ADSB and iPads...

[M016576]

On 11/7/2016 at 0:29 PM, KLRDMD said:

I have had a few airplanes over the years but I have only done avionics upgrades on some. The guy I used to use and loved his work retired and just closed up shop. The shop on my field I never have been impressed with. There is another guy that's excellent at a close airport but he's generally booked out six months or so.

I've heard about some of the mooney spacers getting free updates to their GNS firmware, and also some getting deeply discounted prices on Garmin GTN installs (like 12K for a 750, installed). I looked all over and was unable to find either of these options.  I would love to hear where these shops are, and whom to talk to to get these deals.  Most of the time, what I've seen is 100-200 bucks to update firmware (and yes, I'm painfully aware of how simple it is), and maybe a slight discount to a Garmin over retail.... 

anyone have the name of a fair and reasonable shop (Don, maybe?  You said you got a pretty screaming deal on a gtn install). 

[DMJones]

Everything is installed and working (as far as I can tell....).  Biggest problem now, is that the new suite does so much stuff, it's difficult to figure out how to do all of it.  I'm going to need to take a 5 hour cross-country, just to push all the buttons.

Apologies in advance: I know I saw it somewhere recently, but can't find it anymore.  I have updated the Jepp stuff in my 430s, but I think it's also time to update at least one of the Garmin terrain databases.  

Suggestions and info about where/how best to do that, and whether I really need more than one updated, and if so which one (WAAS or non-WAAS)?

 

thanks, dj

[rbridges]

On 11/6/2016 at 7:58 AM, Marauder said:

 

Forgot to mention that if you installed a FlightStream 210 at the same time, you will be able to upload and download flightplans from either ForeFlight or Garmin Pilot to the 430W you have. Why this is nice is that you don't have Victor airways in your 430W database. This will allow you to load them on the app and upload the routing to the 430W. Cool feature.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Didn't realize it would take victor airways to the 430w. Cool indeed. 

[rbridges]

26 minutes ago, daver328 said:

That's exactly why we installed it. Send flight plans, route changes, load arrivals, approaches, directs ... and send them either way! Very helpful reducing work load in flight! Also has a back up AHRS, now we have three ... FS-210, Stratus2, and the G5 ...

I know you had a lot done at once, but do you know what the install cost would be?

[wrench]

Anybody know if Garmin/Foreflight/Apple came up with the solution to the GTX345 losing the Bluetooth link to Foreflight yet?

Bill

[cnoe]

Everything is installed and working (as far as I can tell....).  Biggest problem now, is that the new suite does so much stuff, it's difficult to figure out how to do all of it.  I'm going to need to take a 5 hour cross-country, just to push all the buttons.
Apologies in advance: I know I saw it somewhere recently, but can't find it anymore.  I have updated the Jepp stuff in my 430s, but I think it's also time to update at least one of the Garmin terrain databases.  
Suggestions and info about where/how best to do that, and whether I really need more than one updated, and if so which one (WAAS or non-WAAS)?
 
thanks, dj

Few people ever update their "terrain" databases as the earth's surface just doesn't change that much unless you live near volcanic activity, but you CAN get the update from Garmin for $149. OTOH an occasional "obstacle" database upgrade is advisable and only costs $50, also available from Garmin. Either require a proprietary card writer (from Garmin) though a good avionics shop will do the actual programming for free if you pay for the database. It's the same database for the GNS 430/530 WAAS or non-WAAS.


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[Marauder]

Anybody know if Garmin/Foreflight/Apple came up with the solution to the GTX345 losing the Bluetooth link to Foreflight yet?
Bill

There was a message from Garmin on the topic indicating they were working with Apple on it. It also impacted my GDL-39. There was an update downloaded to the Garmin Pilot app and the problem went away. Not sure if the recent Apple iOS update involved the required fix for the 345.


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[ArtVandelay]

If Sarasota avionics installs your GNS, etc, they will update the firmware for free.

[MyNameIsNobody]

On 11/5/2016 at 7:40 PM, milotron said:

Do you have the ipad mini mounted sideways ( landscape ) or upright ( portrait)?  I agree the ipad air  I have is a too big for the yoke and am going to purchase a mini just for this.

 

What mount are you using?

Just bought a RAM iPad mini package mount for $68 bucks at Aircraft Spruce. Works great in portrait or landscape. Better than an older RAM mount I had on co pilot yoke. Does not block instruments. Simple elegant and reasonable price. 

