G-OBAL refit

[thinwing]

I really like that scheme..I can see why you are in design!

[Hyett6420]

15 hours ago, Hank said:

 

1 hour ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Andrew,

After you get her all spiffied up will hangarage be an option that is available to you or that you have considered?  I can't wait to see your final results!

Jim

Jim

funny you should say that we were discussing this earlier.  Our hangarage at EGTR leaves a lot to be desired.   The planes are all taken out each day so that the ones at the back can be got out.  They are then not put back in again.  But yes in principle a hangar is an option that we are looking at closely.  

[Emmet]

We visited Aeroskill today in Holland. Now there is a separate thread going on somewhere about  why we have Money's but.... I woke at 04:30 to get taxi to train station for 5:50. Caught train to London Stansted (as close as Heathrow etc to London) and caught 08:40 flight to closest airport to Aeroskill that accepted Commerical traffic, Eindhoven.  Landed at 10:40 local, security problem meant we could not disembark for 1:30. Eventually got to Hertz desk. No car waiting despite gold member. Eventually got to Seppe and Aeroskill at 13:00 in time for lunch. . All in all 7 hours train to destination rather than 1:30 in the Mooney. Grrr 

Anyway Aeroskill are doing a great job and have gone over the aircraft with a tooth comb. Very thorough and well documented.  Baby has been stripped of paint and is ready for paint application.  Buffed and minor nicks etc dealt with.  Aeroskill are an MSC and I can see why. Having known various maintenance organisations they give a level of confidence that I have not felt before elsewhere to the same degree. 

On leaving Seppe the sun was setting check this out  taken on an iPhone with just point and click  

I have also been there yesterday to deliver my Mooney for a full reseal. Took a look at your baby and it really looked nice.

Would have been nice to meet you - Willem mentioned your trouble at the airport. I think we missed you for about half an hour. Would love to see your plane finished :-)

[flyboy0681]

2 minutes ago, Emmet said:

Always meant to ask, why are there hinges on the tail?

[rbridges]

the interior pieces look awesome.  I am so jealous!

[Hyett6420]

17 minutes ago, Emmet said:

 

I have also been there yesterday to deliver my Mooney for a full reseal. Took a look at your baby and it really looked nice.
Would have been nice to meet you - Willem mentioned your trouble at the airport. I think we missed you for about half an hour. Would love to see your plane finished :-)


Gesendet von iPad mit Tapatalk

 

Ah you have a lovely plane. I must admit to having a peek also at yours. . 

You might have seen us We were the guys walking away from the office as you taxied up.  We were wearing light brown coats.  Willem saw you and left us with Matthijs for lunch.  The cafe I can recommend the food is delicious.  I think both our babies are in goood hands. . 

Ah yes Eidenhovens little security scare that left us stranded on the Commerical plane with the great unwashed for an hour and a half looking out of the open door.  

I am there again in a week and a half to check on progress. 

Andrew

[Hyett6420]

15 minutes ago, flyboy0681 said:

Always meant to ask, why are there hinges on the tail?

I don't follow, explain your question with a bit more detail. 

[flyboy0681]

2 minutes ago, Hyett6420 said:

I don't follow, explain your question with a bit more detail. 

Highlighted by the yellow circle, there appears to be hinges.

 

 

[flyboy0681]

10 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

The entire empenages of our Mooneys pivot utilizing that hinge instead of having traditional elevator trim tabs.  Have you never before noticed its absence on your Mooney?  The lower "thing" you see is not a hinge.  Mine is routed differently but it is probably wiring for the tail position light.

Jim

I have known about it, but never gave any thought to how it was accomplished mechanically. Actually pretty ingenious. Thanks for the insight.

