Squawks So Far...

[steingar]

So not long ago I was flying after a bit of a layoff.  I did one of the worst landings I've done, huge bounce.  As the top of that thing I was sufficiently prescient to realize I had a choice.  I could firewall the throttle and go around, or ride it out.  I chose the latter.  I knew I had plenty of runway, that I had hit the mains first, and that I had the yolk well back.  I figured the worst that could happen was a prop strike if I rode it out.  The worst that could happen if I firewalled it could be, well, quite a bit worse than that.  Lots more energy in my obviously ham-handed control inputs.

Turns out nothing was hurt but my ego.  I suspect our horrible landings seem far worse in the cockpit than they do from outside.  Thankfully the rest fly landings that day were considerably less dramatic.  But I think that in this aircraft, once the wheels tough pavement (however roughly) the airplane stays on the ground.  To much to do to takeoff while the aircraft tis moving.  Not for me.

[midlifeflyer]

19 hours ago, steingar said:

So not long ago I was flying after a bit of a layoff.  I did one of the worst landings I've done, huge bounce.  As the top of that thing I was sufficiently prescient to realize I had a choice.  I could firewall the throttle and go around, or ride it out.  I chose the latter.  I knew I had plenty of runway, that I had hit the mains first, and that I had the yolk well back.  I figured the worst that could happen was a prop strike if I rode it out.  The worst that could happen if I firewalled it could be, well, quite a bit worse than that.  Lots more energy in my obviously ham-handed control inputs.

Turns out nothing was hurt but my ego.  I suspect our horrible landings seem far worse in the cockpit than they do from outside.  Thankfully the rest fly landings that day were considerably less dramatic.  But I think that in this aircraft, once the wheels tough pavement (however roughly) the airplane stays on the ground.  To much to do to takeoff while the aircraft tis moving.  Not for me.

Good thing you didn't end up with egg on your face.

Yolks aside, you may want to practice that go-around from a bounce (and other situations). If you think it can make matters worse, it  suggests some (re)training is in order. Yes, some bounces are salvageable but the "standard*" taught response to a high bounce has, for many, many years, been a go-around.

[*"Standard" refers to generally accepted by the flight training and flight safety community.]

[Brian Scranton]

I had a pretty solid bounce during some night landings last week. Speed was fine, but I cut power a little too soon before the flare, and my sink rate increase in the 3 seconds before I touched down. Anyway, full power, and that nose went straight up (lots of back trim, lots of power, nose high already, stall horn, scary)...lesson learned...push that nose to take off attitude as you push to WOT. 

Still working with 80-85 on base...70 over the numbers...and all has been great (except for that bounce). If I cross the numbers at 85, I float for 800 feet. 

[Browncbr1]

Hi Brian,

at the risk of being further ridiculed for my lack of properly quantifying flying speeds, I'd suggest you're out of trim.  I've done that a few times following a long straight in approach.  It also requires more muscle holding the yoke back which kind of makes it difficult.   Try to trim with power off next time.  

 

Next time I'm flying with someone, I'll get them to take a video so I can see my ASI later.   It sounds like I don't know my numbers correctly because I routinely land within the first 1000ft and make the first turn off.  I must slow down pretty quickly just before flare, because I'm rarely under 80 on final unless I'm going to a shorter field.    I think I might be looking more at where the arc is rather than the number.  It's one reason why I bet it would take a while to get used to flying behind a glass panel with tape style ASI.   

[MyNameIsNobody]

38 minutes ago, Browncbr1 said:

Hi Brian,

at the risk of being further ridiculed for my lack of properly quantifying flying speeds, I'd suggest you're out of trim.  I've done that a few times following a long straight in approach.  It also requires more muscle holding the yoke back which kind of makes it difficult.   Try to trim with power off next time.  

 

Next time I'm flying with someone, I'll get them to take a video so I can see my ASI later.   It sounds like I don't know my numbers correctly because I routinely land within the first 1000ft and make the first turn off.  I must slow down pretty quickly just before flare, because I'm rarely under 80 on final unless I'm going to a shorter field.    I think I might be looking more at where the arc is rather than the number.  It's one reason why I bet it would take a while to get used to flying behind a glass panel with tape style ASI.   

 I am never under 80 on final.  Once I have runway made power comes out.  Plane slows down as I let it come down.  You are slowing down as plane descends without power.