[milotron]

 

2 hours ago, MyNameIsNobody said:

Just bought a RAM iPad mini package mount for $68 bucks at Aircraft Spruce. Works great in portrait or landscape. Better than an older RAM mount I had on co pilot yoke. Does not block instruments. Simple elegant and reasonable price. 

Sounds like a good solution. Good price too.

 

This one?

 

https://www.aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/pspages/ramipadminiyokekit.php?clickkey=248761

 

( sorry, Canadian website ....)

 

 

[DXB]

8 hours ago, daver328 said:

That's exactly why we installed it. Send flight plans, route changes, load arrivals, approaches, directs ... and send them either way! Very helpful reducing work load in flight! Also has a back up AHRS, now we have three ... FS-210, Stratus2, and the G5 ...

Exactly why I had FS210 installed. It truly kicks ass.  Only downside - it's kept me from learning how to program the GTN650 I had installed at the same time.  Its just too easy to do everything on Foreflight and then send it over.   

Now I'm forcing myself to fly with the ipad turned off and do everything on the GTN650 - I doubt there will be any tolerance for my using my ipad exclusively to navigate for my IR training and checkride

[ArtVandelay]

50 minutes ago, DXB said:

Exactly why I had FS210 installed. It truly kicks ass.  Only downside - it's kept me from learning how to program the GTN650 I had installed at the same time.  Its just too easy to do everything on Foreflight and then send it over.   

Now I'm forcing myself to fly with the ipad turned off and do everything on the GTN650 - I doubt there will be any tolerance for my using my ipad exclusively to navigate for my IR training and checkride

I still do that for flightplan changes, I take my time, can check it's correct, the bigger screen on iPad makes it much easier, then transfer it. I no longer fear the dreaded "we have changes to your routing" request from ATC.

[MyNameIsNobody]

11 hours ago, milotron said:

 

Sounds like a good solution. Good price too.

 

This one?

 

https://www.aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/pspages/ramipadminiyokekit.php?clickkey=248761

 

( sorry, Canadian website ....)

 

 

Same stuff, but I paid under $70

 

Edited December 4, 2016 by MyNameIsNobody

[Hector]

Does anyone have recent cost data for a GTN 650 (purchase + install)? How about installation cost only for a 430w. I'm asking because I have an option to purchase a 430w at a decent price from a friend and then pay to install it, but perhaps the difference may not be that much if I purchase a GTN 650 from an avionics shop and have them install it. Any thoughts or info would be appreciated

[gsxrpilot]

How much is the 430W?  I would guess the difference would be in excess of $10,000. 

[ArtVandelay]

24 minutes ago, Hector said:

Does anyone have recent cost data for a GTN 650 (purchase + install)? How about installation cost only for a 430w. I'm asking because I have an option to purchase a 430w at a decent price from a friend and then pay to install it, but perhaps the difference may not be that much if I purchase a GTN 650 from an avionics shop and have them install it. Any thoughts or info would be appreciated

Install I would expect to be similar, a GTN 650 is $9800, and is actively being upgraded, the 430 is not.  I wanted something that was still going to be supported years from now, the used market for 430W is something like $6800, for $3000, I think it's worth it.

[Hector]

Install I would expect to be similar, a GTN 650 is $9800, and is actively being upgraded, the 430 is not.  I wanted something that was still going to be supported years from now, the used market for 430W is something like $6800, for $3000, I think it's worth it.

A 430w has been offered to me for $6k. I would then have to pay the full install price. I was thinking that an avionics shop would get dealer price on the GTN 650 and so the overall difference may not be that big? Not sure

[ArtVandelay]

5 minutes ago, Hector said:

 

A 430w has been offered to me for $6k. I would then have to pay the full install price. I was thinking that an avionics shop would get dealer price on the GTN 650 and so the overall difference may not be that big? Not sure

 

That may mean the install cost will be more for the 430W, since the dealer is losing some on the markup. The GTN is just way nicer, bigger screen, better interface, more functional, simpler install of navigation database. 

If you are keeping the plane for a long time, the GTN makes sense, IMO.

[KLRDMD]

2 hours ago, Hector said:

Does anyone have recent cost data for a GTN 650 (purchase + install)? How about installation cost only for a 430w. I'm asking because I have an option to purchase a 430w at a decent price from a friend and then pay to install it, but perhaps the difference may not be that much if I purchase a GTN 650 from an avionics shop and have them install it. Any thoughts or info would be appreciated

No way I would install a 430 today. The basic box is almost 20 years old now; it has had some updating of course but is still old technology today. The install cost is going to be significant with any box so the differential probably isn't a large percentage. That said, seriously take a look at installing an Avidyne 440 or better yet 540 today with buying the upgrade coupon to a 550.

