Excessive Repair Times

[georgeb]

I'm needing a bit of advice from you legal experts out there. I've had my '70 'E' in an un-named well known shop now since October of 2010 (wait, it gets worse). Since then, we've waited for approvals from manufacturers and payments to be transacted etc..etc... After several months of "we're looking for the parts because the factory shut down" to "we've got everything and you should be ready by ??/??/??" I'm still waiting for my bird to be finished. Depending on who I speak to, (the owner, or the owner's son), the story changes every time I call. The plane has not changed appearance since December (when I got some pictures of the progress, or lack thereof). I've gone from Mid November completion times to the last one was first week in Feb '11. They're getting harder to find in the office and when I do manage to speak to either one of the two that is allowed to say anything all I can get is "we're still waiting on ????) or we finally got the misterious part and it should be ready by next week .... again!. 

So, long story short, do I have any legal recourse to do anything at this point, or am I basically SOL and have to wait for them to complete the task they agreed to accomplish?

Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated..either here or via pm or email.

I need some help please.

Thanks

George

 

[philipneeper]

i feel as an owner you have the right to tell them to button up your bird and take it... you own it not them

[Cruiser]

if the part in question is an airworthiness issue then you are kinda stuck.

If it does not effect the airworthiness, call and tell them to have the plane ready for flight with or without the repairs in question when you want to pick it up.

Agree on the amount owed to them for the work that has been done before you get there. You can always negotiate things you see when you get there to pick up the plane.

Call before you leave to get the plane to be sure it will be ready when you arrive.

3½ months in the shop is unreasonable no matter what the issue.

[georgeb]

I've tried that, unfortunately, by the time I told them that a couple of months ago, they'd already gotten it to a point where I cannot fly it. They started on the repairs before getting approval from me or the ones that were going to be footing most of the bill. To give you guys a little insight, I had a spinner blow up in flight that tore up my cowl and a piece of my wing. By the time all is said and done, I'm ending up with a short 201, part of it at my cost, most at the prop manufacturer's cost. It's my understanding that a piece of ducting for the re-located oil cooler is all they're missing....or not? That's what's most troubling. It depends on which of the two happens to answer the phone and the day that I call as to the status of that missing part. Whatever the case, that's the reason I'm given for not being able to complete the plane, oh and Cruiser, it's 4 and one half months....by the end of February, they would have had the plane for 5 months. That's the reason for finally posting this thread. I'm at a point where I'm desperate and reaching out for any Ideas or suggestions.

Thanks,

George

 

[DaV8or]

How far away are they? I find it's a lot harder to blow somebody off if you are right there face to face with them. If you go there, they will be forced to give you an accurate run down of the status and what parts remain to be sourced. Then I would offer to obtain the parts for them. If they are too busy to shop for parts, then you can help them out. Many mechanics will just call their usual supplier and leave it at that. As an owner, you are free to scour the planet and if the part doesn't exist, then you can have it made. Having all the parts, plus the fact that they know you'll be back on their doorstep should motivate them to get your plane out of their shop.

The story in this thread is why I'm trying to find an avionics shop with in driving distance of me to do my panel rebuild.

[georgeb]

They are clear on the other side of the country (that's a hint for those of you that care to take a guess as to who has it). I've asked for specifically what part they are looking for and have offered to even have one made for them if I can get the technical specs. I have a couple of 201's available to copy here locally and my AP is willing to make the part and send it to them as an "owner supplied" part. It's way over there because these guys have an STC to do this conversion using factory parts....thing is, factory is not shipping these parts any more. The timing on this whole ordeal has been bad to say the least, but at any rate, I've offered the owner supplied parts route (as suggested by my ap) as well as offered to look for the part myself....Every time I do, they say they have a lead on it and should be getting it in the next few days....that's seems to be a pattern with them.

george

 

[georgeb]

OK, so you've figured out the prop, yes it was a top prop issue and their customer support went out of their way to take care of the their side of it. In the interim though, we mutually agreed to have the plane ferried to Florida for repairs and there it sits. So if anyone's in the vicinity of Sarasota that's willing to lend a fellow mooney pilot a hand, by all means make yourself known. I want to at least be assured that it's not just sitting there with nothing being done to it while other planes are getting the the shops resources. From the few pictures I've received, I can see a progress, but not 5 months worth.

George

 

[FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC]

If anyone needs a MSC in FL I would recommend Daytona Aircraft Services in Daytona Beach.  It's really the only place I would let service my Mooney in the entire state.  They have been maintaining my K since before I owned it and I never really had any problems with the plane to speak of.  There basic annuals are cheaper then most non MSC's in the area as well

[MikeinFL]

Quote: georgeb

OK, so you've figured out the prop, yes it was a top prop issue and their customer support went out of their way to take care of the their side of it. In the interim though, we mutually agreed to have the plane ferried to Florida for repairs and there it sits. So if anyone's in the vicinity of Sarasota that's willing to lend a fellow mooney pilot a hand, by all means make yourself known. I want to at least be assured that it's not just sitting there with nothing being done to it while other planes are getting the the shops resources. From the few pictures I've received, I can see a progress, but not 5 months worth.

George

 George,   I am in St. Pete and will be happy to help!  

[georgeb]

Thanks Mike,

I'll send you an email.