[Shadrach]

80MPH is fine on final, though I think 70 is fine as well if weight dictates. 80 is almost always too fast over the threshold and there is NFW that 80-85mph over the numbers yields a 1000ft turn off no matter the weight. Single pilot at 85mph over the numbers will eat up 1000 ft before the wheels touch unless you "fly" it on.  

It's not about being perfect, it's about understanding the ideal and trying to be proficient. I know folks that can "drive" a manual transmission, but that does not mean they do it well...Downshifting without matching revs or rocking back and forth on a hill feathering the clutch waiting on a light to change.  Every driver likes to think they're a good driver... Every pilot likes to think they're a good pilot. The truth is that everyone has good days and not so good days. If you're not always trying to be proficient, then you really increase your odds of having a bad day.

[DXB]

I fight to make sure the ASI reads 75-79mph as I come up on the threshold with full flaps, then pull throttle to idle and focus outside.

[Brian Scranton]

20 hours ago, Browncbr1 said:

Hi Brian,

at the risk of being further ridiculed for my lack of properly quantifying flying speeds, I'd suggest you're out of trim.  I've done that a few times following a long straight in approach.  It also requires more muscle holding the yoke back which kind of makes it difficult.   Try to trim with power off next time.  

  

Thanks! I trim for 80mph abeam my landing point...then a little more trim as I slow to 70mph at the runway threshold...but I still have 12'' and 1700rpm at that point...as I begin my flare, I slowly pull the power all the way back, and at that point, I am not trimming, I am gently easing her onto the runway. So far, this has been working like a dream--greasing 90% of my landings within 50-100 feet of my spot.

[rainman]

Andy, I fly my 231 into Y47 several times a year to visit family. I agree that speed on final is key to making good landings. 

[Andy95W]

I'll keep my eyes open for you.  I always have cold beer in my hangar.

[steingar]

On March 16, 2016 at 1:05 PM, midlifeflyer said:

Good thing you didn't end up with egg on your face.

Damn autocorrect!

On March 16, 2016 at 1:05 PM, midlifeflyer said:

Yolks aside, you may want to practice that go-around from a bounce (and other situations). If you think it can make matters worse, it  suggests some (re)training is in order. Yes, some bounces are salvageable but the "standard*" taught response to a high bounce has, for many, many years, been a go-around.

[*"Standard" refers to generally accepted by the flight training and flight safety community.]

I think I'm going to stay with my own thoughts on this.  If something goes wrong on the runway surface you're looking at bent metal.  if it goes wrong in the air if could mean bent me.  The difference between what I experienced and what I dread (a porpoise with a prop strike) is I really wasn't trying to put the airplane down, I just pulled too much power too soon, and it bounced.  It did't porpoise or com close to it.  I have to admit, had I done that on a short runway I might have firewalled it and gone around.  Indeed a good discussion to think about these issues.  I'll need to hit a very short and very narrow runway in the immediate future, and it isn't a bad idea to have a plan in place in case things go wrong.

[Guitarmaster]

As far a bounces go, I feel this is an airplane that most bounces cannot be salvaged without using a lot of runway. The plane simply can not be forced onto the ground like a Cessna.

Whenever I have someone new, I tell them to fly it like a fast taildragger and you will be just fine.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Hank]

On March 12, 2016 at 4:22 PM, N1395W said:

Please do not try to force your Mooney onto the runway. That is asking for a porpoise and a prop strike.

This is weird . . . I'm not quoting anyone, this is Hank, not N1395W. This page never finishes loading, and the Reply box comes pre-populated with this quote box that won't go away.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Hank

[Mooneymite]

11 minutes ago, Hank said:

 

Yeah....I think the forum sometimes misplaces cookies, or some such confusion.  When it happens, I log out, close the browser and delete cookies.  When I log back in, everything is back to normal.

Hank.....?  Have you lost your cookies?  

[Hank]

No, my cookies are fine. They were good, though. Seems to have just been a hang up, it's working now. Weird.

[Andy95W]

I'm feeling a little violated, Hank...

[Hank]

7 minutes ago, N1395W said:

I'm feeling a little violated, Hank...

Yeah, me too . . .

there is little chance of even a casual observer confusing our Cs, though.