[Hyett6420]

As part of our visit yesterday we had had Aeroskill look at the control feel as it always felt a bit heavy.  The aircraft is stored outdoors in a UK climate (yep rain).  One of the things apart from corrosion that gets affected badly by weather are the control surface hinges.  They tend to contain bearings and bushels.  A bushel is 40 euros by the way!  Now the aerilon hinges all have bearings in them. There are 6 in total. Now as Aeroskill said "it's a Mooney part" i.e. Expensive. I don't know the cost to replace them yet but mine all need replacing.  (I've contacted the bank!)  

My advice if you can't put baby in a hangar is to make sure that at least once a week or a couple of times a month you lubricate the hinges to make sure that the water that has got into the hinges is dispelled and doesn't have a chance to damage your hinge bearings.  That's PP advice not a mechanic so check with a Mooney a and p that this is ok advice. 

Andrew

[Emmet]

Then you might take a look at my tanks as well. Willem mentioned you might think about avionics in the future. I do have a source and CAD data for the panel if you need it ...

[Hyett6420]

36 minutes ago, flyboy0681 said:

Highlighted by the yellow circle, there appears to be hinges.

 

 

@M20Doc. Clarence. Can you please explain technically what that "hinge" is. I know it's there and I know Paul Beck explained it to me at the summit but the dementia kicked in and I've forgotten it's purpose. 

Andrew

[flyboy0681]

30 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

The lower "thing" you see is not a hinge.  Mine is routed differently but it is probably wiring for the tail position light.

 

Definitely a hinge according to the parts catalog and this picture.

[flyboy0681]

Regardless of what it's called, hard to believe the only thing standing between a safe flight and the tail coming off is that part.

[carusoam]

Anyone with a long body has had to review the fasteners that holds the hinge in place.  A handful have needed replacement...AD

Best regards,

-a-

[flyboy0681]

28 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Yep.  Agreed.  The same could be said of the tiny little bolts that hold the whole thing on.   

Since we don't hear about Mooney tails flying off, it's safe to assume it's a very solid design.

[Bob_Belville]

The best thing you guys that are puzzled about the empennage support mechanize can do is to remove the small covers from each side as has been done by the painter and run the pitch trim wheel stop to stop.    

(There was an AD 4-5 years ago involving the attachment of the rear flange of the hinge. A few planes weree assembled with a spacer on the wrong side of the hinge flange.)

[Bob_Belville]

Just now, bluehighwayflyer said:

I have heard a story that I think was told by former long time Mooney employee and test pilot Bill Wheat, who just recently passed away. The FAA was apparently also at first leery of the design, so Bill did a demonstration flight or flights for them with undersized bolts purposely installed and the tail flopping around more than could ever happen due to normal wear. Anyway, apparently it made for a wild ride, but the flight or flights were successful, the design was approved, and here we are all these years later.  I have never heard of a failure. 

Jim

...

Discussion

On February 16, 2012, we issued AD 2012-03-52, amendment 39-16958 (77 FR 12179, February 29, 2012), for certain Mooney Aviation Company, Inc. (Mooney) Models M20R and M20TN airplanes. That AD requires inspecting the tail pitch trim assembly for correct positioning and proper attachment and inspecting the Huck Bolt fasteners for proper security with repair as necessary. That AD also requires sending the inspection results to the FAA and Mooney. That AD resulted from a report of an incident on a Mooney Model M20TN airplane regarding failure of the tail pitch trim assembly, which could result in loss of control. We issued that AD to detect incorrect positioning and improper attachment of the trim fitting, hinge, and filler plate of the tail pitch trim assembly and to verify security of the attaching Huck Bolt fasteners, which could lead to failure of the tail pitch trim assembly with consequent loss of pitch control.

Actions Since AD Was Issued

Since we issued AD 2012-03-52 (77 FR 12179, February 29, 2012), we received a report from an owner/operator of a Model M20J airplane who had the airplane inspected and found the same unsafe condition. Since the Models M20B, M20C, M20D, M20E, M20F, M20G, M20J, M20K, M20L, M20M, and M20S airplanes have the same type design as the Models M20R and M20TN airplanes, we determined that these airplanes should be added to the applicability of the AD to ensure that the unsafe condition is addressed on all airplanes of the type design.

