New Mooney Buyer Needs Insurance Suggestions

[LANCECASPER]

In 30 years of buying airplane insurance I get quotes from two brokers - trust but verify. Years ago a broker didn't pass on the cheapest quote, he only gave me the two most expensive to choose from, even though I found out later that he received all three quotes. I think the "don't get quotes from two different brokers" theory was started by a broker.

[RobertGary1]

2 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

In 30 years of buying airplane insurance I get quotes from two brokers - trust but verify. Years ago a broker didn't pass on the cheapest quote, he only gave me the two most expensive to choose from, even though I found out later that he received all three quotes. I think the "don't get quotes from two different brokers" theory was started by a broker.

Very true. You need to use one of the legitimate brokers who will shop all the (small number) of underwriters that will write your type of policy. A lot of local generic insurances folks aren't equipped to do that.

 

-Robert

[Parker_Woodruff]

42 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

Very true. You need to use one of the legitimate brokers who will shop all the (small number) of underwriters that will write your type of policy. A lot of local generic insurances folks aren't equipped to do that.

 

-Robert

It's not a small number anymore...

Lots of competition...

Rates are cheap...

[RobertGary1]

1 minute ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

It's not a small number anymore...

Lots of competition...

Rates are cheap...

The biggest thing I've seen is more companies entering the high time pilot market. That's really held my personal rates down. Previously some of these underwriters didn't want to enter the red ocean. For pre-private pilots in complex airplanes I wouldn't be surprised if there number of underwriters was still small though.

-Robert

[Hank]

1 hour ago, RobertGary1 said:

I would be shocked if any broker would cut their commission, and in some states I'd bet its not legal. If you're getting different rates from different brokers its because they're tweaking the parameters, reducing liability, etc. The quotes are 99% computer generated so any rate difference between brokers is because they put something else in the computer. If you are in a very uncommon situation its possible a broker may be able to negotiate different training requirements but not different rates.

-Robert

When I bought my Mooney with 62 hours in my logbook, the quotes were literally all over the map, from "No Quote" to $4000+ and gobs of dual and solo time [10-15 dual + 5-10 solo]. Settled with one company for an outrageous [to me] amount and 15 hours dual, including 5 hours simulated or real IMC, from a Mooney instructor they approved of [the guy I bought the plane from . . . ]. No required solo time, so the day after I finished up, I flew the wife to lunch across the state!    Hey, I had over 80 hours' time by then, including finishing up the last 10 hours I'd paid for at the FBO.

The first year, I flew almost exactly 100 hours, and that cut my premium almost exactly in half. The next year's renewal was identical, so the second hundred hours did nothing. But then I got serious about Instruments, and when I finished that up, my rates fell by another third, and hovered in the same general ballpark {~$1100].

Then I moved, my old broker wouldn't cover me being based 3 Mooney hours away, and I changed to Falcon and saved another $300.

So now, with the same declared value all along, ~800 Mooney hours and another dozen or so in a Bonanza, I'm paying ~$850.

[RobertGary1]

I wonder why your broker cared how far away you were. Was he not licensed in your state? My broker is about 6 Mooney hours away and I've never actually seen him. But I've had two accident claims and he handled the process great each time. Each year my rates have gone down although in the last 5 or so only bit a bit as I'm probably about as low as it can go at this point.

 

-Robert

[Skates97]

6 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

I would be shocked if any broker would cut their commission, and in some states I'd bet its not legal. If you're getting different rates from different brokers its because they're tweaking the parameters, reducing liability, etc. The quotes are 99% computer generated so any rate difference between brokers is because they put something else in the computer. If you are in a very uncommon situation its possible a broker may be able to negotiate different training requirements but not different rates.

-Robert

I can''t speak for other's experiences, but I can say shopping helped me out and the numbers below are just to illustrate that it can make a difference.

I can't comment on what they put into their computers, only that I supplied the same information to all of them. New PPL with 58.6 total hours and no complex time buying a 1965 M20D (although they used M20C as the model because it is converted to retract with CS prop). The coverage levels and deductibles that they all provided were the exact same. The only exception was that one was quoting $40k hull instead of $36k. All had used Starr as the underwriter. I will say that when I sent Falcon the US Aircraft quote they were surprised about the disparity and talked with a senior underwriter. The end result was a significant savings for me.

• AOPA - $36k Hull
  • Premium $2,099
  • 10 Dual / 5 Solo
• US Aircraft Insurance - $40k Hull
  • Premium $1,590
  • 5 Dual / 5 Solo
• Falcon - $36k Hull
  • Initial
    • Premium $1,938
    • 15 Dual / 10 Solo
  • Revised
    • Premium $1,525
    • 10 Dual / 5 Solo

The one that is not listed is Wendy Wenk with Wenk Aviation. She was extremely helpful. While she didn't give me a quote because I had already received the other quotes, she did give me advice on how to use the quotes from US Aircraft to get Falcon to reduce theirs. I wanted to stay with Falcon because as I said before they gave me a credit back on my renter's policy which could not be refunded but could be applied to the new premium. I will be giving Wendy the opportunity to give me a quote this year because she was so helpful.

 

[RobertGary1]

But who were the underwriters? Likely Falcon figured out who quoted the $1590 to US and they asked for a quote from that underwriter.

 

-Robert

[Skates97]

40 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

But who were the underwriters? Likely Falcon figured out who quoted the $1590 to US and they asked for a quote from that underwriter.

 

-Robert

I suppose that is possible. They were all underwritten by Starr. I don't know who the individual underwriters were at Starr, their name is not listed on the quote.

