Opinion on this 252

[Mark89114]

I have been looking for awhile and saw this one come up.

 

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20K-252TSE/1986-MOONEY-M20K-252TSE/1327087.htm

 

 

My opinon:

Pluses:

- low time engine

- relatively low time airframe

- one modern avionics GTN 750

 

Minuses: 

- looks like original paint and interior

- only one modern box upgrade

- specs don't list any uplink, data, traffic info, which seems odd, spend bunch of money on 750

 

This one is close for me to look at so I did, didn't look bad, pictures are representative.

 

Price is reasonable, obviously that is their starting price, which should be high. 

 

Looking for some opinions, any purchase anywhere depends on me getting a piece of real estate sold,

which should "be closing any day now....."

 

Look forward to your feedback.

 

Thanks,

Mark

 

 

[aerobat95]

Wow with full fuel you only get 434 lbs of people and baggage.  Really just a two seater with full fuel.  What does one of these burn per hour? Cruise at?  What was the asking price?  I did not see it.

[FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC]

Needs

 

paint: $10K

refurbished Aero Comfort Interior: 10K (add says leather seats...those seats dont look leather to me)

Encore Conversion to get the UL right: 15K

 

only averaged 25hrs of flying for the past 8 yrs? (not good...BEWARE of internal corrosion)

 

...and I'm assuming since the price isnt listed they want way too much for it

[KSMooniac]

I don't see the price either.  Looks like a reasonable plane, but the low usage would bother me.  I'd rather not pay for someone else's paint and interior upgrades since many aren't what *I* want, and that is a place where you can DIY a lot and save money, or spec it out exactly how you want it.  

The ADS-B/traffic/Wx arena is changing rapidly, so waiting to see what shakes out could pay off with better and/or lower-cost options, so I don't think that is a negative.

 

the Encore conversion would definitely help useful load, and I've seen other 252s with even lower UL.

[FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC]

I recently sold my 231 and I’m also currently “looking” at 252’s.  Here is my wish list…it’s simple…

• low TT, NDH, and corrosion free airframe
• complete log books
• run out engine
• original paint
• original interior
• original avionics

MOST IMPORTANT: a reasonable price representative of the aforementioned.  There seems to be plenty of aircraft on the market similar to what I described; however, the list prices are astronomical.  When you combine the asking price + what you would have to pay to bring the plane up to 21^st century standards you would be way upside down with regards to its value.  These planes went w/o upgrades of any kind over a period of 25+ years yet the owners seem to still want top dollar.  I just don’t understand it.

 

I sold my 201 in 24hrs. I sold my 231 within 3 months of having it listed.  People wonder why it’s taking years to sell their plane. The answer is because those folks are not serious about selling and in a lot of cases seem to be emotionally and/or financially attached to a depreciable item which is simply not worth what they believe it to be.

[Mark89114]

Thanks for everybody's input, a lot of good things.

The one that escaped my thinking is the low annual hours on the engine. 

 

I should have put the asking price on there, it is $149,500.  As I said it seems like a reasonable asking price to begin a negotiation.

 

Regarding the UL issue, I saw one with long range tanks (106 gallons) leaving a useful of 175, which means I couldn't go......

I thought I saw the Encore upgrade was only around $5,000, not $15K as someone else posted.

 

231-Flyer, I don't think anybody truly values aviation correctly.  There is no way you aren't upside the minute you buy an airplane, your list of items is going to cost $120K,  ($45K rebuilt engine, $50K new avionics, new P&I, $25K) unless you want to fly an old airplane.  Someone would have to give you the airplane, would you give your airplane away?   

 

I just put this on here to get my brain thinking harder.

[KSMooniac]

$150k seems way too strong for that plane IMO, but perhaps the market is rebounding more than I realize.  Search up Parker's posts about his 252-->Encore conversion, now owned by IndyTim here.  It is closer to 5K IIRC to do the conversion.  

 

Another problem of low usage is with those expensive gyros in the King system... they don't like to sit either, and might cry out for some attention or replacement once the plane starts flying again.  Thus you might want to pencil-in an Aspen or G500 or overhauls in the 1st year budget.  

 

Still worth checking out... if it is a no-damage/no-corrosion airframe, it is certainly worthy of upgrades and love from a new owner.  