...

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2012/03/20/2012-6521/airworthiness-directives-mooney-aviation-company-inc-mooney-airplanes

[Bob_Belville]

My E was affected by the AD when it was expanded to all M20s.

[Hank]

56 minutes ago, flyboy0681 said:

Regardless of what it's called, hard to believe the only thing standing between a safe flight and the tail coming off is that part.

There's more than this hinge. Up above it is a 1/4" bolt that goes all the way through it is the pivot point for the tail.

Run your trim full up, get out and look at the tail then run it full down and look again. Even with the little bitty sheet metal covers in place, it's a surprising difference (maybe due took the height if the vertical stabilizer). 

Still not much in the way of support, but it works very well. As far as I know, mine has been in continuous service since 1970, with 3500-3600 hours, with no service at all other than occasional lubrication (I spray it down every time the covers are off, annual and occasional in-betweens like the AD referenced above. That was ten minutes removal and reinstall squatting under the tail, and 20 seconds' inspection by the IA.

[Guest]

On November 18, 2016 at 2:13 PM, thinwing said:

You two need to decide who's in command and which way you are going!

Andrew,

Aircraft Spruce sells a neat little tool used to grease those bearings while the flight controls are off.  I tried to find it on line with no luck.

Clarence

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Hyett6420 said:

@M20Doc. Clarence. Can you please explain technically what that "hinge" is. I know it's there and I know Paul Beck explained it to me at the summit but the dementia kicked in and I've forgotten it's purpose. 

Andrew

The entire tail group rotates on two small 1/4" bolts at the top of the tail opening.  The hinge section at the bottom provides stability for the tail group and limits its travel.  It was the subject of both an AD and a Mooney SB http://mooney.com/en/sb/M20-313A.pdf caused when there was an assembly error in production on a very few airplanes.

Clarence

[Hyett6420]

13 hours ago, M20Doc said:

The entire tail group rotates on two small 1/4" bolts at the top of the tail opening.  The hinge section at the bottom provides stability for the tail group and limits its travel.  It was the subject of both an AD and a Mooney SB http://mooney.com/en/sb/M20-313A.pdf caused when there was an assembly error in production on a very few airplanes.

Clarence

Thanks Clarence, I knew you would know.  

[jetdriven]

23 hours ago, Hyett6420 said:

As part of our visit yesterday we had had Aeroskill look at the control feel as it always felt a bit heavy.  The aircraft is stored outdoors in a UK climate (yep rain).  One of the things apart from corrosion that gets affected badly by weather are the control surface hinges.  They tend to contain bearings and bushels.  A bushel is 40 euros by the way!  Now the aerilon hinges all have bearings in them. There are 6 in total. Now as Aeroskill said "it's a Mooney part" i.e. Expensive. I don't know the cost to replace them yet but mine all need replacing.  (I've contacted the bank!)  

My advice if you can't put baby in a hangar is to make sure that at least once a week or a couple of times a month you lubricate the hinges to make sure that the water that has got into the hinges is dispelled and doesn't have a chance to damage your hinge bearings.  That's PP advice not a mechanic so check with a Mooney a and p that this is ok advice. 

Andrew

It's the stripper that ruins the control surface hinges. Also the pressure washing that paint shops often do after the stripper.   They are sealed ball bearings and applying oil to them from the outside won't do anything. 

Also did you ever get your wing corrosion issue handled? 

[Hyett6420]

Just now, jetdriven said:

It's the stripper that ruins the control surface hinges. Also the pressure washing that paint shops often do after the stripper.   They are sealed ball bearings and applying oil to them from the outside won't do anything. 

Also did you ever get your wing corrosion issue handled? 

Hi, the stripper hasnt damaged anything the ailerons were always heavy and squeaky so we knew we had an issue somewhere going in.   

Wing corrosion, it is being sorted as we speak.   Ive been in contect woth Paul Beck and he doesnt see it as a major issue. 

Andrew