[LANCECASPER]

On 10/24/2017 at 10:26 AM, LANCECASPER said:

In 30 years of buying airplane insurance I get quotes from two brokers - trust but verify. Years ago a broker didn't pass on the cheapest quote, he only gave me the two most expensive to choose from, even though I found out later that he received all three quotes. I think the "don't get quotes from two different brokers" theory was started by a broker.

My renewal comes up November 18, so I sent off my information to AOPA and to Falcon. Once again Falcon gave me the best quote $1194 vs. $1667 from AOPA - they were btoh provided with identical information .

[RobertGary1]

1 hour ago, LANCECASPER said:

My renewal comes up November 18, so I sent off my information to AOPA and to Falcon. Once again Falcon gave me the best quote $1194 vs. $1667 from AOPA - they were btoh provided with identical information .

Yea, I wouldn't recommend AOPA. They're one of the few that don't shop the entire market as I understand. Who underwrote the Falcon quote ?

 

-Robert

[LANCECASPER]

Just now, RobertGary1 said:

Yea, I wouldn't recommend AOPA. They're one of the few that don't shop the entire market as I understand. Who underwrote the Falcon quote ?

 

-Robert

Global Aerospace

[RobertGary1]

12 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

Global Aerospace

That's who my best quote came from the last couple of years. This is a new market for them;as they previously focused on higher risk (higher dollar) pilots. Broker says they're trying to balance their risk portfolio with higher time pilots. The market is nicely very competitive right now.

-Robert

[ArtVandelay]

1 hour ago, LANCECASPER said:

Global Aerospace

I got mine from AOPA and it is Global as well, so don’t know what happened unless AOPA drop them since I renewed back in February.

[LANCECASPER]

14 hours ago, teejayevans said:

I got mine from AOPA and it is Global as well, so don’t know what happened unless AOPA drop them since I renewed back in February

I my case I think AOPA Insurance Agency figured that their commission on $1667 is a lot more than it is on $1194 and just didn't bother sharing that quote with me. My policies were with AOPA for many years (from 1985 - 2007?), but one year I felt that they were not doing the best for me. I got another quote and it was much better for the same coverage. I called back to AOPA and the person I spoke with before wasn't in, so I asked the person I reached to go over each of the quotes that they received with me. This person gave me a third quote which was never mentioned the first time which was considerably less for the same coverage. That told me everything I needed to know. I have used them occasionally in recent years just to make sure I'm getting a competitive quote. In my case they haven't changed - I think they are still giving me the highest two quotes they get.

[ArtVandelay]

Just now, LANCECASPER said:

I mine case I think AOPA Insurance Agency figured that their commission on $1667 is a lot more than it is on $1194 and just didn't bother sharing that quote with me.

I would call them abd ask what’s up.  If they did what you’re suggesting, I would terminate my membership.

[kpaul]

 

2 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

Yea, I wouldn't recommend AOPA. They're one of the few that don't shop the entire market as I understand. Who underwrote the Falcon quote ?

 

-Robert

I'm use AOPA and my renewal this year is through Global.

[HRM]

I have had good luck with Travers. Or at least I think I have 

[kpaul]

1 minute ago, LANCECASPER said:

I mine case I think AOPA Insurance Agency figured that their commission on $1667 is a lot more than it is on $1194 and just didn't bother sharing that quote with me.

I got two quotes from AOPA one with STARR for $1140 and Global for $833.  If they were just chasing commission they would have not showed me the Global quote as I was with STARR the past couple of years.

[Jerry 5TJ]

Focus on the lowest policy cost seems mis-directed.  You're buying coverage; buying an insurance policy that doesn't protect you is short-sighted.  

If you ever hurt someone with your airplane that $100,000 per person "coverage" will feel like a cruel joke you inflicted upon yourself.  

 

 

 

[jetdriven]

I'm pretty sure all those policies are 100 K sub limits. . Not even sure if a low time private pilot  can get 1 million smooth

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

Focus on the lowest policy cost seems mis-directed.  You're buying coverage; buying an insurance policy that doesn't protect you is short-sighted.  

If you ever hurt someone with your airplane that $100,000 per person "coverage" will feel like a cruel joke you inflicted upon yourself.  

 

 

 

The two quotes had exactly the same coverage. For exactly the same coverage I'll take the lower quote, even though they promised that the paper was a heavier 24 lb. bond on the more expensive policy . . lol

[kpaul]

3 hours ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

Focus on the lowest policy cost seems mis-directed.  You're buying coverage; buying an insurance policy that doesn't protect you is short-sighted.  

If you ever hurt someone with your airplane that $100,000 per person "coverage" will feel like a cruel joke you inflicted upon yourself.  

 

 

 

Both of my quotes had identical coverage.

[RobertGary1]

3 hours ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

Focus on the lowest policy cost seems mis-directed.  You're buying coverage; buying an insurance policy that doesn't protect you is short-sighted.  

If you ever hurt someone with your airplane that $100,000 per person "coverage" will feel like a cruel joke you inflicted upon yourself.  

 

 

 

How do you get different limits? I've never see a company offer other than 100K sublimits for piston singles. Usually it also requires annual training at a place like FlightSafety. 

-Robert

[KLRDMD]

1 hour ago, RobertGary1 said:

How do you get different limits? I've never see a company offer other than 100K sublimits for piston singles. Usually it also requires annual training at a place like FlightSafety. 

Just ask for it. I've had 1MM smooth for years and mostly except for the twins I've owned, recurrent training of any kind (other than FAA mandated minimums) have not been required (only a yearly IPC in twins and pressurized singles). I've never attended a formal school like Flight Safety even when I had a pressurized twin.