Thinking about buying a Mooney TLS or Acclaim

[Marco]

Hello esteemed Mooney Pilots,

currently I'm an owner of a 2002 Socata TB21 (GT Version) and so far I'm very pleased with that aircraft. Currently I'm trying to complete my Intrument rating. Even though I'm using my aircraft for some business flights, it's primarily used for weekend and holiday trips. I'm flying 70-100 hrs per year. 

For some reason I'm thinking about buying another aircraft. First thing is (maybe) a glass cockpit. Regarding the Upgrade cost of a Garmin 500 with new GPS and some other nice to haves, I would be nearly at the price of an already glass-equipped aircraft.

Second thing would be the unrivaled speed of a Mooney !

By now I would need some first hand information about the operating cost of a Mooney M20M TLS or a Mooney Acclaim . 

Here is a list of my actual annual cost:

Fuel burn (FL 100 - 140 @ 75%) is around 15-16 gal/h. You'll see around 160-170 kts

Average annual maintenance cost are around 4.000,00 EUR 

Replacement engine (Lycoming TIO-540 @ 250 PS) should cost around 50.000,00 EUR (nor sure if the turbo is included) - what are the estimated replacement cost for the conti engines ?

So my annual operation cost (without amortization and capital cost) are around 20.000,00 - 25.000,00 EUR (including Hangar and Insurance). If I would make myself the effort I would have to add another 2500 EUR per year as reserve fund for engine replacement. 

As I live and fly in Germany I would be glad to hear some figures of german or european Mooney drivers, but I would appreciate all answers. 

Thanks a lot to all of you helping me making a decision 

Happy rest easter !!!!

[Jeff_S]

Ordinarily for your mission, I would say that an Ovation would fit your flight profile and be very nice to your budget. Ovations generally cruise at about 13.5 GPH when LOP and still beat the speeds you're seeing for your Socata. You may need to fly in and over the Alps, which would suggest the turbo is useful, but on nice weather days even the Ovation will easily get to 18,000' which may be sufficient.

But if the turbo is what you really want, others can give you advice on operating costs for Mooney versions. They will probably be less than your Socata for sure, because even a turbo Mooney can be flown very efficiently.

As to the glass cockpit, you will hear some differing opinions. I have the G1000 and I love the tight integration of the system. Now that even some of the early G1000 models have an economical path to WAAS and ADS-B (not sure if that matters in Europe) there shouldn't be any complaints along those lines. However, some will tell you they prefer taking an older steam-gauge plane and adding glass to it, as they are more free to make modifications and add/replace things as they feel like it. It is true that with the G1000, most major changes to the panel have to come through a joint Garmin-Mooney effort.

Hope that helps. Searching for your new plane is often one of the most fun parts of owning it!

[M20F]

I would second an Ovation if you are set on Mooney's.  Depending on how many passengers you may want to look at Bonanza's as well.  Cirrus is not a bad option either.  

When you start talking $'s fuel burn in your scenario isn't even part of the equation.  For most hops you will do in Europe the Mooney is not going to win speed contests (10-15kts on a 2hr flight is negligible).  Look for something that is going to have the comfort, useful load, and radios you want.  There are a lot of options out there and limiting to on brand will probably not get the best result for your mission.  

[BradB]

Marco,

 

i agree with @M20F and @Jeff_S, if you are flying in the Fl100-140 reange, an ovation make make sense. The turbo shines when flying higher.  It is true that it can be run efficiently, but I typically fly ROP.  FL180 27/2400 202TAS (I have TKS) at 18.5gph. I think LOP the fuel burn drops to the 14s.  

I saw on another thread recently here that an Acclaim engine is in the $75,000 to $85,000 range. 

Good luck!

 

[Joe Zuffoletto]

I flew a TB-20 for years and although I liked it, I would never go back to one after owning two Mooneys.

My annuals run between about $4,200 and $6,000 US, depending on squawks and the need for periodic items like transponder tests, IFR certs, etc.

I fly between FL180 and FL210. Whether ROP or LOP I use 28" and 2,400rpm. ROP I see 210KTAS at 18.5gph. LOP I see 200KTAS at 14.5gph.

My Acclaim is by far the most awesome traveling machine I have ever owned!

[thinwing]

Over the years I've simply had better luck with lycoming cylinders going to tbo vs continental.Continentals in Barons,bonanzas etc always seemed to need midtime top overhauls and developed low compression.They were more immune to cam lobe corrosion and rusting than lycomings but I never let them sit that long.l am hearing about pretty frequent top over hauls in 300 hp continentals in Mooney,Cirrus and Bonanza installs ,others can weigh in here but since I needed the Turbo..my Mooney choice was the Bravo...not the most fuel efficient if you have to fly LOP...but the big lycoming has presented no starter adaptor failures,good smooth power,and excellent compression and boroscope results.Ive been pretty happy with this engine / airframe combo

[StevenL757]

Marco, agree with all here, and again - as stated - it really depends on your mission.  When you say you are looking for another aircraft, can I safely assume you will be selling the Trinidad and purchasing another airplane, or owning 2 airplanes?

Second (or "third") the opinion on the Ovation.  Good numbers offered here, and you can expect at least 10-15 knots faster with a normally-aspirated Continental than a TIO-540 powered Lycoming in your Trinidad GT.  Your engine reman/new choices for the Ovation and Acclaim are dramatically different as Brad pointed out...

* CMI Factory Rebuilt IO550G/IO550N - $43.5k (New - $49.3k)

* CMI Factory Rebuilt TSIO550G - $80k (New - $91.8k)

Regards, Steve

[peevee]

How much is avgas over there?

I guess in the grand cost of ownership it might not be a huge expense, but I would think fuel efficiency would rate high on the list of wants.

[LANCECASPER]

I've had Turbo Mooneys (231, Encore, TLS) and I had one Ovation, now I'm back to a TLS. If you've never owned a Turbo you wouldn't miss it, but since you already own a turbocharged airplane I recommend you stay with a Turbo. You will not want to lose the climb performance as you get past 10000 feet.

[Marco]

Thanks to you all for your infos. 

@ Joe: Thanks for the figures :). That was exactly what I have been looking for. B.t.w. very nice aircraft you own !!!!!!

Because of more frequent flights over the alps I won't miss the turbo.

For me there are currently a few options conceivable:

1. I'm thinking about an avionics upgrade on my TB21, which is low time (700hrs) and very well in shape. G500, GTN 750, some other goodies 

2. My wife suggested a SR 22  - hm.  - that cra..... causes maintenance cost up to 15.000,00 $ a year, as I figured out 

3. Buying  a TC Mooney (I also would like a Malibu but ....)

Avgas in germany is 8-8,5 € per gallon (8,5 - 9,0 $/gal). As my TB21 uses 14-15 gal/hr. I think that won't make a large difference. The maintenance cost Joe mentioned meet approximatly with the cost of my TB (more or less). 

Currently I'm collecting Data, so you guys helped me a lot !

Thanks again !