Using MS Flight Simulator for IFR training

[M016576]

Hi all-

   I've been a big fan of Microsoft Flight Simulator for a number of years, more for fun than anything else.  A couple years back, I found a "1978 M20J addon" from a company called carevado (cost is $20, I think) and I downloaded it to assess fuel burns, fly it a bit and see what the routes would looks like for me if I were to actually buy an M20J.  I found it a useful tool which contributed to my choice of a M20J, and, (somewhat) surprisingly, the performance and "feel&look" of the airplane in microsoft flight simulator FSX "feels" accurate (to me).

   Recently a rash of posts have been made on staying IFR current, and seeking your IFR ratings.  I'm wondering (more out of curiousity than anything else) how many people out there fly hard IFR in microsoft flight simulator using either the mooney bravo that comes with it, or the Carevado M20J addon.  The M20J addon I downloaded has an older garmin GPS in it... but I found another website that has a Sandel 3308 and accurate Garmin 430W gauges (for a price, of course) which I'm considering buying to make my panel in flight simulator... well...actually mirror my real panel for a better IFR simulator. 

Has anyone tried this as a low cost trainer?  Any recommendations?  In my opinion, the ILS, VOR and NDB performance in FSX is excellent and doing the "aviating" in real(simulated)world 200 and 1/2 weather is good training....

                                             thoughts?   -JoB 

[Jeff_S]

I run a Mac so MSFX has never been available, but I've used X-Plane for years and also used it to practice during my IFR training.  I agree that it helps one learn the scan and it's a great, low-cost way to really see what happens when you're trying to fly the needles on an old-fashioned approach like a VOR or NDB, or even an ILS.  I haven't equipped my setup with all the add-ons to do GPS approaches, but really, they are so boring that it probably doesn't matter. 

Of course, in the real world, give me that boring magenta line and my GPSS-equipped auto pilot any day!

[M016576]

Quote: Jeff_S

I run a Mac so MSFX has never been available, but I've used X-Plane for years and also used it to practice during my IFR training.  I agree that it helps one learn the scan and it's a great, low-cost way to really see what happens when you're trying to fly the needles on an old-fashioned approach like a VOR or NDB, or even an ILS.  I haven't equipped my setup with all the add-ons to do GPS approaches, but really, they are so boring that it probably doesn't matter. 

Of course, in the real world, give me that boring magenta line and my GPSS-equipped auto pilot any day!

[flyguy241]

Actually, I find the real airplane easier to fly than MSFS.  I also have the Carendo M20J MSFS add on.  When I decided to finish my instrument rating, I just flew instrument approach after another on MSFS, when my instructor and I finally went to fly an ILS approach (in the real airplane) I nailed it the first time.  I think it is good for keeping your instrument scan current, but nothing can really replace practice approaches in the real airplane.

[carusoam]

MSFS is an excellent procedure trainer.  Get it right first on the PC, then go do it in the plane. 

It's the cheapest way to know the airport environment and the instrument approaches that you are going to face before you get there....

I am sure everyone will agree that MSFS is not a subsitute for real training, and its nav data gets old as it is not kept up to date.

Best regards,

-a-

[Piloto]

Quote: flyguy241

Actually, I find the real airplane easier to fly than MSFS.  I also have the Carendo M20J MSFS add on.  When I decided to finish my instrument rating, I just flew instrument approach after another on MSFS, when my instructor and I finally went to fly an ILS approach (in the real airplane) I nailed it the first time.  I think it is good for keeping your instrument scan current, but nothing can really replace practice approaches in the real airplane.

[Carl S]

Quote: Jeff_S

I run a Mac so MSFX has never been available, but I've used X-Plane for years a....

[N201MKTurbo]

You don't get the pucker factor like you do in real ice, rain, turbulence and dark, but it is a great way to perfect your procedures. If you can fly the computer well you will have no problem in the plane. Not to mention the fuel you will save.

[Sector95]

Heyyy I just got that Carenado M20J for FSX recently!  It flies much differently than the stock Mooney does.  I also like how you actually have to select the fuel tank in the Carenado version, in the stock one it burns from both tanks evenly.

I have an interesting phenomenon that I'm not sure is accurate or not.  When I come back to cruise, I usually set 2500 RPM and 20" of manifold.  However, after a bit of time, no matter how far I pull the prop out, I cannot lower the RPMs.  I can bring them back up to full, but not below 2500 RPM unless I pull back the throttle.  Is this true to life?  Or is this an error?  Could it just be how I have the mixture set (I noticed that if I leaned out a lot the RPMs would shoot up)?

