New panel

[DaV8or]

Good to know. Maybe some day the prices will come down on these things and tempt me, but I'm not holding my breath.

[wishboneash]

What does the indicator look like for more than 30 deg of bank? Say 50 or 55 deg? 

[Guest]

Next time I fly, I'll shoot an image of that for you wishboneash.

[ryoder]

9 hours ago, DaV8or said:

Good to know. Maybe some day the prices will come down on these things and tempt me, but I'm not holding my breath.

Me neither.  My 2013 Corvette has analog gagues and they look great.  The 1984 had digital and they were terrible.

[ArtVandelay]

9 hours ago, DaV8or said: Good to know. Maybe some day the prices will come down on these things and tempt me, but I'm not holding my breath.

Me neither.  My 2013 Corvette has analog gagues and they look great.  The 1984 had digital and they were terrible.

Do you wear an analog watch?

I think the more information that needs to be displayed, it digital has advantages over simple analog, the 84 vette actually display speed in both digital and analog (ramp of bars). The Engine monitors remind of that.

[DonMuncy]

Dave Morris has some interesting thoughts (maybe you can search for his posts) about what information should be shown by digital vs analog. My opinion is that when the minute details are important (like radio frequencies), use digital. But for the most part, I don't care if I am flying at 158 or 162 knots, nor whether my engine is turning at 2475 or 2525 rpm, so I generally prefer analog.  

[ArtVandelay]

Dave Morris has some interesting thoughts (maybe you can search for his posts) about what information should be shown by digital vs analog. My opinion is that when the minute details are important (like radio frequencies), use digital. But for the most part, I don't care if I am flying at 158 or 162 knots, nor whether my engine is turning at 2475 or 2525 rpm, so I generally prefer analog.  

Some are both, EGTs for example, for LOP you need digital, but just checking the health of engine, analog is better, I put JPI into normalize mode, a quick glance tells me if something amiss.

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[amillet]

Day 1 of avionics install

[donkaye]

38 minutes ago, amillet said:

Day 1 of avionics install

It could be worse. The start of my upgrade several years ago.

[DaV8or]

23 hours ago, teejayevans said:

Do you wear an analog watch?

I think the more information that needs to be displayed, it digital has advantages over simple analog, the 84 vette actually display speed in both digital and analog (ramp of bars). The Engine monitors remind of that.

I wear both. For everyday, I wear a digital solar G-Shock, when I go out, or on vacation, I have several analogs. I like digital and glass displays just fine. However there is a point where the manufacturers tend to give you information overload. I would love to have a Aspen 1000 and a GTN 650, or this 440, but I really want one of you all to pay for it.  

[ryoder]

On November 22, 2015 at 9:29:02 PM, DaV8or said:

I have often wondered, but never bothered to investigate much because I can't afford the price tag anyway, but are Aspens customizable to get rid of info? Can you basically make a 1000 say into just the glass equivalent of a an HSI and AI? When I look at them I just see way too much crap on the screens. The old six pack is really not bad at giving just what you need to know to fly the plane. 

My AI has tured out to be a piece of crap and lops over crooked about 5 degrees (I bought it new), but the warranty has long expired and I really don't need it in my VFR flying. Of course my HI precesses all the time like all the HIs I have ever known. So I fantasize about a Aspen to take care of these two things, but for the same money I could buy a new car, or remodel the bathroom. I need to keep perspective. I don't know if I'll ever fly IFR again. Just curious.

I fantasized about the Aspen until I saw how low the resolution was in person.  It's hard to read.

My iPad retina screen is a million times higher in clarity and so is my three year old Android phone at 1920x1080 resolution.  

For me, the resolution of a real instrument that responds instantaneously is preferable.  However, I don't like a precessing gyro either.  Mine is recently refurbished and has to be adjusted every fifteen minutes while maneuvering.  

Here is my new thinking and it is based on usability functionality and financials.  Leave the instruments alone and invest in the center stack.  If you look at my Mooney that center stack is where the innovation went over the years and it makes sense.  I also want to wait as long as possible to do any upgrades because these components are obsolete a year after they hit the market.

[Marauder]

On November 22, 2015 at 9:29:02 PM, DaV8or said: I have often wondered, but never bothered to investigate much because I can't afford the price tag anyway, but are Aspens customizable to get rid of info? Can you basically make a 1000 say into just the glass equivalent of a an HSI and AI? When I look at them I just see way too much crap on the screens. The old six pack is really not bad at giving just what you need to know to fly the plane. 

My AI has tured out to be a piece of crap and lops over crooked about 5 degrees (I bought it new), but the warranty has long expired and I really don't need it in my VFR flying. Of course my HI precesses all the time like all the HIs I have ever known. So I fantasize about a Aspen to take care of these two things, but for the same money I could buy a new car, or remodel the bathroom. I need to keep perspective. I don't know if I'll ever fly IFR again. Just curious.

