ENGINE/AIRCRAFT LOGS

[Danb]

I just put a sticker in my Aircraft log,  put it back in a bag in a cabinet in my office, realizing how valuable they are I really do not have them in a secure environment. Where do you keep your logs and recommend where they should be kept. Having a safe I'm going to take the logs and put them in there, leaving the receipts etc in my office. Is that good enough should I make a duplicate copy and keep in another location? I have duplicates I take to the MSC for my annual.

[MHemperly]

Good topic, I often wonder if what I do with mine is the right thing. They are certainly something of value. I keep mine in an aluminum locking case I bought at harbor frieght (not fire proof) along with all the other paper work, and put it in the closet at home. 

 

Edited January 6, 2017 by MHemperly

[Vance Harral]

We keep our log books in a plastic case, on a shelf in the (locked) hangar next to the airplane.  The shelf and case protects them against a minor rain leak.  The assumption is  any event which destroys the logs in a locked hangar is likely to destroy the airplane, too.  Seems reasonable enough for a 4-person partnership and a $55K airplane.  I might be more paranoid if I was the sole owner of a late-model Acclaim.

I make digital copies of the logs after every annual, and occasionally between annuals if significant work is done.  These get backed up to a cloud service I can access from anywhere, which is convenient and useful.  It also provides a backup should something happen to the paper log books.

Most aircraft owners I know keep digital copies of their logbooks as a backup, which is certainly good from a practical standpoint.  I've always wondered what it means from a value standpoint, though.  Most buyers will deduct substantial value for anything other than "complete" logs, and some won't even consider anything less - even on a 50-year old airplane (a little silly IMO, but to each their own).  As such, I've always wondered about the value of digital logs.  Not sure how the typical buyer would respond to an ad reading something like "complete logs available in digital form, paper logs available for last 2 years".

[Danb]

Good points Vance, I purchased my plane new or six months old in 2006, so the value if gone may be substantiall 

[DonMuncy]

I'm a dinosaur. I keep the originals at home and a hard copy in the hangar. I don't worry about locks, as they are no value to anyone but me.

[1964-M20E]

I have the originals in a file cabinet at home.  I guess I should make a copy but it seems I'm lazy from that stand point.  Each will do what feels best for them and the value of their machine.

I figure that if something happens to the plane the log books are somewhat valueless except to the insurance co. but then you give them what you have complete or not.  If something happens to the log books then I have a lesser valued plane (15%+/- of the normal value I don't know you tell me??) that at this time I still plan on flying.  For an airplane that is significantly under $100k the hit on value is much less than a $500k plane.

IMHO while good info once an item has been replaced on the plane the records of the previous item that was there and replaced such as  a tire, starter, magneto, battery, even engine if totally replaced etc. don't mean anything to me even though if that information is in my log books it stays simply because it is there and I'm too lazy to figure the cost of removing it or to actually remove it.

[RLCarter]

Originals are kept at home and given to the A&P/IA when needed, I take a digital photo of the new entry which goes on my computer.  

[carusoam]

How to best protect the logs probably takes a look at what makes them go away in the first place...

 

1) Lost or just not found by the owner's family after the dear pilot has past of natural causes.

2) Lost in the shuffle of an FBO's crummy record keeping or chapter11 or that other chapter.

3) Fire where the records were kept.

4) Taken for some nefarious reason.

 

whatever the reason for the dissapearance, a copy can alleviate the situation...

1) electronic copy seems to be good enough. A hard copy can always be printed later.

2) a paper copy is easy enough to be made.

 

Next on the list...   where will you store the copy?

1) not in the same place as the original. A fire in the home office could take out both versions...

2) Stored on the interwebs, may get lost after years of not having the storage bill kept up...

3) Stored on a disk.  May get lost or challenging to retrieve after decades....

 

Another thing to consider...  If they get lost in a fire,

1) will the insurance company pay to have the logs regenerated?

2) Is it possible to completely regenerate the logs?  What does that take?

 

Just PP ideas that come to mind.  I have seen a lot of records go into storage in various ways.

Best regards,

-a-

[Danb]

Good points Vance, I purchased my plane new or six months old in 2006, so the value if gone may be substantiall

[mooniac15u]

For older logbooks it seems that most of the value should be in the information as opposed to the physical logbook.  When buying an aircraft it is nice to be able to go through all the logs from beginning to end to look at things like age of components, AD compliance, and possible major repairs.  Digital versions seem like they serve that purpose pretty well.  Hopefully we'll get to the point where the GA community views digital copies as "complete."

[Vance Harral]

2 hours ago, mooniac15u said:

Hopefully we'll get to the point where the GA community views digital copies as "complete."

I agree, the value is in the information, not the media on which it's contained.  But it'll be tough to get to full-value acceptance of digital copies, because value is market-driven, not mandated.  After all, the regs already allow you to discard most of the information typically found in an airframe logbook.

I think there are likely to be curmudgeons for some time who think a digital copy is somehow more subject to shenanigans than paper, and/or that a lack of paper demonstrates a lower standard of care.  Even buyers who don't care either way may want to protect themselves against said curmudgeons when they sell in the future.  Hence there's value in paper logs with respect to sales price, or at least to the number of buyers willing to consider the aircraft.

As for me, I'm not sure why curmudgeons think paper forgeries are more difficult than electronic ones.  But I'm not going to discard our paper logbooks just to stand on principle.

[Note: all due respect to curmudgeonry, I'm occasionally a curmudgeon myself. ]

[bradp]

As the newer generations start buying aircraft, I'm pretty confident that digital format logs will be readily accepted if not preferred.


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[DonMuncy]

2 hours ago, bradp said:

As the newer generations start buying aircraft, I'm pretty confident that digital format logs will be readily accepted if not preferred.


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I'm way too old. There is just something about having them in your hand and flipping pages. I'm still the same way about magazines and books I read for pleasure.

[Hector]

Good topic, I often wonder if what I do with mine is the right thing. They are certainly something of value. I keep mine in an aluminum locking case I bought at harbor frieght (not fire proof) along with all the other paper work, and put it in the closet at home. 
 

I've been looking for a good case to put my logbooks in and all the other documentation. Went to Harbor Freight and picked up one of these boxes. It is perfect. Thank you for posting!


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[MHemperly]

8 minutes ago, Hector said:

 

I've been looking for a good case to put my logbooks in and all the other documentation. Went to Harbor Freight and picked up one of these boxes. It is perfect. Thank you for posting!


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You're welcome! It works perfect. I set my code on it to my serial number on the plane!