why NOT vintage?

[eman1200]

other than being old, really old, being squeaky, loose nuts and bolts, etc............what are some reasons to stay away from vintage mooneys?

[Sabremech]

The only reason I can think of is someone can afford a more expensive Mooney than Vintage. 

[eman1200]

4 minutes ago, Sabremech said:

The only reason I can think of is someone can afford a more expensive Mooney than Vintage. 

perfectly valid reason.

[Hank]

34 minutes ago, eman1200 said:

other than being old, really old, being squeaky, loose nuts and bolts, etc............what are some reasons to stay away from vintage mooneys?

Well, sorry to hear you're doing so poorly lately. And here I thought you were young . . . I do know some "older" pilots who still fly their Vintage Mooneys. Maybe a good workout program will get you in shape?  

[NotarPilot]

Maybe "more capable " instead of "more expensive " would have been a better word.

[eman1200]

26 minutes ago, Hank said:

Well, sorry to hear you're doing so poorly lately. And here I thought you were young . . . I do know some "older" pilots who still fly their Vintage Mooneys. Maybe a good workout program will get you in shape?  

aaaah yes!  I see what u did there.........well done Hank!  but I AM in shape...........round IS a shape!

[HRM]

It's all economics in the end.

 

[carusoam]

There are a few phases you and your plane may go through in life.  Old and squeaky isn't so bad...

Worn out and unused can get really expensive.

It is better to stay in shape than it is to recover from an injury.  (Sign on the wall in the gym)

 

Dose of reality...

1) There is nothing wrong with the design or construction of a vintage Mooney.

2) They have maintenance requirements that can't be ignored.

3) If they have been maintained well, they perform as good as the day they were built.

4) The buy-in price is typically lower than the price of a house.

5) The Maintenace price is typical of a nice family vacation.  Not any less than a newer Mooney.

6) Insurance price is similar to planes that cost as much as a house.

7) MS has demonstrated that a new Instrument Panel can be installed to improve capabilities.

8) Fuel tanks can be refreshed and increased in capacity to meet your personal requirements.

9) Bob and Harley have shown what nice Es are capable of...  Kinda super special!

10) Chris has demonstrated the complexities of IFR flight with an Aspen enhanced IP in a plane he has had for 20+ years.

11) Lance has one of the coolest power plants in an E, a TNIO360.

12) Hank has an incredibly able C.

13) There are soooo many more here.

14) A vintage Mooney suffers the same fate of many modern Mooneys.  Neglect.  PPIs are important no matter which one you select.  Many people do not sell their planes because they want to...

Some things have washed out over the years. These are the things that take extra effort to really enjoy.  Wood wings need special attention. Anything with a Porsche engine in it needs a long term care plan.  Anything that has been left out in the sun for forty or more years may not be as a nice as one that has been garage kept...

Instrument panels should have an engine monitor built in the 90s or newer. A GPS capable of instrument approaches for flight in IMC.  Yes, the world is going this direction.  X ponder with ADSB. A wicked cool iPad mounted somewhere.

The only things that Vintage Mooneys didn't get that showed up later, was air intakes that were improved to handle water and ice better, Turbos, FIKI and AC systems. There are a couple around here where a J cowling or closure of some sort has improved performance over the original classic design.  There may be a new cowl enclosure on the market soon..?

Once retirement becomes part of the mission, the back seats become less important.  Finances may become constrained. Desire never leaves...

Go Mooney!

Select your Powerplant first, then decide what length plane you want it in. Fill out the Instrument Panel with whatever coinage you have left.

I started with a vintage C.  It was worn out when I got it.  It was run-out by the time I was done with it. We parted ways amicably. It got refurbed by the next owner. 

Does that help?

Best regards,

-a-

 

[DXB]

Vintage Mooneys are horrible for people who hate getting way more performance and fun than they paid for   

However they may be entirely appropriate for a buyer who can afford a much more expensive plane but has some grasp of this "value" concept  

[eman1200]

9 minutes ago, carusoam said:

There are a few phases you and your plane may go through in life.  Old and squeaky isn't so bad...