George

 

[Amelia]

How does that slimeball stay in business? I dealt with him once- but that was long before Al Gore got the Internet to where it is today. Looks as if  your mechanic's modus operandi hasn't changed a bit, and people aren't, um, coy, about calling him on what they perceive as his essential dishonesty and lousy workmanship. I bet if you know any lawyers, you could maybe hire one- and then get in line.

[georgeb]

Quote: Amelia

How does that slimeball stay in business? I dealt with him once- but that was long before Al Gore got the Internet to where it is today. Looks as if  your mechanic's modus operandi hasn't changed a bit, and people aren't, um, coy, about calling him on what they perceive as his essential dishonesty and lousy workmanship. I bet if you know any lawyers, you could maybe hire one- and then get in line.

[Wistarmo]

The Mooney facility in Sarasota that you are stuck with is notorious.  If you utilize the MooneySpace, MAPA, Mooney-Tech, and AOPA websites and search for Mooney Mart or its owner you will find over thirty highly negative comments without a single positive response.  Having personally dealt with them, I would advise you to do whatever it takes to get your plane out as soon as possible, including legal action.  Believe no promises or verbal committments.  Be prepared to carefully inspect the quality of all work.  Hopefully all of your repair estimates are in writing; this will be crucial in the future. 

[aerobat95]

I am really sorry to hear of your problems.  I have heard nothing but bad things with this shop as well and would avoid it like the plague.  Maybe you should take a few day trip down there and speak to them face to face.  To be honest sounds like this guy needs a good old fashion a$% kicking.....just my .02 

[fantom]

I'm in Ft. Lauderdale, and I hope you have the AOPA legal service, because you need an attorney.

[Sabremech]

Hi Jorge,

Here's an option you can try in lieu of an attorney: Mike Busch has a consultation business that can handle exactly the situation you are in. If nothing else, he may be able to give you some options that haven't been thought about. I'd be careful mentioning the shops name, especially if legal action is necessary (until you have your airplane back).

Savvy Aviator, Inc.
4801 Braeburn Drive
Las Vegas, NV 89130
tel 1-702-655-1359
fax 1-646-607-0144

 

[georgeb]

Quote: fantom

I'm in Ft. Lauderdale, and I hope you have the AOPA legal service, because you need an attorney.

[scottfromiowa]

Sorry to hear of your situation.  Truly unfortunate.  I think we as owners must REALLY make a formal effort to receive detailed estimates of parts and labor as well as estimated completion dates (in writing) BEFORE we allow entities to paint, fabricate, repair/service our aircraft.  If not, SHAME ON US.  There are several articles in former MOA magazines discussing communication between buyer/seller or owner/repair shop...these discuss litigation, ALWAYS THE LAST RESORT, but of course sometimes a necessity.  I would get work to date in writing and compare to written estimates.  If you have none then...Lesson Learned and consider yourself lucky that you have never been burned so felt need to cross t's and dot i's.  A cowl modification and moving of the oil cooler/modifcation of ram air etc. IS a significant conversion, having a clear expectation of Time/labor and parts to date and a written estimate of work/labor and parts remaining as well as expected costs should be mandatory.  Good luck.  I look forward to seeing your beautiful E when completed!  Maybe they are just trying to build your anticipation to a fevor pitch?...mission accomplished, eh?

The MAPA tech site could perhaps give estimates of labor/parts if you ask for such an undertaking....

[philipneeper]

Quote: 201-FLYER

If anyone needs a MSC in FL I would recommend Daytona Aircraft Services in Daytona Beach.  It's really the only place I would let service my Mooney in the entire state.  They have been maintaining my K since before I owned it and I never really had any problems with the plane to speak of.  There basic annuals are cheaper then most non MSC's in the area as well

[richardheitzman]

I would do whatever it took to get that aircraft out of that shop, including and up to putting it on the back of a trailer.

I lived and breathed the Mooney aviation service center network for almost five years, you have your best (my personal opinion, Don Maxwell) and your worst.

I am sorry for your issues. Forewarned is forearmed. Caveat emptor

BTW some people are used to being sued, and it might take even longer to get your aircraft out of the shop.

[RJBrown]

I had a horrible experiance with Mod Works before they were put out of our collective misery. After that bad experiance I had the need and called Mooney mart. The same person that oversaw the disaster at Mod works answered the phone. Needless to say I have had no direct relation with Mooney mart.

Even with everything in writing from me and my insurance carrier Mod Works used body filler to fix wing panels they had contracted to replace. They charged the labor of replacing but only bondoed the wing skins.

I understand the two companies were started by the same people.

[jetmech1972]

When you get your plane back, have another set of eyes go over with a fine tooth comb. If there are any illegal repairs or materials file a complaint with the local FSDO office then seek legal council for the rework.

[fantom]

If it were me, I'd show up at the facility with a local mechanic, a big roll of duct tape, an FAA waiver form, and an attorney. I've been hearing horror stories about him for almost 20 years.....100's of them!

[LT4BIRD]

I work next to the shop that has your aircraft. I can walk over and take a look if you like. Your not the first.

[N33GG]

Although I have no experience with the shop you are involved with, over the years I have had a few similar experiences with my aircraft tied up at other shops for an extended period of time.  It can be V-E-R-Y F-R-U-S-T-R-A-T-I-N-G!

You have all of my sympathy, and I wish you good luck getting it resolved.