Landing/Ramp Fees

[jpusser]

How do FBO's get away with charging ramp fees or landing fees.  The airports are public airports and the fees are not going to the airport.  I understand they have to make money but they it was their choice to open a business.  How long would a store last if they charged you for coming in if you don't buy anything.  If its a public airport should there not be public parking.  Can we tell the controller we want to taxi to public or free parking.  What can they do if you refuse to pay $25 to drop off passengers. 

[rbridges]

I don't think most airports charge to drop off or pick up passengers--at least not the ones around me.  Usually it's if you leave the plane for a period of time unattended, and most of the ones I go to will waive the fee if you get fuel.

[DaV8or]

Don't know about landing fees, but ramp fees are reasonable. FBOs lease the building and ramp with tie downs from the airport authority and as such they can charge or not charge as much as they want. Transient parking that belongs to the airport charges over nights as a way of raising money for the airport. It costs a lot of money to keep an airport running and the various governments only pay a fraction of what is needed to keep the place open. As to the legality of it, well, you've seen a parking meter before, right? Just because it's public doesn't me we don't have to pay to use it. Most airports I've been to are very fair about it. They usually only charge if you stay over night and then it seems to be about $3-10 a night. Stopping in for luch costs nothing.  If you buy gas, many FBOs will wave this fee.

I agree though, that fees like these are going no where but up and we need to keep an eye on it.

[danb35]

Quote: jpusser

How do FBO's get away with charging ramp fees or landing fees.

[DaV8or]

Quote: jpusser

Can we tell the controller we want to taxi to public or free parking.  What can they do if you refuse to pay $25 to drop off passengers. 

[jpusser]

KBHM (Birmingham, AL), KMEM (Memphis, TN), KJAN (Jackson, MS) are three airports around me that will charge you if you stop just to drop off passangers.  I know most will waive the fee if you buy fuel but it is usually way overpriced fuel and my airplane will usually not hold the min purchase to waive the fee if I fly there direct and I am full when I leave.  None of these airports have free parking in any of the airport directories.  I get the parking meter comparison but Usually if you are willing to park a little further away you can find free parking.  Also the meters are put there by the city and the money goes to them.  The money doesn't go to the airport when you pay an fbo a ramp fee.  All I am trying to say is that I think we are getting taken advantage of at the bigger airports.  I am just wandering if others have found ways to land for free.

[DaV8or]

Quote: jpusser

KBHM (Birmingham, AL), KMEM (Memphis, TN), KJAN (Jackson, MS) are three airports around me that will charge you if you stop just to drop off passangers.  I know most will waive the fee if you buy fuel but it is usually way overpriced fuel and my airplane will usually not hold the min purchase to waive the fee if I fly there direct and I am full when I leave.

[flight2000]

I've never had a problem with just drops, but I always call ahead and I have a few FBO's that are a no-go because of their fee structures.  If a big airport (i.e. MEM) charges to much, I go to another airport unless it is absolutely necessary (rarely the case).  We are free to vote with our wallets, just as the FBO's are free to charge whatever they want.  Now if the FBO tries to sneak in a fee after I've called and gotten the quote from an employee, then I have a little discussion with the manager.  That normally smoothes things out. 

Some just have a general dislike for servicing smaller piston aircraft and it shows.  Sounds like your airports have that and prefer the larger payouts offered by the jets while making it painful for the smaller guys to get in and out.

Just my take on it.

Brian

Also, keep in mind we have no idea what the city is charging them for space on the airfield.  Same for the taxes on fuel.  Most major airports are usually $1-2 dollars higher than a satellite airport.  Coincidence or funding source for the municipality??

[rbridges]

Quote: flight2000

Some just have a general dislike for servicing smaller piston aircraft and it shows.  Sounds like your airports have that and prefer the larger payouts offered by the jets while making it painful for the smaller guys to get in and out.

 

that's probably it.  I don't fly to a lot of the larger airports.  From their perspective, the smaller piston planes are probably more trouble than they're worth. 

 

[Cruiser]

I can image how really pi**ed off you must be every time you pay the toll on an Interstate highway.......

As for KBKL, you can park in front of the old terminal building under the control tower and avoid the FBO and any of their fees but you will still pay the landing fee to the airport.

At most airports, if you avoid the FBO like going to GA parking area instead you can avoid those fees but what are you going to do with your passengers?

[danb35]

Quote: Cruiser

As for KBKL, you can park in front of the old terminal building under the control tower and avoid the FBO and any of their fees but you will still pay the landing fee to the airport.

[randypugh]

Something you need to know. It costs a lot of money to maintain an airport and run an FBO. I know because I built my own 20 yrs ago and still have it today. Building costs, insurance, utility bills, property taxes ($30,000.00yr) cost of fuel system, snow removal, grounds upkeep, ect...We don't charge ramp fees but do parking fees. Why does it seam that once a pilot buys an airplane they think everything else is owed to them. Example: a 10 x 20  (200sq ft) storage building at the local facility is $150.00 month and they are full, but I get called names for charging $235.00 for a 42 x 32 (1344 sq ft) insulated box hangar, or how about the local garage that gets $95.00 hr for working on your car but $65.00hr for an educated IA is too much. The next time you walk into the FBO to use the restroom, ask yourself who makes this available to you. It all costs money and without the FBO we wouldn't have any services. This is the biggest reason we are losing so many airports every year. It's time we as pilots support our local FBO's. It is getting more and more difficult each year to survive and I truly beleive that Most FBO's are doing their best to be fair and keep your business.  

[flight2000]

Quote: randypugh

Why does it seam that once a pilot buys an airplane they think everything else is owed to them.

