Spatial Disorientation

[ragedracer1977]

I finally experienced it.

It's a pretty nice evening and I decided to just go tool around a little.  Moon is waxing crescent and low in the sky, less than 20% illumination.  I took off from KDVT and headed north out of town.  My plan was to follow the highway, roughly, to ensure terrain clearance.  I've flown 30+ hours at night, but it's all either been from field to field in the Phoenix area with plenty of ground lights or nights with a pretty bright moon that made differentiating the horizon pretty easy.  Not tonight.  As I left the city lights behind, the moon was behind my left shoulder so I couldn't even see it.  The only thing I could really see on the ground was the headlights on the highway.  

It was DARK.  I couldn't see any horizon at all.  My body started telling me I was in a left bank.  A pretty good left bank and I wanted for all the world to bank right to level the plane.  Only problem was, my instruments were telling me I was straight and level.  I'm pretty deep into my instrument training right now (12.7hrs in a AATD sim and 13.8 in my plane under the hood) so I felt comfortable just following the instruments and ignoring my 'senses'.  

It was really quite shocking how powerful the desire was to correct the bank.  I can really understand now how you can become disoriented (like JFK Jr.) and lose control.  I spoke to my CFII after the flight (he was also my PPL CFI) and told him about the experience and also that I felt like he needed to change up his training.  We did quite a bit of night flying for the PPL, but it was all done either around the city with plenty of reference or under the hood, so we could get simulated instrument and night at the same time - saving me time and $.  I really think he owes it to his students to take them out on a moonless night with no ground reference and let them try to fly as if it's VMC.  

It was totally different experience than being under the hood or recovering from an unusual attitude.  I really think I might have had a problem if I wasn't so far into my instrument rating.

[gsxrpilot]

I had a similar experience shortly after completing the PP. On a solo night flight from Dallas to OKC I was seeing fewer and fewer lights and eventually lost all horizon reference. For some reason I decided to turn on my landing light and discovered I was IMC in the clouds. I turned off the light and went back to flying the airplane. But very carefully started a level standard rate 180 degree turn. After leveling off and flying straight for a few minutes, I started seeing lights again. I flew straight back to Dallas, parked the plane and drove to OKC that night. I called my CFI and signed up for an Instrument rating the next day.

Now 10 years later, I'm very comfortable in IMC, but also very aware of how perishable the skills are and maintaining currency is the bare minimum for safe IFR flight.

The good news is that an Instrument Rating for a Mooney owner really opens up a world of possibilities.

[Hank]

3 hours ago, ragedracer1977 said:

It was DARK.  I couldn't see any horizon at all.  My body started telling me I was in a left bank.  A pretty good left bank and I wanted for all the world to bank right to level the plane . . . .  I really think I might have had a problem if I wasn't so far into my instrument rating.

I think you're right. 

I've done a fair amount of night flying away from town, including XC over the coal fields of southern WV and eastern KY. Heading north away from Charlotte, the view is incredible with the city spread below. Then it fades away at the VA line, and KY is a black hole. But it never gave me any problem, mostly because I trained over pretty isolated areas?

My only spatial D was in the clouds with my CFII once, we fell out the bottom of the clouds in a turn . . . Then there was an unexpected black hole departure after I moved back south, leaving 06A on 13 at night. There's not much to see departing 31, but there is nothing at all leaving 13, not even off to either side. Took me by surprise, so I quickly went on the gages, turned crosswind and was soon high enough to see a few lights. 

Ya'll be careful out there!

[Jim Peace]

trust your instruments.....if you plan on doing a lot of night flying or IMC you really should have three ADIs.

One may be wrong so you compare it to the second,,,but which is correct?  

Must have a tie breaker

[cbarry]

While you’re  at it, it might  also be a good idea when visiting with your CFII for you to suggest various types of other training circumstances you would like to explore that may not be a part of the standard instrument training.  Take a look at what your flight missions are and ask him to help you simulate/train for the various types of situations you’re likely to encounter day or night—it could be AMUs very well spent!

[steingar]

I am terrified to fly at night over sparsely populated terrain for fear of black hole conditions. There’s a fun Labor Day party on the UP I haven’t done in years because of this. It’ll change if or when I get the IR (two avionics shops won’t return my calls).

[Hank]

8 minutes ago, steingar said:

two avionics shops won’t return my calls.

Try Ben at New Philadelphia, it's not too far east of Columbus.

888-GPS-DUDE, the area Garmin rep. He did my 430WAAS update, may have done the install for the previous owner (GPS, transponder, etc., including hookup to Brittain AccuTrak and AccuFlite).

Edited October 26, 2017 by Hank

[ragedracer1977]

1 hour ago, cbarry said:

While you’re  at it, it might  also be a good idea when visiting with your CFII for you to suggest various types of other training circumstances you would like to explore that may not be a part of the standard instrument training.  Take a look at what your flight missions are and ask him to help you simulate/train for the various types of situations you’re likely to encounter day or night—it could be AMUs very well spent!

Absolutely.  We had a pretty good conversation about it last night.  It's difficult to find actual IMC in Arizona.  When it happens it's either known icing or thunderstorms, so...  We're going to try to find some in SoCal and fly out there just for that.  