I fantasized about the Aspen until I saw how low the resolution was in person.  It's hard to read.

My iPad retina screen is a million times higher in clarity and so is my three year old Android phone at 1920x1080 resolution.  

For me, the resolution of a real instrument that responds instantaneously is preferable.  However, I don't like a precessing gyro either.  Mine is recently refurbished and has to be adjusted every fifteen minutes while maneuvering.  

Here is my new thinking and it is based on usability functionality and financials.  Leave the instruments alone and invest in the center stack.  If you look at my Mooney that center stack is where the innovation went over the years and it makes sense.  I also want to wait as long as possible to do any upgrades because these components are obsolete a year after they hit the market.

Interesting observation on the Aspen. Especially since it has better resolution than the GTN 650 I have.

One thing you will find with these displays (regardless of manufacturer), backlighting correctly makes the world of difference.

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[PTK]

7 hours ago, ryoder said:

I fantasized about the Aspen until I saw how low the resolution was in person.  It's hard to read....

...For me, the resolution of a real instrument that responds instantaneously is preferable...

...Here is my new thinking and it is based on usability functionality and financials.  Leave the instruments alone and invest in the center stack.  ..

This is wisdom and I couldn't have said it better myself!

A subtle point which neither Aspen nor Garmin, for that matter, talk about and don't publish is processor speed! As it was explained to me resolution is meaningless if its not supported by processor speed. The two go hand in hand.

Aspen lacks processor horsepower. This is why it appears choppy and not fluid smooth when compared to Garmin. Especially with SV Aspen's slower processor is heavily taxed. 

When was the last time Aspen upgraded the hardware?

 

[ryoder]

My iPad Air 2 has 2048x1537 resolution.  My phone which is about 4 inches has 1920x1080 and a quad core processor with 2gb ram.  The phone is over two years old now and is obsolete.

Its like GM put a NAV unit in the Corvette in 2005 and it persisted until 2014.  By 2008 it was a piece of junk.  People swapped it out for a $900 unit from Crutchfield and spent a couple hundred on install kits to integrate it with the XM satellite radio.  Every few years Coevette owners can replace their NAV with the latest tech but nobody pulls out the speedometer and tach.  This is where airplanes could go if there were enough units being sold and if the FAA would concentrate on real problems.

[Marauder]

7 hours ago, ryoder said: I fantasized about the Aspen until I saw how low the resolution was in person.  It's hard to read....

...For me, the resolution of a real instrument that responds instantaneously is preferable...

...Here is my new thinking and it is based on usability functionality and financials.  Leave the instruments alone and invest in the center stack.  ..

This is wisdom and I couldn't have said it better myself!

A subtle point which neither Aspen nor Garmin, for that matter, talk about and don't publish is processor speed! As it was explained to me resolution is meaningless if its not supported by processor speed. The two go hand in hand.

Aspen lacks processor horsepower. This is why it appears choppy and not fluid smooth when compared to Garmin. Especially with SV Aspen's slower processor is heavily taxed. 

When was the last time Aspen upgraded the hardware?

 

Wow! And I thought I would get through one holiday without Peter Garmin popping up.

At the speeds we fly, processor speed has no effect on the display. Perhaps in a SR-72. The reality is that you have zero PIC stick time with any glass cockpits and you keep drawing conclusions on speculation. I really need to get you up in my Mooney and give you some real experience to base your claims on.

It is a real disservice to all those people looking at this technology and trying to make a decision based on real life experience. And for anyone who wants to make their decision based on seeing the equipment in action, feel free to PM if you are in the area. I would be more than willing to let you draw your own conclusions from real experience.

If you are really interested in glass, you can't go wrong with either a Garmin or Aspen panel.

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[PTK]

Here you go again!

Your impression is incorrect and so are your conclusions. The reality is you don't know what "pic time"I or anyone has! Do you!? 

The reality also is that processor speed has a huge effect on the display. There's a lot of constant movement and the display has to refresh and change constantly. I happen to have enough "pic time"and "real life experience" with both to be able go formulate an opinion.

IMO the Aspen display is choppy compared to the fluid smooth G500. Especially the recent newly upgraded G500. This difference is due primarily to processor speed differences. I draw conclusions not on "speculation" as you say, but on my own observations and advice from the experts. 

Now, since you brought up "disservice" it appears, and on the contrary, you are doing a major disservice by evading the question! But allow me to ask it again:

When was the last time Aspen upgraded their hardware? 

Have a wonderful and happy Thanksgiving Chris!!