[Amelia]

I understand that the big operators are looking for bizjets, and the fancy ramp fees go to support the chi-chi mauve and lavender decor inside, the soaring glassy spaces, the lovely potted trees, the mints in the jar, the folded towels and hand lotion in the ladies' room. I understand the bizjet pilots don't care, because they're not picking up the tab. But I am and I have a limited amount of money to spend on flying.  I do expect to buy fuel- at $6.50+/gal, if necessary, and if I borrow the crew car, I expect to top it off. I don't expect to pay $40 to drop a passenger off and keep going and I'm glad to know that's what BKL's FBO is charging these days.... so I don't have to go there again. Their choice, -- and my choice.

[skyking]

I thought it was pretty much common practice these days. Almost every airport i go to in Northern Alberta charges to drop off or pick up passengers. Even at the airport's where there is no landing fees i have been charged the passenger fees. And this is the airport charging the fee, not the FBO. Some of them charge for parking, and some dont. If you buy gas then pretty much everybody does not charge for parking around here.

[Cruiser]

There is a big difference between privately owned public use and government owned public use.

Most importantly, the private airport is funded with personal dollars, the county or city airport is funded with taxpayer dollars.

[BlueSkyTraveler]

My criteria that has worked for me for 27 years is whether or not there is an airport dog. If there is an airport dog I know I am where I belong, my kind of folks, where I fit in. This has served me well as I only fly for fun--I already have a job, flying is my relaxation.

When I go to a larger airport with all the foo foo trimmings I play by their rules and pay their tolls cause I know I am just visiting their world--soon I will be back in mine. The reason I have a plane is to avoid the hassles of larger airports, if the place is big enough to have a high priced airport then its big enough to have one or more relievers, we all win--the kerosene queens have their place in the world and I have mine, out where a friendly ole dog greets me as I tie my Mooney down.

[DaV8or]

Quote: randypugh

 but I get called names for charging $235.00 for a 42 x 32 (1344 sq ft) insulated box hangar,

[scottfromiowa]

The only place I have been charged...am charged a "fee" that is NOT waived with fuel purchase is unfortunately the primary place I visit (D25 Manitowish Waters, WI).  The tie down fee is $5.00/night or $25/week.  I always purchase a minimum of 20 gallons of fuel, so this DOES bother me, but what you gonna do?  Only game in town and it's a nice facility.

[Jerry 5TJ]

I flew into JFK about 15 years ago, the landing fee was $80 but I used up that much value just in progressive taxi instructions from Ground Control. 

I go into John Wayne (SNA) a dozen times per year and the overnight fee is amazingly cheap -- $5 per night.  It costs a lot more to park your car there at the airport than your Mooney, go figure THAT out.  In recent years TSA has added a fee for security, too, of $10 per operation.  

The two main FBOs at SNA must make their money from the biz jet clients but they have always been amazingly nice to me when I fill up on 22 gallons and use up a parking spot for days.   Maybe they think my Mooney will grow up and become a G-V someday.

[Jerry 5TJ]

Quote: BlueSkyTraveler

My criteria that has worked for me for 27 years is whether or not there is an airport dog. If there is an airport dog I know I am where I belong, my kind of folks, where I fit in. This has served me well as I only fly for fun--I already have a job, flying is my relaxation.

[1964-M20E]

I generally look for the smaller airports to avoid fees where possible and the fuel is usually cheaper.  However, I was flying with a friend and we landed at MSY with his Arrow to drop off his son-in-law.  $40 ramp fee was cheaper than then minimum fuel requirement of 20 gallons at $6.50.

No I did not spend a lot on my plane but I do not like having to pay for someone to do something that I am more than capable of doing myself.  Now there are some things I will gladly pay someone who has more experience and knowledge than me.

[rorythedog]

Quote: jerry-N5911Q

Re the Airport Dog Test:

We made a fuel stop at Wink (INK) Texas on a cross-country two years ago.  We arrived in mid-afternoon on a weekday, and the ONLY living creature at the airport was the ramp dog.  Later we learned his name was "Piper," but he was very glad to see us, even if in a Mooney.  The pumps were open.  I don't mean there was a credit card pump, no, the pumps were unlocked and "on" and a sign directed us to leave a note saying how much we'd pumped.

Piper was a true airport dog.  When we called out "clear" he headed directly for the terminal at full dog-trot.  I hope he is still there greeting transient aircraft.

 15 or so years ago i had the occasion to stop at cross city,florida....they had an airport pig! 

 

[Amelia]

You looking for an airport dog? Land at Eufaula, Alabama sometime. KEUF has an airport DOG! She's a Newfie, well over a hundred pounds of Newfie. Mootsie may favor you with a gentle canine smile and an exhausted flop of her shaggy tail, but mostly she seems to spend the day trying to convince transients that she's actually a black-bear rug. (KEUF has no landing fee, no handling fee, no ramp fee, reasonably priced fuel, and if you get there at lunch time on a scorching hot southern Alabama day, and decide that all the homemade cookies, the fresh fruit, the icecream bars, the soda pop, the coffee, and if you hit it exactly right, maybe even airport bums operating a barbecue grill, should be augmented by lunch at the nearby airport restaurant, they might even pull your airplane into a shady hangar for the hour.) Hospitality writ exceeding large there. Exec-you Jet, Billionaire, and the rest of the fancy operators could learn a thing or two from this small airport.

[lahso]

Quote: Amelia

You looking for an airport dog? Land at Eufaula, Alabama sometime. KEUF has an airport DOG! She's a Newfie, well over a hundred pounds of Newfie. Mootsie may favor you with a gentle canine smile and an exhausted flop of her shaggy tail...