This is why I upgraded from a "J' to a "K"

[Danb]

Yep I ofter fly in the levels and agree with those that feel exhausted after 4-5 hours of flight, a couple weeks ago I cranked the O2 up more and it didn't make any difference still tired. I never let the O2 go under 95% saturation anyway, I guess I'm getting old.

[DonMuncy]

11 hours ago, M016576 said:

I admit that I have never flown with a o2 monitor, but I have taken recurrent chamber training for 15 years, and my day job has me flying on a mask up in the flight levels in a high performance jet- so I'm familiar with my personal hypoxia symptoms.  I still find that after a flight up in the flight levels in the unpressurized mooney I tend to be more tired than what I'd categorize as "normal".  Maybe I need to turn up the O-2.  I'm still leaning towards dehydration... just wondering if anyone else had noticed that they were more tired after a higher altitude flight.  Perhaps it could be an exhaust issue... but I feel fine while I'm flying.  Might just be in my head!

I am almost always "drained" after flying. I don't think mine is necessarily associated with high altitudes. I suspect it is a combination of hydration and O2. In spite of my trying, I breath through my mouth, so even when on O2, I still run low. I use a oximeter, but not continuously, and when I see the numbers dropping, I work at nose breathing, but quickly forget again.

[chrisk]

I usually feel great after a long high altitude flight, unless there is a weather issue causing stress.   Once you get to the flight levels, there realistically is no VFR traffic to look for, you don't have to fool with the altimeter settings, ATC typically leaves you alone (no switching to local controllers at every class C), and usually you are in clear smooth air.   I do wear a full face mask, which after 3 or 4 hours I am really ready to takeoff.   I also drink a lot, but don't have issues with elimination in front of others.  They are free to look another direction. 

All that said, I flew above 10,000 once with a cold ( caught it on the trip).  Never again! 

[peevee]

21 hours ago, DonMuncy said:

I am almost always "drained" after flying. I don't think mine is necessarily associated with high altitudes. I suspect it is a combination of hydration and O2. In spite of my trying, I breath through my mouth, so even when on O2, I still run low. I use a oximeter, but not continuously, and when I see the numbers dropping, I work at nose breathing, but quickly forget again.

I would implore you to use a mask in that case.

[peevee]

19 hours ago, chrisk said:

 

All that said, I flew above 10,000 once with a cold ( caught it on the trip).  Never again! 

I went on vacation this year and as per my normal, got sick the day before. The commercial flight down was the most intense sinus pain I've ever encountered on descent. Once I got to my destination it felt like I had water in my ears I couldn't drain, so I saw the nurse. Not water, blood in my inner ear. Took a long time to heal. Please be careful.

[DonMuncy]

1 hour ago, peevee said:

I would implore you to use a mask in that case.

I really ought to.

[gsxrpilot]

While O2 deprivation is real and should be treated very seriously, there is very likely a genetic component to low O2 tolerance. As a former high alpine climber, I'm aware of many who while at the very peak of personal fitness, run into major and sometimes deadly physical issues above 20K ft. Others don't seem to be affected by the high altitude at all. When I was climbing, I was happy to be in the group that was seemingly completely unaffected by the altitude. I've noticed that its the same now in the 50 or so hours I've spent in my 252. 

But of course, there's no substitute for enough O2.

[kortopates]

3 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

While O2 deprivation is real and should be treated very seriously, there is very likely a genetic component to low O2 tolerance. As a former high alpine climber, I'm aware of many who while at the very peak of personal fitness, run into major and sometimes deadly physical issues above 20K ft. Others don't seem to be affected by the high altitude at all. When I was climbing, I was happy to be in the group that was seemingly completely unaffected by the altitude. I've noticed that its the same now in the 50 or so hours I've spent in my 252. 

But of course, there's no substitute for enough O2.

As another semi-retired climber I tend to agree with you. But I think its a combination of both genetics and many years of building up your VO2 max. I was never a real high altitude ice climber like my wife though that is well adapted to altitude after many years of climbing high mountains in South and North America but as an example she never needed her mask since she has never had any problem maintaining 92-92% saturation with just a cannula at to as high as FL230 & FL240. I was never that well adapted, as I was only a rock-aneer avoiding ice like the plague; mostly playing on rocky peaks of the Sierra's. But I was pretty good at altitude till I had a DVT leading to a PE event years ago and now need the mask starting at 17K in order to keep adequately saturated. But what i am trying to stress here is the point that there is so much variation is individuals personal O2 tolerance or requirements that flying at altitude without a readily available pulse oximeter is on the verge of being reckless these days. Many of the comments above about fatigue at altitude can be traced to not getting enough O2. (of course if your fatigued with plenty of O2 saturation, I don't think we can blame it on the lack of O2 at altitude) The oximeter doesn't solve the problem directly, but it tells you when you either need to adjust flow accordingly or go to a mask to get the necessary saturation.

But the other thing stemming from many years of strenuous climbing at altitude is that you learn to recognize hypoxia symptoms right away. I've had a few minor O2 issues in the plane over the course of a many years from worn hoses popping off the connector or the connector not actually being seated properly in the fitting and never was it not obvious I had a problem which was immediately confirmed with the pulse oximeter and then corrected. (if not immediately correctable, I carry small disposable backup emergency cylinders of O2 I can be using in seconds - which I have never yet needed).

But thank goodness for the chamber ride for those that don't know how they'll respond to hypoxia. But even after a chamber ride we've read people report they still doubt they'd recognize they've become hypoxic when it happens. (I think I even saw such a person in chamber ride once). Perhaps if someone still feels they would have no idea after the chamber ride they ought to avoid unpressurized aircraft or be sure to fly at altitude with another pilot till that changes, if ever.

So as Paul says above, there is no substitute for O2, but also no excuse for not having a pulse oximeter on board to verify and adjust your O2 saturation.  

Just my two cents, YMMV.

Edited October 15, 2016 by kortopates

[chrisk]

11 hours ago, peevee said:

I went on vacation this year and as per my normal, got sick the day before. The commercial flight down was the most intense sinus pain I've ever encountered on descent. Once I got to my destination it felt like I had water in my ears I couldn't drain, so I saw the nurse. Not water, blood in my inner ear. Took a long time to heal. Please be careful.

Yes, I had a similar experience.  Not the pain on descent, being a diver I clear my ears regularly (and take Sudafed) and have a good idea of what to much pressure would feel like.    I did  get the water in the ears feeling for about a week and I have no desire to repeat that again.

[peevee]

1 hour ago, chrisk said:

Yes, I had a similar experience.  Not the pain on descent, being a diver I clear my ears regularly (and take Sudafed) and have a good idea of what to much pressure would feel like.    I did  get the water in the ears feeling for about a week and I have no desire to repeat that again.

She thought trying to clear my ears is what caused the problem, the pain was so bad I pushed way too hard. We all know better than to fly with congestion.

[Tony Armour]

On October 2, 2016 at 10:08 AM, aviatoreb said:

 

I do use mine together with an O2D2 pulse delivery O2 system, and it is pretty thrifty with the O2 tank.

I tell folks all the time this is the BEST investment you can make if on oxygen regular. It makes a tank of o2 last forever. Also, I have never worn anything except a regular cannula (not an oxysaver) even up in the 20's and the o2 saturation was fine. Mountain High also has refurb units, newer and older style for lower prices. My old style have been trouble free for eleven years now.

Another note, during a flight I'll occasionally drop the cannula to my mouth to give the nose a break. Can't do that very well with an oxysaver.