Worn out and unused can get really expensive.

It is better to stay in shape than it is to recover from an injury.  (Sign on the wall in the gym)

 

Dose of reality...

1) There is nothing wrong with the design or construction of a vintage Mooney.

2) They have maintenance requirements that can't be ignored.

3) If they have been maintained well, they perform as good as the day they were built.

4) The buy-in price is typically lower than the price of a house.

5) The Maintenace price is typical of a nice family vacation.  Not any less than a newer Mooney.

6) Insurance price is similar to planes that cost as much as a house.

7) MS has demonstrated that a new Instrument Panel can be installed to improve capabilities.

8) Fuel tanks can be refreshed and increased in capacity to meet your personal requirements.

9) Bob and Harley have shown what nice Es are capable of...  Kinda super special!

10) Chris has demonstrated the complexities of IFR flight with an Aspen enhanced IP in a plane he has had for 20+ years.

11) Lance has one of the coolest power plants in an E, a TNIO360.

12) Hank has an incredibly able C.

13) There are soooo many more here.

14) A vintage Mooney suffers the same fate of many modern Mooneys.  Neglect.  PPIs are important no matter which one you select.  Many people do not sell their planes because they want to...

Some things have washed out over the years. These are the things that take extra effort to really enjoy.  Wood wings need special attention. Anything with a Porsche engine in it needs a long term care plan.  Anything that has been left out in the sun for forty or more years may not be as a nice as one that has been garage kept...

Instrument panels should have an engine monitor built in the 90s or newer. A GPS capable of instrument approaches for flight in IMC.  Yes, the world is going this direction.  X ponder with ADSB. A wicked cool iPad mounted somewhere.

The only things that Vintage Mooneys didn't get that showed up later, was air intakes that were improved to handle water and ice better, Turbos, FIKI and AC systems. There are a couple around here where a J cowling or closure of some sort has improved performance over the original classic design.  

Once retirement becomes part of the mission, the back seats become less important.  Finances may become constrained. Desire never leaves...

Go Mooney!

Select your Powerplant first, then decide what length plane you want it in. Fill out the Instrument Panel with whatever coinage you have left.

I started with a vintage C.  It was worn out when I got it.  It was run-out by the time I was done with it. We parted ways. It got refurbed by the next owner. 

Does that help?

Best regards,

-a-

 

yes, it helped.  anything that is thought-provoking, which was the point of this thread, is helpful.  thanks!

[Hank]

Hey, eman--I'm stuck down here in the rain with a freakin' Monkey . . . But he'll fit in my C with me anyway . . .  

[carusoam]

The nicest part of my C experience...

I got to experiment with airplane ownership with a family of four.  Before that, We had no airplane experience other than I was a PP.

I call it a successful experiment.  It lead to spending money on an IR, which lead to spending more money on an LB...

It has kept my family together even though we live 200nm away from each other.  Nothing like flying back-home for lunch and being back for some kid's ball game later that evening...

Best regards,

-a-

[eman1200]

1 minute ago, Hank said:

Hey, eman--I'm stuck down here in the rain with a freakin' Monkey . . . But he'll fit in my C with me anyway . . .  

no flying opportunities this past weekend?   you know, I haven't tried to enlist any help outside of PoA, but if we're really stuck we could reach out here.  what's your schedule looking like?

[3914N]

3 hours ago, eman1200 said:

other than being old, really old, being squeaky, loose nuts and bolts, etc............what are some reasons to stay away from vintage mooneys?

Okay, I'll take the plunge.

(Unmodified) vintage Mooneys are not ergonomic airplanes.  My head is close to the windshield, there is no storage for anything up-front, and the engine controls are too high for my hand to use comfortably.  The cowl is poorly designed and the engine runs hot.  

But I love my '68.  It's not the most comfortable I've flown, its not the fastest (I have a G-model), but it's the all-around best.  I think it offers the best balance of capability and cost of any airplane on the market.  My vintage Mooney is distinctive and it's a blast to fly.  In my mind, it's way better designed than the Cessna and Pipers of the day, and it will do 25 knots better on the same operational cost.