[KSMooniac]

One more thought... at that price range you can get a nice Rocket conversion too.    

[kortopates]

Looks like a nice clean 252, just without any upgrades except for the single big one on the GTN750. Personally though I'd prefer a Flight Director (KPC-150) and Dual Alternators as must have's on my list.

Check out Jimmy Garrison's latest article on the pricing the K's as well as Vref and go from there.

But you can't even begin to buy the Encore conversion parts for $5K!! Spindles alone are $3K then add 2 sets of gear doors (Inboard and Mids) before you even start with the brake parts ....

[Z W]

Don't be scared of the useful load.  That 78 gallons of fuel at a 12 GPH (high speed cruise) setting will take you 6.5 hours of flight time at about 170 knots.  In reality, you'll fly with half tanks most of the time, in my experience.  40-50 gallons is the sweet spot for fuel in a 252.  3.5 hours plus reserve, with 3 adults on board.

 

Double-check the useful load math.  My plane has the 105 gallon extended tanks and 875 useful load, which is one of the lowest useful loads I've seen.  With the tanks full, it's still 266 lbs of people and baggage.  Works for me and my bags.  And that's about 9 hours of fuel...

 

It looks like a very capable well-equipped aircraft.  The price might be a little optimistic.  But you can't blame him for trying.

 

Before you plan to do paint and interior, consider the downtime associated with it.  Plan on a month for each.  Don't believe the shops when they tell you otherwise.  Consider logistics of getting it to and from the shops.  You'll be pleasantly surprised if I'm wrong about how long it takes.

 

If I were buying right now, I would take a hard look at Rocket conversions.  I think they are a better value than the 252's.  They are cheaper, climb better, and go faster.  That's if you are comfortable with the stigma of a "mod" plane.  Just my opinion.

[FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC]

...."There is no way you aren't upside down the minute you buy an airplane"

 

Dude don’t tell that to the guy selling the 252 if you’re serious about buying it. He will see you coming from a mile away and take you to the cleaners. I've bought (and sold) two Mooney’s now and here is what I figured out... If someone has to suffer the fate of being upside down on an aircraft I would rather it be the "seller" when I'm the buyer.

 

From the perspective of a recent seller (me) I can tell you it's a buyers’ market. You hold the cards and are always better positioned than a seller in this market. Use that to your advantage and know ahead of time what upgrades are going to cost you. It will save you money in the long run. For example 5K for an Encore conversion...really? If you took that plane to a reputable MSC for the conversion I guarantee they would find 5K in squawks before they even started talking about the conversion price.

 

Unless you don’t care about money try to find a plane that already has as much of what you want and need already installed. That 252 needs paint/interior work among other things and the asking price is not representative of those needs. Oh and when that "low time" engine takes a shit because it hasn’t been run for 8 yrs. you’re going to wish you factored that expense into the current valuation of the aircraft as well...just sayin.

 

..."Someone would have to give you the airplane, would you give your airplane away?"

 

No I would not give it away but I would not try to sell or even list that 252 for 150K if I owned it.

 

Good Luck! it sounds like you might need it

[chrisk]

I think I would be tempted to go with something like this 231 http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20K-231/1980-MOONEY-M20K-231/1331813.htm  -And yes it has a damage history.  You could overhaul the engine and add some avionics for less than the 252 mentioned, since it is half the price.  And there are plenty of nice rockets for less.

[FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC]

I think I would be tempted to go with something like this 231 http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20K-231/1980-MOONEY-M20K-231/1331813.htm  -And yes it has a damage history.  You could overhaul the engine and add some avionics for less than the 252 mentioned, since it is half the price.  And there are plenty of nice rockets for less.

+1 agreed

[Parker_Woodruff]

Search up Parker's posts about his 252-->Encore conversion, now owned by IndyTim here. It is closer to 5K IIRC to do the conversion.

No, it was into the low teens $ when I did mine and I doubt Mooney parts have gotten cheaper. :-/

[KSMooniac]

No, it was into the low teens $ when I did mine and I doubt Mooney parts have gotten cheaper. :-/

 

My bad!  I thought it was a lot more reasonable, but +10 hp and +230 lbs is still pretty good bang-for-the-buck IMO.