Eraaen Posted April 23, 2015 Report Posted April 23, 2015 Just out of shop. I would have bet money that the left main was hanging down a bit. My baby crabs to the left in cruise. I'm about an 1/4 to an 1/8 bubble off. In order to fly true I need to rest my foot on the right rudder. That gets old after a while. I have a 1980 K model. there is no rudder trim. While in the shop we checked all rigging, all within specs. We did bring up the left aileron just a smidge to get it closer to the right. No impact Is there an adjustment for rudder I/we cant find?
aviatoreb Posted April 23, 2015 Report Posted April 23, 2015 I bet that slows you down a bit. I don't think rigging a rocket is different than rigging any other Mooney. I don't know how to rig a plane - but I know who does.... I had my rocket rigged after I already owned it for a few years... by Dorn at Weber aircraft. I highly recommend. I picked up a few knots. First thing he does before any test flight is to true your instruments - to make sure that the instrument panel is perfectly flat (the panel can sag over the years a little bit as it is on mounts). That way they are not chasing a faulty reading that the ball is out of alignment. 1
kmyfm20s Posted April 23, 2015 Report Posted April 23, 2015 If you find someone that knows what their doing you can bend the trailing edge of your rudder for the desired trim. With out me thinking to hard the bends are a little opposite of what you would initially think IIRC. Someone else can probably help explain better.
Eraaen Posted April 23, 2015 Author Report Posted April 23, 2015 If I'm to believe the numbers, I'm down 5-8 knots across the spectrum. I hadn't thought about dash.. But, in this case: when I get tired and let it crab the slaved HSI is off the Mag Compass and the 530 by a few degrees.. Step on it and they all line up.
BillC Posted April 23, 2015 Report Posted April 23, 2015 There is a spring interconnect in the belly that connects the aileron and rudder. Have you checked to see if it is attached and unbroken? PLEASE DO NOT BEND THE RUDDER TRAILING EDGE.
kmyfm20s Posted April 23, 2015 Report Posted April 23, 2015 I would check to make sure some one hasn't already put a bend in the trailing edge. It is very slight and has a big affect. BillC, after he eliminates all the other possibilities and the trim issue still persist what do you recommend? With those of us with rudder trim its easy we adjust inside the cabin and for those that don't, what? Most Mooney's I have seen have trailing edges with some bends in them.
RocketAviator Posted April 23, 2015 Report Posted April 23, 2015 The rudder joining tab is slightly be bent BY a knowledgeable person. Don Maxwell did my Rocket in less than 2 Min... I had exactly the same issue Don assured me after checking my rigging by sight it was correct, simply bent the joining seam about 3/4 up. Explained it is important that it be bent so the joint does not separate. If your close to Don I suggest you take it to him. 1
aviatoreb Posted April 23, 2015 Report Posted April 23, 2015 The rudder joining tab is slightly be bent BY a knowledgeable person. Don Maxwell did my Rocket in less than 2 Min... I had exactly the same issue Don assured me after checking my rigging by sight it was correct, simply bent the joining seam about 3/4 up. Explained it is important that it be bent so the joint does not separate. If your close to Don I suggest you take it to him. Huh? Would you please take a picture.
BillC Posted April 24, 2015 Report Posted April 24, 2015 I would check to make sure some one hasn't already put a bend in the trailing edge. It is very slight and has a big affect. BillC, after he eliminates all the other possibilities and the trim issue still persist what do you recommend? With those of us with rudder trim its easy we adjust inside the cabin and for those that don't, what? Most Mooney's I have seen have trailing edges with some bends in them. Exactly. First he needs to eliminate all other possibilities. Being a Rocket, I'm sure he is right on the edge of proper rudder adjustment. Doesn't the M20K still have a Heim bearing rudder adjustment ?
Eraaen Posted April 24, 2015 Author Report Posted April 24, 2015 Re: interconnect spring in the belly.. Not a clue. I'll pull open the manual and see if I can't figure out how to check that. I tried looking up Weber Aircraft and got a couple of hits.. Pennsylvania and Texas. Wear is Don? I'm in Indianapolis.