I'm amazed with mine every time I fly behind it.

[Hector]

No way I would install a 430 today. The basic box is almost 20 years old now; it has had some updating of course but is still old technology today. The install cost is going to be significant with any box so the differential probably isn't a large percentage. That said, seriously take a look at installing an Avidyne 440 or better yet 540 today with buying the upgrade coupon to a 550.
I'm amazed with mine every time I fly behind it.

i

I'll have to look at the Avidyne 440 in terms of cost vs a GTN 650. They are both nice and I would be happy with either.

[JohnB]

4 hours ago, Hector said:

Does anyone have recent cost data for a GTN 650 (purchase + install)? How about installation cost only for a 430w. I'm asking because I have an option to purchase a 430w at a decent price from a friend and then pay to install it, but perhaps the difference may not be that much if I purchase a GTN 650 from an avionics shop and have them install it. Any thoughts or info would be appreciated

I had a 430W as part of my original equipment, and when I bought a GTN 750, i kept my 430W, even though I could have gotten a great resale for it. (theres still quite a market for used 430Ws)  It is a great unit, allowing you to do every approach my 750 will allow me to do with the same precision. Of course the 750 has more bells and whistles, but im keeping my 430W as my backup, as if my GTN totally craps out, I know i can easily get wherever i need even in hard IMC with my trusty 430W. I looked at the smaller G650 and the avidyne 440 to replace the 430, and didnt see any new features that i would gain other than having a second touch screen by swapping it out.  So it all depends on your budget. But i think the avidyne 440 and the garmin 650's screens are FAR too small for me to be effective touch screen maps, but the GTN 750 or avidyne 540 (or even an ipad!) are. So if i wanted to go the least expensive, i would get a used 430W, a Flightstream 210, and an iPad. If I had a bit more, i would add a large multifunction display.

[JohnB]

Oh cost data.. sorry missed that part of your question. My GTN 750 was about $19,500 installed minus a rebate of around $1,500 or so if i recall. I could have sold my G430W easily back to the dealer for $5,000, or on ebay for higher (around $6,000). I was impressed the 430W keeps its value after 20+ years, as my other avionics i traded in ie MX20, got around $1500 (which originally cost a lot more than a 430W did)

[carusoam]

The 430W does everything the GTN does. Just not as efficiently...

So it comes down to the end user.  You are going to save an AMU as you spend 10AMU to get WAAS approach capabilities.

The market has efficiently put a high price on the 430W.  Big G leads with the price on the GTN650.  And Avidyne has done a great job of delivering the 440 for a price that is in the middle.

If the short term saving of one AMU is that important. Go used 430W.  The installation is so expensive, similar to the new radios...

If getting a quality device with all the bells and whistles. Go Avidyne.

If You want everything and the big name, go big G.

Simplified PP logic.

Best regards,

-a-

[ArtVandelay]

5 hours ago, carusoam said:

The 430W does everything the GTN does. Just not as efficiently...-a-

I'm don't believe that's true.

My GTN does holds, no fiddling with OBS, no timing, no wind correction ...

Pair with GDL88 it has traffic, weather pages with radar, metars, tafs....

Safe taxi display 

airway navigation 

and a lot less buttons...

If you have a 430W, it may not be enough to entice you to uograde, but if installing new, go with GTN, you'll get a warranty as well.

[Hector]

I'm don't believe that's true.
My GTN does holds, no fiddling with OBS, no timing, no wind correction ...
Pair with GDL88 it has traffic, weather pages with radar, metars, tafs....
Safe taxi display 
airway navigation 
and a lot less buttons...
If you have a 430W, it may not be enough to entice you to uograde, but if installing new, go with GTN, you'll get a warranty as well.

Well, I don't have a 430w. I'll have access to a 430w for $6k and then pay an avionics shop to install it, or buy a GTN 650 or Avidyne 440 new through a dealer and pay them for installation. More or less I was trying to figure the cost differential between these two options. I think I would be quite happy with either but it would be foolish to pass up on the new equipment if the savings is not substantial. For example, if the difference is less than 2.5 AMU then I would just go new. Between 2.5 and 3.5 I would have to think about it. Over 3.5 I would have to consider the 430w specially since this is a C that I may not keep forever because I may want a nice F or J in another 5 years.


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