted my exhaust that is what I would have to pay, I again asked to talk to Darwin but he oddly was not available.  I inquired again if that included all the bolts and gaskets and everything that was promised and was assured it did....  I wrote a very detailed note explaining all the promises and the number of times I had requested an update on charges that had never been responded to as well as the extream delays thereby outlining Rockets failure to keep their commitments in both, quoted price, time and work promised to end by withholding my parts for what I felt was ransom at a price more than triple of that quoted with no more done than originally quoted.   I called once again and Patrick said: "he understood and had asked Darwin why they even messed with Rocket support and hoped he would just get rid of all the Rocket stuff"... but he had talked to Darwin the fees would have to be paid if I wanted my exhaust... effectively holding my parts hostage, I succumbed paid the bill with recorded protest.  The parts arrived well should I say some of the parts arrived yep, no bolts, no gaskets all of which we had to source externally.... All in all the most disappointing and unbelievable experience I have ever had with any Aviation company.

I will never do business with Rocket again.  I have never pursued any company for non-performance nor ever even threatened to but this may be an exception..   I have never outright publicly posted any direct recommendation to NOT DO BUSINESS with any company, but I felt it important to note my experience.  I welcome Rocket Engineerings response should they have the integrity to do so, however, I suspect this is not the appropriate forum for such.

I apologize for being so long winded but this short overview does not even come close to properly explaining the frustration I had with what I truly believe was very inappropriate business practices.

The good news is after we sourced the gaskets and special turbo flange bolts elsewhere the system went together very well and I have now made two fights with over 10 hrs and all seems well.

So for an $11000 annual (with over $4000 going to Rocket Engineering), I have my ol bucket of bolts in the air again....

If you had a written quote I would dispute it with your credit card company.

[RocketAviator]

My wife said the same  LANCECASPER!  I will call the CC company today.  I don't want to be unfair and I do want to pay for what they provided at the cost the quoted and would have paid for any additional work or service they provided had they provided any!

[RocketAviator]

I guess I am a gluten for punishment... I just had to reach out to Rocket one last time and inform them that it had been almost a month since I requested Darwin the owner to contact me regarding this situation and that I would be pursuing undesired actions....   Will see what occurs but I will call and dispute the charge before the day is up if I have not heard from Rocket by mid-afternoon.  I just hate it when business dealings sink to this level!! 

[M016576]

That is unfortunate- my dealing with for a new exhaust for my Missile was timely and on the quote.  I wonder what’s going on over there.

[LANCECASPER]

5 hours ago, RocketAviator said:

I guess I am a gluten for punishment... I just had to reach out to Rocket one last time and inform them that it had been almost a month since I requested Darwin the owner to contact me regarding this situation and that I would be pursuing undesired actions....   Will see what occurs but I will call and dispute the charge before the day is up if I have not heard from Rocket by mid-afternoon.  I just hate it when business dealings sink to this level!! 

Take all of the emotion out of it - this is a business transaction. If you have a written quote from them, you have grounds to dispute their charges. Keep it simple when explaining it to your credit card company, don't get bogged down in the details. you don't owe the merchant a warning to allow them to start planning their response to the credit card company. If they are as disorganized as it appears they are, they will miss the notice of dispute, will not respond to the credit card processing company and the credit card company will find in your favor.

[aviatoreb]

Im sorry to hear this. My dealings in the past, including a comparable exhaust rebuild replace about 8 years ago, were all fantastic in every way.  But its been 3 years or so since I needed to contact them in any way.  I hope this is a temporary hiccup and that they do right by you and they return to good service for all of us.

[AlexLev]

On 5/30/2019 at 3:28 PM, RocketAviator said:

A bit off topic but since this appears to be an area of Rocket interest I thought I would take this opportunity to post a PIREP on my recent experiences with Rocket Engineering.

First based on recommendations I received from this MS I elected to contact Rocket in lieu of Dawley who I have used in the past with excellent results on my first airplane.