carusoam Posted April 24, 2015 Report Posted April 24, 2015 Don Maxwell is in KGGG (Texas) Weber is close to NJ near the East Texas VOR. ETX? http://www.henryweberaircraft.com Best regards, -a-
Guest Posted April 24, 2015 Report Posted April 24, 2015 Mooney says to bend the trailing edge of ailerons and the rudder with a 3" flat Vice grip plier. The problem with this is it is very easy to make a waves in the trailing edge. After eliminating a drooping gear and having checked all flight control rigging if you determine that you must bend a trailing edge I suggest the following. Clamp two 1X2" pine boards to the trailing edge skin joint and bend the entire edge a very small amount. I've done this many times, you end up with no waves and no discernible bend in the skin. Clarence
Hank Posted April 24, 2015 Report Posted April 24, 2015 Don Maxwell is in KGGG (Texas) Weber is close to NJ near the East Texas VOR. ETX? http://www.henryweberaircraft.com Best regards, -a- Leaving Allentown, PA one evening to beat incoming winter weather, my clearance home to WV started at the East Texas VOR. They didn't give me the code, had to find it on the chart to enter into the G430. Tower then complained about taking too long; I told them I was looking for the VOR 1500nm from where it should be. It's a couple inches east or southeast and my course was west, it was dark and I was unfamiliar. Weber is probably closer to Indy, as Maxwell is somewhere east of Dallas. 1
Nemesis Posted April 24, 2015 Report Posted April 24, 2015 I was very happy with the way my K model flew for the first 2 years. No complaints. I changed to a different A&P / IA for my 3rd annual just so a 2nd pair of trained eyes could take a look, Kerry McIntyre in Evanston WY suggested that we carefully check the rigging. I made the small changes to the elevators and rudder and Kerry made the changes to the ailerons and flaps. Well, I was happy with how it flew before and I was ecstatic with how it flew after. In smooth air, it will fly for more than 40 seconds hands off and usually for more than a minute. I only have to breathe on the controls to be straight and level. To answer your question more directly, I also showed the turn coordinator ball to be in a small skid before and centered after the rigging. I did make a change by 1 or 1-1/2 or 2 revolutions of the rudder actuator arm connecting hardware. Dave
carusoam Posted April 24, 2015 Report Posted April 24, 2015 When things are well balanced in a Mooney... The level of fuel in each tank will cause some challenges. The weight of the pilot vs. the co pilot will be evident... My 40 year old C was that balanced. Used to fly by moving the seat of my pants... Right course corrections are easier than left course corrections. There is no wall to confine your moving pants... The R has electric rudder trim to lift the heavier fuel tank... Hope this gives some ideas... Best regards, -a-
Piloto Posted April 25, 2015 Report Posted April 25, 2015 On most Mooneys you need to press right rudder to get the ball centered. However once above 140Kts IAS the ball centers. You can adjust the rudder rigging by adjusting the rudder rod end at the tail as shown on the picture. Try two turns CW for first try. Check ball centering at 140kts IAS José
Eraaen Posted April 28, 2015 Author Report Posted April 28, 2015 Jose, I'm pretty sure that only adjusts rudder to center with pedals and front wheel. Shouldn't effect "trim" in flight. Guys, the former owner gave me a copy of a M20k Service and Maint. Manual. It is very large. I dug into it yesterday. It does have a section (see scan) retarding trimming. After all other surfaces have been balanced, it does say to bend the trailing edge. Actually says the same thing about the ailerons. I'm just too afraid to attempt this by myself. So, if I'm crabbing to the left and need right rudder. Would the trailing edge need to be deflected to the right or left?? I'm thinking to the left in order to force the rudder to the right.. I'm not an aerospace engineer. Scan.pdf
Marauder Posted April 28, 2015 Report Posted April 28, 2015 Jose, I'm pretty sure that only adjusts rudder to center with pedals and front wheel. Shouldn't effect "trim" in flight. Guys, the former owner gave me a copy of a M20k Service and Maint. Manual. It is very large. I dug into it yesterday. It does have a section (see scan) retarding trimming. After all other surfaces have been balanced, it does say to bend the trailing edge. Actually says the same thing about the ailerons. I'm just too afraid to attempt this by myself. So, if I'm crabbing to the left and need right rudder. Would the trailing edge need to be deflected to the right or left?? I'm thinking to the left in order to force the rudder to the right.. I'm not an aerospace engineer. I have a very small bend on my rudder. Never noticed it until Sunday when I remembered to look for it based on this thread. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
N201MKTurbo Posted April 28, 2015 Report Posted April 28, 2015 Best tool for bending the trailing edge: http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=malco+hand+seamers&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=31434516765&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15517824713511364631&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=t&ref=pd_sl_2ahs62g96k_b
Guest Posted April 28, 2015 Report Posted April 28, 2015 Jose, I'm pretty sure that only adjusts rudder to center with pedals and front wheel. Shouldn't effect "trim" in flight. Guys, the former owner gave me a copy of a M20k Service and Maint. Manual. It is very large. I dug into it yesterday. It does have a section (see scan) retarding trimming. After all other surfaces have been balanced, it does say to bend the trailing edge. Actually says the same thing about the ailerons. I'm just too afraid to attempt this by myself. So, if I'm crabbing to the left and need right rudder. Would the trailing edge need to be deflected to the right or left?? I'm thinking to the left in order to force the rudder to the right.. I'm not an aerospace engineer. In my experience adjusting the aft rudder rod end will not effect trim, it will merely off set the rudder pedals. Stand behind the airplane and envision what you had to do in flight with your feet to centre the ball. If you needed right rudder you would need to bend the trailing edge to the left to input right rudder. I do this with 2 pieces of 1X2 about 4 feet long clamped to the trailing edge where the skins are riveted together. Bent over a long area you will need to bend a very small amount. Duck bill seaming pliers tend to make the trailing edge wavy. Clarence
Andy95W Posted April 29, 2015 Report Posted April 29, 2015 In my experience adjusting the aft rudder rod end will not effect trim, it will merely off set the rudder pedals. Clarence +1. My experience as well. Suppose you could adjust the rudder rod end so much it starts to move the ailerons through the rudder/aileron interconnect spring. That could very well qualify as the dumbest way to mis-rig a Mooney.
Piloto Posted April 29, 2015 Report Posted April 29, 2015 Adjusting the rod end worked for me. No need to bend surfaces. José
Piloto Posted May 21, 2015 Report Posted May 21, 2015 +1. My experience as well. Suppose you could adjust the rudder rod end so much it starts to move the ailerons through the rudder/aileron interconnect spring. That could very well qualify as the dumbest way to mis-rig a Mooney. It is supposed to work the other way around. Moving the ailerons (try it on jacks) moves the rudder but moving the rudder does little on the ailerons. The rudder mechanism has some inherent resistance that you can play with. If the ball is a little bit off center over press on the rudder pedal and release the pressure slowly. In most cases this will bring the ball back to center without pressure on the pedals. A tight floor carpet around the pedals can help on this. BTW when you bend a surface you have the added drag of not only the surface deflection but also that of the surface bend. José
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