carqwik Posted July 21, 2015 Report Posted July 21, 2015 Although I'm not at Oshkosh, I see that BK announced a new electronic AI that replaces the KI-256 attitude indicator (along with other KI-25x gyro based AI's). According the website, it also fully integrates with the BK autopilots....so we still get the FD command bar as well (assuming you have the KFC a/p). http://www.bendixking.com/V4/KI-300 For the Bravo owners, assuming BK can get this certified, is it safe to assume that if we put one in the Bravo, we could also eliminate the entire vacuum system as well? That would be huge... Can anyone at Oshkosh find out if this would be the case? 1 Quote
Av8 Posted July 21, 2015 Report Posted July 21, 2015 This is interesting. last time my AI went out I did some research on Aspen vs. steam gauges and one of the appeals was the ability to eliminate the vacuum system in my J. I would feel much more comfortable spending the $$ on this unit rather than $2-3k every 3-4 years swapping out aging/rebuilt gyro driven equipment. One concern from the Aspen was being told that I had to have a backup AI panel mounted - if this was a true primary replacement, could be a true upgrade opportunity for the aging 6-pack - particularly in our older plans that simply cannot justify putting in something like a G500... Hope anyone at Oshkosh will post updates/info as you learn more detail 1 Quote
gsengle Posted July 21, 2015 Report Posted July 21, 2015 Ha! You beat me to it - I was just about to post this. I had mine overhauled a couple of years back, but would have put this in had it been available... The overhaul was over 2k, so I would have strongly considered this... I wonder if there will be an HSI model next... Quote
carusoam Posted July 21, 2015 Report Posted July 21, 2015 That is so hot-off-the-press... Nobody proof read it for spelling errors. Makes it a challenging read... Not their first time either. The KSN brochure I got had a WASS GPS. Don't rush the marketing materials. It sends the wrong message. Keep in mind when we saw the KSN live, it had similar challenges.... It was close, just not done yet... The KI 300 looks more like a back-up device compared to other digital BKs... http://www.bendixking.com/Products/Autopilots-Indicators/Autopilots/KFC-325 Best regards, -a- Quote
carqwik Posted July 21, 2015 Author Report Posted July 21, 2015 Don't throw cold water on hopes as to what this may mean...solid state AHRS, removal of vacuum system, some weight loss, and some tiny increase in useful horsepower (no need to turn the vacuum pump), and no more overhauls of one of the two gyro systems....just sayin'.... I'd definitely be a buyer...and it would be even better if BK came out with a unit that replaced both the AI and HSI with solid state electronics... 1 Quote
gsengle Posted July 21, 2015 Report Posted July 21, 2015 For me it begs a couple of questions - wouldn't replacing the AI and HSI basically be a basic Aspen? And if so, why cant Aspen get approval as a primary flight instrument, like this one purports to be? Finally, is there an approved way to remove the vacuum system? What do you do with the backup vacuum pump switch, annunciator, etc. - just curious how this works. g Quote
carusoam Posted July 21, 2015 Report Posted July 21, 2015 g, Craig lead the vacuum removal charge in his J using a few Aspens, battery back up and other things... Don K may have done it with the new g-Suite in his Bravo. (?) Won't be a low cost alternative. Data presentation is spectacular. Somebody has to go first with BK in their Mooney. I lost the pioneering spirit with age. I've become a follower... Quote
gsengle Posted July 21, 2015 Report Posted July 21, 2015 I wonder if being in an Ovation, already having 2 batteries and two alternators, plus having back-up batteries in the instruments themselves would be sufficient. Then you just pull out the pumps? Field approval? g Quote
carusoam Posted July 21, 2015 Report Posted July 21, 2015 Probably with that, good to go. The independent resources was key, not the two different source types. I am still just a PP, not a mechanic or instrument guy.... Best regards, -a- Quote
PTK Posted July 21, 2015 Report Posted July 21, 2015 Wow! This is HUGE!! Exactly what's been missing. Nothing more and nothing less!! Quote
Marauder Posted July 21, 2015 Report Posted July 21, 2015 Wow! This is HUGE!! Exactly what's been missing. Nothing more and nothing less!! Nothing like a Swiss watch, huh Peter?! Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote
PTK Posted July 21, 2015 Report Posted July 21, 2015 Nothing like a Swiss watch, huh Peter?! Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Nothing! Quote
Alan Fox Posted July 21, 2015 Report Posted July 21, 2015 I saw it , it is 7 K , forgot to ask about certification.... Quote
