Another Cirrus Down - w/ chute deployment

[kpaul]

Engine quit at 2000' eight miles from the Republic Airport in Farmingdale, NY.

 http://abc7ny.com/news/father-daughter-saved-by-plane-deployed-parachute-when-aircraft-crashes-in-hauppauge-/1232648/

[Godfather]

Kind of hard to tell from the pictures but it looks like they landed via parachute between the building and power lines.  Probably could not have picked a better spot if they tried.  I'm glad they are ok!

[kpaul]

Ended up in the middle of an industrial park.  The chute was on top of the building showing the wind direction, another 10-15 seconds of drift time and they likely would have hit that building.  Overall, happy ending.

[DAVIDWH]

Sometimes those IO550's just stop running.

Now what?  Am presently sitting behind the same engine with no chute.

Got to get those Mooney engineers away from building planes with two doors and to focus

a bit more on saving pilots lives.

Great ending, definitely a families lucky day.

Best

[Hank]

Glad everyone is okay. Will be interesting to see what caused this event.

Thought this was an interesting thing to say:  "Officials say they were both shaken up, because once that parachute deployed, there is no way of knowing where you will land." There's been much debate about this on many aviation forums, pulling the chute and landing wherever the wind blows you, but this is the first I've ever read in an accident write up. To think that they were shaken up by their inability to control the landing point, and not by whatever made the engine stop eight miles from landing . . . This says volumes to me, but won't affect the "put a chute in every plane, cost and weight be damned" crowd at all.

[gsxrpilot]

I know there are a lot of possible reasons, but I wonder about the low altitude (2000 ft.), 8 miles out?

[Hank]

Isn't Farmingdale towered? I've been turned downwind at Class C about 1500 agl, over six miles out, then given airline traffic to follow in to land. Don't remember how long final was, but I turned base as soon as I saw the dots on final, and they were on the ground before I could turn base; it was a long final approach for sure.

[gsengle]

I know there are a lot of possible reasons, but I wonder about the low altitude (2000 ft.), 8 miles out?

That doesn't sound too low to me, if you're going 3 miles a minute you're only 2 mins from a 1100msl pattern descending 500fpm...

Yes Farmingdale is towered and is about as busy as a GA airport as you'll ever find. It's a zoo and not many good landing spots nearby except maybe some very busy highways.

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[Sabremech]

8 hours ago, DAVIDWH said:

Sometimes those IO550's just stop running.

Now what?  Am presently sitting behind the same engine with no chute.

Got to get those Mooney engineers away from building planes with two doors and to focus

a bit more on saving pilots lives.

Great ending, definitely a families lucky day.

Best

I'm interested in hearing why the engine quit, mechanical, pilot error? Why another Cirus down? 

There's no guarantee's just because there's a chute.

[Deb]

Video of landing:

http://abc7ny.com/news/video-father-daughter-saved-by-plane-deployed-parachute-when-aircraft-crashes-in-hauppauge-/1235493/

Direct link here:

http://youtu.be/jP8rjHtlYH0

It's definitely not gently wafting down...

Edited March 8, 2016 by Deb
Added direct link

[Hank]

Cheesy reporting, but the video was interesting! Nice 3-point landing (mains and tail) before bouncing high and nose heavy, collapsing the nose gear with a simultaneous prop strike. No way would I want to take that ride, anything but gentle. Also don't want an airframe repaired after a chute pull.

glad nobody was hurt. Will be interesting the first time one parachutes onto someone . . . 

[Shadrach]

36 minutes ago, Hank said:

Will be interesting the first time one parachutes onto someone . . . 

Can you say thread the needle lucky. Unfortunately a ground fatality is going to happen; it's just a matter of time. I'm glad that Cirrus and the nonflying public underneath pilots seem to be getting through these instances unscathed. May it continue as long as possible! That is the first time I've seen video of how a cirrus contacts the ground under canopy. I can only imagine what it would be like without the gear ther to take the impact. It's more violent than I thought it would be.

[Marauder]

Cheesy reporting, but the video was interesting! Nice 3-point landing (mains and tail) before bouncing high and nose heavy, collapsing the nose gear with a simultaneous prop strike. No way would I want to take that ride, anything but gentle. Also don't want an airframe repaired after a chute pull.

glad nobody was hurt. Will be interesting the first time one parachutes onto someone . . . 

I'd take that ride in a heart beat compared to trying to land in that industrial park. Not a lot of options in that area.