[Bennett]

Perhaps it would be useful to distinguish between glass as used in the navigation, engine instrumentation, radios, and the flight instruments. I truly enjoy the newest glass navigators+ like the GTN series, the AERA "portables", with their touch screens, the JPI 830-930 units, and more, but, and this is a personal decision based on several years of flying behind the newest and greatest Dynon SkyView glass panels, I prefer analog "steam gauges" for the VSI, ASI, and Altimeter. I think, for me at least, that a quick glance at a needle' position provides one step information, faster than viewing a digital tape, and then mentally thinking about it. But then again I prefer my analog Rolex to my son's Apple watch. I grant you that true EFIS, with synthetic vision can give you a big picture view of the world , but personally I think the Aspen display is a bit small for my tired old eyes, as opposed to the Dynon's 7 or 10 inch displays. The very newest Dynon SkyView glass panels have an optional screen variation: the "sacred six" round gauges display, with digital engine, and radio information. I wish Dynon would enter the certified marketplace, or that certified aircraft could use Dynon (and others) instrumentation - perfectly legal for IFR in experimentals, and in those LSAs where the manufacturer is willing to allow them to used for IFR in their ASTM filings.

I do have to say that my new AOA (CYA-100) mounted alongside my vertical compass, and thus in sight out the windshield is a better presentation of viewing critical data when landing (or taking off) than either tapes or dials.

[Jerry 5TJ]

The Glass does take some time to learn.  More than I expected.

 

My last plane was my first with glass - G500.  I was still learning more about it far longer than expected. After 20 hours I began to feel somewhat comfortable. At 100 I was still finding new features & learning how to garner more from my scan. At about 150 hours I was totally sold & convinced I could fly the G500 more accurately than the steam gauge panel I had used the prior 2000 hours. 

My new to me Ovation has G500 and as I now have about 500 hours staring at G500 it looks familiar. But the GTN750 is new and I can see it's going to take some hours to learn. 

I have never used Aspen so I don't have a dog in the Aspen vs Garmin fight. But I am convinced a glass PFD / MFD is superior to steam gauge for accuracy, ease of scan, and situational awareness.

 

 

[amillet]

Install almost finished.  Testing tomorrow.

Also fixed the clock light that hasn't worked in the 11 years we've owned N1084L

[tony]

Your panel looks fantastic.  I know that your put a lot of time and money into creating your personalized flying machine.  I sure you will enjoy it!!

[Marauder]

Install almost finished.  Testing tomorrow.

Also fixed the clock light that hasn't worked in the 11 years we've owned N1084L

Excellent! Please take a short video of you signing the final check. My hand was shaking uncontrollably

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[mike_elliott]

On ‎11‎/‎25‎/‎2015 at 11:22 AM, PTK said:

This is wisdom and I couldn't have said it better myself!

A subtle point which neither Aspen nor Garmin, for that matter, talk about and don't publish is processor speed! As it was explained to me resolution is meaningless if its not supported by processor speed. The two go hand in hand.

Aspen lacks processor horsepower. This is why it appears choppy and not fluid smooth when compared to Garmin. Especially with SV Aspen's slower processor is heavily taxed. 

When was the last time Aspen upgraded the hardware?

 

Peter, please tell me just which of your planes you fly have either a Garmin Gxxx or an Aspen with SV to compare them to, or is this just a heavily biased opinion derived from hatred of anyone competing with the holy G. At least the SV on the Aspen I fly behind regularly doesn't have the issues you seem to have with your fantasy panel. I will give you I like the G1000 SV the best, but size does matter here.

[PTK]

2 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

Peter, please tell me just which of your planes you fly have either a Garmin Gxxx or an Aspen with SV to compare them to, or is this just a heavily biased opinion derived from hatred of anyone competing with the holy G. At least the SV on the Aspen I fly behind regularly doesn't have the issues you seem to have with your fantasy panel. I will give you I like the G1000 SV the best, but size does matter here.

Mike, since by your own admission hardware matters and size does matter, please answer my question if you can:

When was the last time Aspen updated their hardware? 

[Marauder]

2 hours ago, mike_elliott said: Peter, please tell me just which of your planes you fly have either a Garmin Gxxx or an Aspen with SV to compare them to, or is this just a heavily biased opinion derived from hatred of anyone competing with the holy G. At least the SV on the Aspen I fly behind regularly doesn't have the issues you seem to have with your fantasy panel. I will give you I like the G1000 SV the best, but size does matter here.

Mike, since by your own admission hardware matters and size does matter, please answer my question if you can:

When was the last time Aspen updated their hardware? 

Like all things meant to last through the ages, you don't need to mess with perfection.

When did Rembrandt, Picasso, Van Gogh or any of the other masters "update" their work of art?

Come to the 47N tomorrow and I will let you admire mine.

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[steingar]

Buy a new airplane.  Not only will you spend a boatload more money, but you'll loose more to depreciation than the guy spent to upgrade his older airplane.  The stuff's' expensive.