N601RX Posted July 21, 2015 Report Posted July 21, 2015 I wonder if being in an Ovation, already having 2 batteries and two alternators, plus having back-up batteries in the instruments themselves would be sufficient. Then you just pull out the pumps? Field approval? g There is a foot note on the type certificate that details the conditions the pump may be removed. Quote
gsengle Posted July 21, 2015 Report Posted July 21, 2015 Yes I saw they had amended the type certificate for it on another thread Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote
PTK Posted July 22, 2015 Report Posted July 22, 2015 The typical application replacing the KI 256, as in my KFC 150 for example, has an MSRP of 6K. It will probably sell for less than that. Not bad! Not bad at all! http://www.flyingmag.com/avionics-gear/instrumentaccessories/ki-300-solid-state-adi-bendixking Remove and replace vacuum pump with a standby alternator and voila! An all electric airplane for well under 10K! Quote
Marauder Posted July 22, 2015 Report Posted July 22, 2015 http://www.flyingmag.com/avionics-gear/instrumentaccessories/ki-300-solid-state-adi-bendixking What we going to do if they retire the Swiss watch HSI? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote
gsengle Posted July 22, 2015 Report Posted July 22, 2015 End of an era Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 1 Quote
FlyDave Posted July 24, 2015 Report Posted July 24, 2015 My 1989 Bravo has vacuum operated speed brakes, so I can't remove the vacuum system. If you're flying an older Bravo, make sure you don't have this dependency on the vacuum system before removing it. I do think that the Aspen would be a better solution than this BK unit but the Aspen cannot replace the KI-297 altitude pre-select or the altimeter that goes along with it. After talking to Aspen at Oshkosh this week I'm probably going to bite the bullet and go with a G500 just to be rid of these gyro based instruments that cost multiple AMU's to fix every couple of years. I'll still have the vacuum system for speedbrakes but I won't (that is my hope....) be repairing gyros every 3-4 years. Quote
carusoam Posted July 25, 2015 Report Posted July 25, 2015 What would be involved to swap to electric brakes? Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
FlyDave Posted July 25, 2015 Report Posted July 25, 2015 Not sure Aaron. But I'm sure it's and entire new system (10 AMU's?) Quote
aviatoreb Posted July 25, 2015 Report Posted July 25, 2015 What would be involved to swap to electric brakes? Best regards, -a- Yeah me too - my HSI, attitude indicator and speed brakes are the only reason in my airplane that I maintain a vaccum with backup electric vacuum. If king comes up with an electronic drop in hsi as well (I am SURE they will soon) then that would leave just the speed brakes - at that point, it would pay to switch. I wonder how much. Quote
mike_elliott Posted July 25, 2015 Report Posted July 25, 2015 Although I'm not at Oshkosh, I see that BK announced a new electronic AI that replaces the KI-256 attitude indicator (along with other KI-25x gyro based AI's). According the website, it also fully integrates with the BK autopilots....so we still get the FD command bar as well (assuming you have the KFC a/p). http://www.bendixking.com/V4/KI-300 For the Bravo owners, assuming BK can get this certified, is it safe to assume that if we put one in the Bravo, we could also eliminate the entire vacuum system as well? That would be huge... Can anyone at Oshkosh find out if this would be the case? at $6000, it might face some price point resistance when there is the Aspen option for a few sheckles more, that gives you so much more. And to keep PTK happy, there is the G500 option for only 4 times the price, but you have to keep your vaccum system. Quote
PTK Posted July 26, 2015 Report Posted July 26, 2015 at $6000, it might face some price point resistance when there is the Aspen option for a few sheckles more, that gives you so much more. And to keep PTK happy, there is the G500 option for only 4 times the price, but you have to keep your vaccum system.Mike, I'm not sure that's going to be the case. Don't forget that the Aspen needs a second backup AI which invariably adds to the cost. As an example the Lifesaver will add another 4 grand on top of the aspen. The KI300 does not require a backup AI. Probably because it's DO-178B criticality level B. (Aspen is only level C.) MSRP is 6 grand and street will probably be lower. And it's a direct replacement of the venerable KI25x. No extra boxes to worry about. I think it's a no brainer! It is exactly what's been missing all along! Quote
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