At this point, I've pretty much decided I'd like to go through to at least CFI.  Maybe CFII.  So we're going to start throwing some commercial stuff into the instrument training.  

I took my first discovery flight 9/11/16.  As of today, I have 177 hours.  80+ hours cross country with several flights that were 'real' XC.  Including from KDVT to KMSY (New Orleans).  I like flying.  I usually go fly at least twice a week, often 3 or 4 times a week.  

[smccray]

12 minutes ago, ragedracer1977 said:

Absolutely.  We had a pretty good conversation about it last night.  It's difficult to find actual IMC in Arizona.  When it happens it's either known icing or thunderstorms, so...  We're going to try to find some in SoCal and fly out there just for that.  

At this point, I've pretty much decided I'd like to go through to at least CFI.  Maybe CFII.  So we're going to start throwing some commercial stuff into the instrument training.  

I took my first discovery flight 9/11/16.  As of today, I have 177 hours.  80+ hours cross country with several flights that were 'real' XC.  Including from KDVT to KMSY (New Orleans).  I like flying.  I usually go fly at least twice a week, often 3 or 4 times a week.  

I don't have a lot of experience flying in AZ, but isn't flying over the desert at night essentially IMC?  I treat flying across west Texas at night as IMC.  I don't do it often as I'm generally coming back into DFW late in the day and I get dusk as I fly east bound and I'm in DFW by night, but I always fly IFR.

[ragedracer1977]

Just now, smccray said:

I don't have a lot of experience flying in AZ, but isn't flying over the desert at night essentially IMC?  I treat flying across west Texas at night as IMC.  I don't do it often as I'm generally coming back into DFW late in the day and I get dusk as I fly east bound and I'm in DFW by night, but I always fly IFR.

I'm not sure about logging it, but yes, for intents and purposes last night was IMC.

[smccray]

1 hour ago, steingar said:

I am terrified to fly at night over sparsely populated terrain for fear of black hole conditions. There’s a fun Labor Day party on the UP I haven’t done in years because of this. It’ll change if or when I get the IR (two avionics shops won’t return my calls).

Not a bad thing to be afraid of. I nearly got sucked into a black hole approach when flying off my solo hours right after I bought my plane. Now- I always load a glideslope and I don't land at night if I don't have a ground based (PAPI/VASI) or an instrument approach with a glideslope.

i don't do a lot of night landings except at my hope airport. 

[RLCarter]

5 hours ago, Jim Peace said:

trust your instruments.....if you plan on doing a lot of night flying or IMC you really should have three ADIs.

One may be wrong so you compare it to the second,,,but which is correct?  

Must have a tie breaker

Never heard of an ADI, what is it?

[Jerry 5TJ]

Your flight over dark terrain on a moonless night was a classic "VFR into IMC conditions" scenario.   It was legal as a VFR flight but not flyable without an artificial horizon.        

[PTK]

8 hours ago, RLCarter said:

Never heard of an ADI, what is it?

ADI stands for attitude director indicator. It's an attitude indicator incorporating a flight director in same instrument. The flight director provides the computed pitch and roll commands from the autopilot required to fly a certain flight path for the pilot to mannually follow. Or if engaged the autopilot will follow and satisfy. Example: the KI 256 is the ADI in a KFC 150 autopilot.

[Hank]

9 hours ago, Jim Peace said:

trust your instruments.....if you plan on doing a lot of night flying or IMC you really should have three ADIs.

One may be wrong so you compare it to the second,,,but which is correct?  

Must have a tie breaker

Know any light GA withn3three? The Space Shuttle doesn't count.

The only planes I know with even a 2nd one are those glass panels that require a backup, although not necessarily in a good spot (I've seen some backups on the far right edge of the panel . . . not a good spot if the TV fails in actual IMC).

Seriously, this is why FAA requires, and CFIIs teach, backup instruments. If my AI shows a left turn, but the DG is steady, vacuum gage is in the green and TC doesn't show a bank, I know the AI is wrong without having two more to check it against.

[Jerry 5TJ]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

Know any light GA withn3three?...

My 2000 M20R had 3 separate AHRS and zero mechanical gyroscopes.  

My current P46T has 4 separate Attitude sources: two spinning gyros and two solid-state.

I'm  including in those counts the AHRS provided by the FlightStream 210.  I don't count the TC because it is not an attitude indicator.

I haven't owned a plane with only one attitude reference since 1991

Edited October 26, 2017 by Jerry 5TJ

[Andy95W]

Looks like all the rest of us have to stop flying in IMC...

[jaylw314]

12 hours ago, ragedracer1977 said:

I'm not sure about logging it, but yes, for intents and purposes last night was IMC.

I forget where I read it (I think one of Rod Machado's books), but he pointed out logging instrument time was "flight solely by reference to instruments."  If you are flying over desert on a moonless night, you can and should be logging IFR time, although he suggested making a comment in your logbook entry about WHY any questionable IFR time was logged that way in case anyone from the FAA asks questions.

[bradp]

I also log time for instrument currency if I’m on the final approach segment and less than legal VMC.  Not necessarily in cloud but if I can’t be legal VFR I’m logging instrument time.