Should I Buy?

[mike_elliott]

4 minutes ago, KSMooniac said:

Testwest's J does 165 knots on 10.5 gph...thanks to extreme drag reduction and light weight. Rare performance, though.

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N984VW, a stock 84 J,  does 160 on 8.3 GPH.LOP  9500' pics already posted a number of times here verifying. I haven't run it as hard as she'll go (80 ROP or so) just to see a couple more knots yet. 165 is believable with a tuned up plane.

[ArtVandelay]

You are NOT getting 167knots in a J unless you are going downhill.  Definitely NOT at 10.5GPH fuel burn.  What a load of $#@^.  Why do some feel the need to flat out lie about speed in what is already a fast airplane?

From the POH, at 2600rpm and 2300 lbs which is full tanks and single pilot, LOP no less

[ArtVandelay]

52 minutes ago, KSMooniac said:

Testwest's J does 165 knots on 10.5 gph...thanks to extreme drag reduction and light weight. Rare performance, though.

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Why do you think thats rare? See my post with page out of the POH

 

[KSMooniac]

Because most J's don't exhibit that kind of performance in the real world.

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[ArtVandelay]

10 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

He thinks it is rare because he has actually compared his aircraft's performance to that stated in the POH, as have I and many others. Have you?  

Yes, and it's very accurate, but I do have some of the 205 mods: fairings, wing tips, internal antennas, 1 piece belly, etc. I always figured since i wasn't  besting the POH numbers they weren't effective, maybe they do work.

[KSMooniac]

All of those help tremendously, and might get you close to POH speeds if you're lucky.  I believe the hand-built nature of Mooneys results in a spectrum of performance which translates into some planes are just faster than others.  It sounds like you have one of the faster birds.  I think it gets down to the quality of the wing skins during assembly, as well as the rigging, and of course number and type of antennas, fairings, etc.  

[Kejidog]

Wow. That escalated quickly. I will tell everyone that I chose to pass on the purchase. I understand the complexities of purchase much better now from my week of reading. The sophistication of the plane.  The distance from me, the added worry of non moving insurance until i build hours, and the 15% socialism fee (HST) we have in my home province on aircraft purchases, leaves me a bit short in the follow through. I can't reasonably ask a seller to hold off on other buyers  for me until I could get out to see it mid-June. If i passed he may have missed a sale.  If you love something, blah blah blah. 

 

Also a a very experienced owner of a very expensive RG piper had a  gear collapse on the runway while we were on final yesterday. Had to use a different runway,. It was my first landing! So that made me think twice. If a high time commercial guy can make a mistake or have a failure(not sure which) what about a student owner with no moving coverage- ouch. 

 

My time in a Moony  will come. For sure.  I have joined the Piper OH and the Cessna OG's now to look around. Not as friendly or as helpful so far as this site. Thanks for the comments and all the advice

 

Maybe a 172 or a cherokee is a good start   For a Beginner! Lol  what is funny though is the guys who told me i was crazy for thinking about purchase seem to be the most disappointed. Funny how that is

Bruce

 

 

 

Edited May 3, 2016 by Kejidog
Added punctuation.

[gsengle]

There is always another plane!

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[Kejidog]

1 hour ago, gsengle said:

There is always another plane!

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I know. I had already started dreaming of possibilities though.  And the future fun to be had. 

[gsengle]

Just browse Controller and Trade a Plane... That doesn't end even after you have your own

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[Guest]

8 hours ago, MyNameIsNobody said:

You are NOT getting 167knots in a J unless you are going downhill.  Definitely NOT at 10.5GPH fuel burn.  What a load of $#@^.  Why do some feel the need to flat out lie about speed in what is already a fast airplane?

It possible if you're running from a brand P.  Other than that it's an advertising ploy.

Clarence

[Samurai Husky]

8 hours ago, Kejidog said:

Wow. That escalated quickly. I will tell everyone that I chose to pass on the purchase. I understand the complexities of purchase much better now from my week of reading. The sophistication of the plane.  The distance from me, the added worry of non moving insurance until i build hours, and the 15% socialism fee (HST) we have in my home province on aircraft purchases, leaves me a bit short in the follow through. I can't reasonably ask a seller to hold off on other buyers  for me until I could get out to see it mid-June. If i passed he may have missed a sale.  If you love something, blah blah blah. 

 

Also a a very experienced owner of a very expensive RG piper had a  gear collapse on the runway while we were on final yesterday. Had to use a different runway,. It was my first landing! So that made me think twice. If a high time commercial guy can make a mistake or have a failure(not sure which) what about a student owner with no moving coverage- ouch. 