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[Marauder]

The building next to where they ended up is a competitor of my company. Where would you put a Mooney down in this? The center of the picture is where they set down.

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[Ned Gravel]

I've had landings like that, when I forgot to cut the pack loose before my landing.  Just once though.

[mike_elliott]

4 hours ago, Shadrach said:

Can you say thread the needle lucky. Unfortunately a ground fatality is going to happen; it's just a matter of time. I'm glad that Cirrus and the nonflying public underneath pilots seem to be getting through these instances unscathed. May it continue as long as possible! That is the first time I've seen video of how a cirrus contacts the ground under canopy. I can only imagine what it would be like without the gear ther to take the impact. It's more violent than I thought it would be.

The gear is essential for energy absorption. A number of years ago, a dentist who hangered 2 doors down pulled the chute in his brand new SR22 and landed in a pond. He didn't survive. I suspect the impact was much harder because of the water. 

[MB65E]

Interesting, I bet they all now have 26g seats in them. The guy in Hawaii stuffed it in the ocean last year. He was probably younger than the dentist, but it brings up a good point.  

-Matt

[Shadrach]

4 hours ago, Marauder said:

 

The building next to where they ended up is a competitor of my company. Where would you put a Mooney down in this? The center of the picture is where they set down.

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I don't know where I would put down and neither did he. The advantage to the chute is the descent angle and slow (relative) speed. Disadvantage, no control. 

Thinking about it further, at 8 miles from the airport, I'd be in the descent indicating ~165kias. So to have a chance at answering the question, we would need to know how much distance the surplus speed over best glide would yield, then add that distance to glide distance left after achieving best glide. I'd guess maybe 5 miles from engine out to hitting dirt.

[Shadrach]

This is a rough estimation of the max glide area of a 200hp Mooney at descent speed. There are certainly places for a controlled crash that avoid people and structures. There is certainly no indication that the outcome would have been better, nor are there indications that it would have been worse. Given time to think about it, I'd have likely ended up in the water.

 

 

[Marauder]

This is a rough estimation of the max glide area of a 200hp Mooney at descent speed. There are certainly places for a controlled crash that avoid people and structures. There is certainly no indication that the outcome would have been better, nor are there indications that it would have been worse. Given time to think about it, I'd have likely ended

 

 

That area is really congested. The major road just south is the LIE. That would be packed with traffic. The rest is heavily residential. There are a couple of green spaces, but not an area I would want to check out my glide ratio.

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[PMcClure]

I am actually impressed that he had the training and presence of mind to pull the chute at 2000'. What's the minimum effective altitude it works? Like 1000'. He literally had seconds to decide to do it and execute. I have to say job well done (pending further investigation why the engine quit!)

 

[Joe Zuffoletto]

Just east of Islandia in the above screen grabs is the Long Island MacArthur Airport, 3 miles closer to the landing spot than Farmington Republic. Don't know what the winds were doing, but that's probably where I would have headed in my Acclaim. But, as stated before, not a lot of good choices if you have to land without a chute.

[wishboneash]

According to the BRS website, the chute will fully inflate 260 to 290 ft AGL. That is quite amazing.

[chrisk]

On 3/6/2016 at 5:47 PM, Sabremech said:

I'm interested in hearing why the engine quit, mechanical, pilot error? Why another Cirus down? 

There's no guarantee's just because there's a chute.

I'm under the impression that running out of fuel is the number one cause for a GA planes engine to quit.  That would be my first guess.

[aviatoreb]

31 minutes ago, Joe Zuffoletto said:

Just east of Islandia in the above screen grabs is the Long Island MacArthur Airport, 3 miles closer to the landing spot than Farmington Republic. Don't know what the winds were doing, but that's probably where I would have headed in my Acclaim. But, as stated before, not a lot of good choices if you have to land without a chute.

I live in a rural area, and when I have done my BFR's, I always get the usual "oops your engine just quit, now where will you land" and happily there is always some kind of reasonable field I can head toward.  Its sort of easy picking a decent field when there are fields everywhere.  At my home airport, I have best options picked out ahead of time - we all should - since at least half of our flights start there so home is the most likely airfield to have a problem.

But departing from urban or even suburban airports I sometimes look out the window and think gee whiz engine, keep going!  It is not clear that even if there is a good option nearby that it will be the one you will notice under duress and choose that best one - or will you first notice someplace that looks good enough then as you glide closer that field it turns out to be a little league full of little kids so at the last minute you decide to go for a street...which turns out to be full of cars, so then you want to extend your glide a bit too long for the next option, and then boom.