Rocket Engineering seemed to be very reasonable in their estimate (under Dawley by around $150) but that wasn't the main reason I decided to go with Rocket.  Rocket stated they had the "right" fixtures for my Rocket exhaust and could get the job done in about a week.  Wow sounded like a win... win.  Patrick their sales/customer support guy started out with what appeared to be great customer support and answered all my questions and concerns so we shipped him the exhaust for repair.  Upon receiving the parts as is often the case they wanted to see the other parts (which we specifically asked Rocket if they wanted us to send with the first shipment), I could easily accept that once they saw the parts it would be best to have the other parts to ensure the best fit...  Then things went from bad to unbelievable bad and worse...  initial quote $1100 to repair... I asked Patrick if Rocket would add / weld on two threaded bosses for the primary and backup TIT, he assured me they could and would if I have the parts I wanted to be shipped to Rocket ASAP... So I spent $100 overnight said parts to Rocket.  I also requested ALL new gaskets and turbo flange bolts etc which Patrick assured me he would include.  Then things went south....  I could not get updates on the status going weeks without responses, unanswered phone calls, texts, and emails.... Then I received a note that their welder had died then that apparently changed from their welder died to someone in the welder family died then they could not get the right material, then they were swamped and then nothing again for more than 10 days.... With over 2 months since Rocket had received my first shipment for repair, by this time I had lost all respect and patients with Patrick and asked to speak with the owner Darwin who I was promised would call me.... Darwin did not call me as promised, he called my A& P and told him "things were really rough" and assured him the exhaust would be completed and shipped by end of that week....  You guessed it did not ship and it was another 2 1/2 weeks until we received the parts with me contacting or at least attempting to contact them on a semi-daily basis...  a full 3 months had transpired up to this point.  During each of my contacts at first every week - 10 days, with an ending frequency of twice a week (all in writing),  each time I requested an update on any charges and delivery status.  I never received a single reply, not one!  Then I got the magical email that the exhaust was completed and I needed to contact Rocket to make arrangements for payment and shipping....  When I got the bill of more than $3800 with NO more than what was originally estimated for repair I about had a heart attack... as it turned out the other parts were sandblasted and cleaned but only the 2 original parts were actually repaired and the bosses were NOT welded on as promised.  I was flatly told that was the bill and if I wanted my exhaust that is what I would have to pay, I again asked to talk to Darwin but he oddly was not available.  I inquired again if that included all the bolts and gaskets and everything that was promised and was assured it did....  I wrote a very detailed note explaining all the promises and the number of times I had requested an update on charges that had never been responded to as well as the extream delays thereby outlining Rockets failure to keep their commitments in both, quoted price, time and work promised to end by withholding my parts for what I felt was ransom at a price more than triple of that quoted with no more done than originally quoted.   I called once again and Patrick said: "he understood and had asked Darwin why they even messed with Rocket support and hoped he would just get rid of all the Rocket stuff"... but he had talked to Darwin the fees would have to be paid if I wanted my exhaust... effectively holding my parts hostage, I succumbed paid the bill with recorded protest.  The parts arrived well should I say some of the parts arrived yep, no bolts, no gaskets all of which we had to source externally.... All in all the most disappointing and unbelievable experience I have ever had with any Aviation company.

 I will never do business with Rocket again.  I have never pursued any company for non-performance nor ever even threatened to but this may be an exception..   I have never outright publicly posted any direct recommendation to NOT DO BUSINESS with any company, but I felt it important to note my experience.  I welcome Rocket Engineerings response should they have the integrity to do so, however, I suspect this is not the appropriate forum for such.

 I apologize for being so long winded but this short overview does not even come close to properly explaining the frustration I had with what I truly believe was very inappropriate business practices.

The good news is after we sourced the gaskets and special turbo flange bolts elsewhere the system went together very well and I have now made two fights with over 10 hrs and all seems well.

 So for an $11000 annual (with over $4000 going to Rocket Engineering), I have my ol bucket of bolts in the air again....

So sorry to read. Keep us posted on how the dispute goes if you go through with it.

[PJClark]

FWIW:  I closed on my Rocket on 22 May, it's in the paint shop. Reveal in a few weeks.

I flew it from Jimmy Garrison's to Don Maxwell's in Longview and back. On the way there:  7500 MSL, 30 " MP, 2200 RPM, 17.3 gph, 185 KTAS, 1500 TIT I'm not certain that was right 'cause I couldn't relally see the OAT setting very well on the airspeed indicateor.  at 10,500 MSL, 30" MP, 2200 rpm, 17.3 gph:  192KTS at 8 deg C OAT.  1500 TIT so running pretty rich of peak.

  It's a glorious machine!

[RocketAviator]

Congratulations.... welcome to the go fast Mooney Rocket world.. I pray you enjoy your Rocket as much as I have mine.

Your numbers sound great.

I flew back from Dallas to El Paso today @ mostly 10 & a little at 8.  16.8 @ 2375 34MP 188 KTAS, mostly had 7-18kt headwind....argh 

Now come join us in the Texas Wing and Mooney Caravan to Oshkosh....  I won’t make Oshkosh this year but plan to next!  

I did fly formation this week with a group of Mooney’s and the Honor Missing Man flight for Mike Miles the Mooney test pilots who had great influence and was a great guy in keepin Mooney alive in the dark years!

Stay in touch and if your ever in the El Paso or Granbury area give me a shout and we’ll try to meet up.

 

[PJClark]

Thanks.  It's in paint until early July, then the plan is a couple days' training, fly it to Greely, CO, where we'll gut the panel and install a G3X system with all the goodies.  Back home to Ohio in early August I hope.

that burns up the summer, but next year...!