 

My time in a Moony  will come. For sure.  I have joined the Piper OH and the Cessna OG's now to look around. Not as friendly or as helpful so far as this site. Thanks for the comments and all the advice

 

Maybe a 172 or a cherokee is a good start   For a Beginner! Lol  what is funny though is the guys who told me i was crazy for thinking about purchase seem to be the most disappointed. Funny how that is

Bruce

 

 

 

Good call! I only stick around because i keep getting fantastic advice from all these people. By far they have been the most helpful out of any of the other forums i have been to. Dont get me wrong, i didnt like what i heard most of the time, but that didnt make it wrong  I think i still am mentally blocking some of it out because i keep looking at planes.

I say keep renting. At least with renting you can control the costs. If something happend and you had an unexpected expense, you can just not fly for a while. If you own the plane then you still have payments, tie down, insurance, etc that you have to pay regardless of if you fly.

There will always be another plane!

[MyNameIsNobody]

43 minutes ago, Hyett6420 said:

Sir (mynameisnobody) 

On checking I realised that I had been the first person to mention 167 knots so I am assuming your grotesque comment was aimed at me.  I was hurt and very offended by your comment as it was completely without foundation.  I do not write "$#@>" and I am also not a liar.  I was quoting the POH as saying they fly 167.  I personally have managed to get mine at 165 for the record.

Please may I ask that you remember that it is unnecessary to use foul language or insults to make a point.  As we say in the UK "manners maketh the man". 

I nearly deleted my user profile following your comment as I did not want to be part of any group where it was felt necessary that insults were made just to make a point, however I realised that one bad apple does not a barrel make.  

Regards

Andrew

When I read B.S. I expose it.  If you are serious...If you were truly offended, I feel sorry for you, but will offer you a congratulations on achieving 165 knots in your J.  I don't believe you did achieve that without the aid of wind, so I will simply state that your airspeed indicator was off or you are prone to exaggeration...Like most Mooney pilots are when it comes to true speed of their planes.  If you are quoting the POH then say so.

I don't live in utopia.  I understand that in the real world people use $%^& to describe $%^&.  In the US honesty and integrity loyalty make the the man.  Manners maketh the woman.

Oh I am definitely THAT apple in the barrel.  Calling a spade a spade is a beautiful thing.

Regards and good day to you sir.

Nobody

[jrwilson]

1 hour ago, Hyett6420 said:

Sir (mynameisnobody) 

On checking I realised that I had been the first person to mention 167 knots so I am assuming your grotesque comment was aimed at me.  I was hurt and very offended by your comment as it was completely without foundation.  I do not write "$#@>" and I am also not a liar.  I was quoting the POH as saying they fly 167.  I personally have managed to get mine at 165 for the record.

Please may I ask that you remember that it is unnecessary to use foul language or insults to make a point.  As we say in the UK "manners maketh the man". 

I nearly deleted my user profile following your comment as I did not want to be part of any group where it was felt necessary that insults were made just to make a point, however I realised that one bad apple does not a barrel make.  

Regards

Andrew

Please disregard "mynameisnobody" he has some pretty extreme personality disorders and should not be taken seriously.  For background, you should search "Scottfromiowa" which was his previous monicker on this site.  Scottfromiowa/mynameisnobody would go on such crazy tirades/rants, that he was blocked from the site by the administrator... Scott/nobody actually threw a tantrum about a year ago and claimed he would never post on this site again.  That same day, he created the alias of Mynameisnobody and was posting that same day...  Pretty pathetic but there you go...

There is a function on the site where you can ignore specific users.  You won't even see the posts...

[jrwilson]

Here is Scottfromiowa's last post.....

-a- You are a control freak. You do not like NOT being in control. This will be the last post I make on Mooneyspace. Dig a hole deeper? What are you a self-appointed parental figure? Get over yourself. This is the real world. There is vulgar language, insanity and oppression. You are just one more

That was February 18th, 2015

Mynameisnobody joined on February 19th, 2015....   

I guess if he made a new profile it is technically true that "Scottfromiowa" never posted again?  But Scott Thompson, aka mynameisnobody is still definitely posting.  A little schizophrenic reasoning in my opinion, but hey, to each their own...

[jetdriven]

22 hours ago, KSMooniac said:

Because most J's don't exhibit that kind of performance in the real world.

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I can get 171 knots in a flat out sea level drag race, but even with some pretty extensive aero mods, 160 knots in cruise and 163 knots, perhaps, ROP is all it will do. Meanwhile, cnoe's 201, which is pretty close to 1978 stock airplane, original paint, touchup tape lines tripping laminar flow and all that, is almost a dead heat.  Hand build quality is variable.

[1524J]

Since the OP has made his decision and the topic has "evolved" I'm curious as to why when we discuss the speed of our planes we use true airspeed. To me there are too many variables. The only time I'm concerned about my airspeed is when I'm about to or have entered the pattern or have just left the tarmac and am climbing to cruise. When I perform a speed test I'll climb to altitude, I like 7500', set up for cruise, and run the four Cardinal headings allowing the speed to stabilize after each change, then average the four GPS readings. My C, which is heavily modified, will do 150 knots....maybe just a tad more. The previous E I owned was considerably slower by about 10 knots. 

Looking forward to being educated.

 

[Kejidog]

Wow. Maybe we can close this topic now?  From being offended by typed symbols to calling people out for typing them. No more need to reply.  I was just asking about buying a plane and advice on prebuys. Have a great day and keep flying  

B

 

[1524J]

15 minutes ago, Kejidog said:

Wow. Maybe we can close this topic now?  From being offended by typed symbols to calling people out for typing them. No more need to reply.  I was just asking about buying a plane and advice on prebuys. Have a great day and keep flying  

B

 

You definitely need to have your big boy britches on when you post on Mooney Space. I like all the different personalities.

[bonal]

topics live and die but no one says maybe we can close a topic. saying that is almost a sure thing the topic will live on. Some of the most inane can live forever. Don't sweat it Kejidog this aint nothing, by the way three and four heading GPS at 8000ft 148 and 149 knots TAS in my high compression D

[ArtVandelay]

Since the OP has made his decision and the topic has "evolved" I'm curious as to why when we discuss the speed of our planes we use true airspeed. To me there are too many variables. The only time I'm concerned about my airspeed is when I'm about to or have entered the pattern or have just left the tarmac and am climbing to cruise. When I perform a speed test I'll climb to altitude, I like 7500', set up for cruise, and run the four Cardinal headings allowing the speed to stabilize after each change, then average the four GPS readings. My C, which is heavily modified, will do 150 knots....maybe just a tad more. The previous E I owned was considerably slower by about 10 knots. 

Looking forward to being educated.

 

The 4 cardinal or 3 cardinal method will actually result in a TAS less than actual, the higher the wind speed relative to the TAS of the plane, the higher the error. This is because wind that's on your beam requires you to fight wind to stay on course.

To test yourself, get your E6B computer out and try a simple 4 cardinal with winds from North, with speeds 100/50, your average will be 93.5, not 100 as expected.

And then it depends on air temperature, humidity...POH numbers assume standard conditions.

[bonal]

Just now, teejayevans said:

The 4 cardinal or 3 cardinal method will actually result in a TAS less than actual, the higher the wind speed relative to the TAS of the plane, the higher the error. This is because wind that's on your beam requires you to fight wind to stay on course.

To test yourself, get your E6B computer out and try a simple 4 cardinal with winds from North, with speeds 100/50, your average will be 93.5, not 100 as expected.

And then it depends on air temperature, humidity...POH numbers assume standard conditions.

So your saying My speed is even faster than 148.5 ding clang hot damn yippee $#1^...

[Raptor05121]

15 hours ago, bonal said:

by the way three and four heading GPS at 8000ft 148 and 149 knots TAS in my high compression D

I'm glad to hear that, I can't wait to clock mine. But aren't we the same 8.5:1 compression ratio as the Cs?

[ArtVandelay]

22 minutes ago, Raptor05121 said:

I'm glad to hear that, I can't wait to clock mine. But aren't we the same 8.5:1 compression ratio as the Cs?

You live in Florida, high temperatures and high humidity, and today high winds...all bad for doing performance runs. Want to improve your speeds:

1. Light winds aloft
2. cool, low humid day
3. clean,wax your plane
4. Add some weight to the baggage area to move the CG aft
5. other than 4, lighten the plane load as much as possible.

Do all that you'll improve you speeds by 15-20 knots!

[bonal]

8 hours ago, Raptor05121 said:

I'm glad to hear that, I can't wait to clock mine. But aren't we the same 8.5:1 compression ratio as the Cs?

Yes I was just waiting for Shadrach to slap me up side the head