Anyway, back to topic.  Considering I don't fly in real life (YET!), the sim is all the training I get...  So I'll take it! :-P

[Hank]

In my plane, any of the three knobs can be moved at any time, with immediate effect.

HOWSUMEVER, it's good practice to protect your engine and lower manifold pressure before reducing RPM, and to increase RPM before increasing manifold pressure.

Easy way to remember:

• 
  
• Push all three forward moving towards you [mixture rich, prop forward, then throttle up]
  
• Pull 'em back away from you [throttle back, prop back, lean mixture]
  

May as well establish good habits now, before the bad ones start costing you money!  :-)

[Sector95]

Good to know!  If you don't mind me askin', what's the reasoning behind this?

It sound to me that either I have found a glitch in the aircraft, my computer is goofing up, and/or I have my mixture set wrong.  If I go for peak EGT in this particular flight model, the RPMs shoot up to redline...  Is this normal?  None of the other aircraft in the simulator display this phenomenon.

[Hank]

I've never seen my RPMs move when adjusting mixture. Moving the prop will have an inverse affect on manifold pressure, though.

Move the levers in that order to protect the engine from power surges, and from the prop-man. pressure relationship.

[Jeff_S]

Quote: N223MM

Which version of X-Plane are you on? I have 8 but have not Loaded it on the Mac. Which yoke are you using? I am in the marked as my old joystick just wasn't cutting it the last few times I used it. Are there any issues in using the yoke/pedals/accessories with the Mac?

[eldeano]

I opted for the ASA IFR instrument simulator, it is a lot better for IFR then x-planes and msx. Costs about as much as an hour of training but will save you that easily.  Great for on top. 

[Magnum]

During my IR training I had to do 10hrs with the Elite trainer. So I bought that together with a COM/Nav and a GNS430 hardware. Not the cheapest solution but IMHO the best. Check http://www.flyelite.ch/en/index.php

[1964-M20E]

Resurrecting an old thread for fun.

 

I was looking thought some old information for Apple II computers and found an IFR flight simulator.  It was pretty neat they have about 5 to 8 different approaches that you could fly given the software was developed in the ealry 80's.  The localizer was reverse sensing the arrows for turning were backwards somewhat confusing on the first try.  I flew the ILS 24L at KLAX.  It actually tracked your path across the ground and would show it to you but only briefly in the emulator I was running.  I’m thinking about downloading I to a disk and running on my old Apple II at the house.  

[Marauder]

Resurrecting an old thread for fun.

 

I was looking thought some old information for Apple II computers and found an IFR flight simulator.  It was pretty neat they have about 5 to 8 different approaches that you could fly given the software was developed in the ealry 80's.  The localizer was reverse sensing the arrows for turning were backwards somewhat confusing on the first try.  I flew the ILS 24L at KLAX.  It actually tracked your path across the ground and would show it to you but only briefly in the emulator I was running.  I’m thinking about downloading I to a disk and running on my old Apple II at the house.  

 

I'll say you brought an old thread back! The student I am mentoring is a big fan of simulators. He owns both the Microsoft and some other FSX product. He told me that the MSFS version has problems with flight controls because of the linearity of the controls through their full movement. In a real plane, as we all know, it is harder to pull back due to airspeed we are traveling at or other factors. He told me there is an add-on product you can buy that will add in the non-linearity factor to make it feel more realistic.

 

The FSX product (sorry don't remember the name) has better control but worse scenery.

 

I still own the old Jepp IFR trainer product. Did a decent job of teaching the fundamentals -- that is until they obsoleted it.

[ArtVandelay]

For those who are cheap, search for flightgear, it's a free flight simulator.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[flyboy0681]

I used X-Plane 9.0 extensively during my instrument training, utilizing the Carendo M20J and RealityXP Garmin 530W. The control inputs were not anything like the real thing and pulling even slightly back on the yoke found me climbing at 2500fpm. What I did find it invaluable for was practicing procedures, mostly Holds, VOR and GPS approaches - this is where it shined and paid huge dividends because it's as real as it gets. And just when I became comfortable with garden variety approaches, I would flip through old issues of IFR Magazine and seek out approaches that they pointed out as being a little bit more hairy than most and then I would fly them.

 

I think using a home sim for instrument training is invaluable.