...If you're comparing vintage Mooney's to the newer ones, of course there's a capability difference.  They don't do 200 ktas, they don't have A/C, they don't do FIKI, and they don't have that new airplane smell.  But, they also don't need a mortgage

Edited March 2, 2016 by 3914N
typo

[Hank]

Had company last week, through Sunday. May get a chance this weekend. Vintage Mooneys are incredibly versatile!

[Hank]

Just now, 3914N said:

Okay, I'll take the plunge.

(Unmodified) vintage Mooneys are not ergonomic airplanes.  My head is close to the windshield, there is no storage for anything up-front, and the engine controls are too high for my hand to use comfortably.  The cowl is poorly designed and the engine runs hot.  

But I love my '68.  It's not the most comfortable I've flown, its not the fastest (I have a G-model), but it's the all-around best.  I think it offers the best balance of capability and cost of any airplane on the market.  My vintage Mooney is distinctive and it's a blast to fly.  In my mind, it's way better designed than the Cessna and Pipers of the day, and it will do 25 knots better on the same operational cost.

...If you're comparing vintage Mooney's to the newer ones, of course there's a capability difference.  They don't do 200 ktas, they don't have A/C, they don't do FIKI, and they don't have that new airplane smell.  But, they also don't need a mortgage

And ours start easily--hot, cold or frozen.

[jetdriven]

17 minutes ago, Hank said:

And ours start easily--hot, cold or frozen.

so does mine, even with the crappy prestolite Chrysler starter.

[LevelWing]

3 hours ago, eman1200 said:

other than being old, really old, being squeaky, loose nuts and bolts, etc............what are some reasons to stay away from vintage mooneys?

I see no reason to stay away from them, generally speaking. If you have the money and want something faster or more modern then go for it. Mine was my first airplane purchase and I couldn't be happier. It's economical and practical for my needs. 

[Marauder]

Just keep in mind, "modern" doesn't mean they don't break, they do. Ownership of vintage and modern isn't free either way.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Sabremech]

10 hours ago, NotarPilot said:

Maybe "more capable " instead of "more expensive " would have been a better word.

Nope, I know plenty of Vintage Mooneys that are more capable than many of the more expensive airplanes, so I'll stick with my more expensive comment. 

[Bryan1016]

I had great times with my C. Very versatile - grass strips, short strips...flew wife and two kids all over SE. Hot or cold, they start so easy. Amazing how important this becomes when going into places with zero help like Dog Island.

I'm trying to buy a turbo now and hoping I don't regret leaving fun and simplicity of the nimble short bodies.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rbridges]

Parts may be another reason.  May not apply so much to mooney now, but it applies to some makes where the only parts available are through salvage yards.

[Shadrach]

On March 2, 2016 at 11:16 PM, Hank said:

And ours start easily--hot, cold or frozen.

What is it with you guys and the hot start thing? An O360 is a wonderful engine, but is designed to only deliver a "close enough" mixture to all of the cylinders. Someone has misled you into believeing that port fuel injection is somehow less optimal for starting under certain conditions. It's not, it is superior. It does makes it easier for a ham fisted pilot to flood the engine.  

Having an 80,000btu grill makes it easier to burn meat, but that's not the grill's fault

Listening to you guys, you'd   think that at fly-ins all of the C and G models fire up and taxi out while the rest of us sit parked abusing our starters. 

At the Jersey fly-in, we had lunch, everyone fired right up and left or taxied to the pumps for the cheapest gas in the mid-Atlantic ...then fired up again and left. 

Hot start issues with an IO are due to poor system MX or poor technique.

[Yetti]

Once you learn how, it is just starting.  does not matter when or how.

if you think about it vintage birds are much less per mile than newer. vintage electronics are much cheaper to keep.

[Marauder]

Parts may be another reason.  May not apply so much to mooney now, but it applies to some makes where the only parts available are through salvage yards.

No longer a problem now that we have Alan "The Boogie Man" Fox on the job.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk