Manual Speed Breaks

[chrisk]

I'm just wondering how many others have Precise Flight manual speed breaks.   They are activated by a lever between the front seats, next to the trim wheel.  They seem to be a first for every pilot that rides in my plane.  Could I have the only 231 with them?  --Doesn't seem likely.

[Bob_Belville]

I have them in my '66E. They were one of many mods a PO did in 1997. Work flawlessly though I probably use them one flight in 20. My old E has a gear speed of 104k and a flap speed of 87k so when circumstances have you close in and high the brakes are very nice to have.

[Seth]

I had the manual speed brakes in my 1967 F model - again, due to the lower gear and flap speed, it was nice for slam dunk descents or keeping up speed during an approach into Class B airports when you've got a 757 on your tail using the same runway. 

 

Speed brakes would have been nice in the Missile, but as long as you plan ahead, you can slow down enough to get to gear speed.

 

-Seth

[VetRepp]

I had them on my 231 - (My Current plane  - Ovation 2 has electric). The manual speedbrakes were nice because you could partially deploy them to  'fine tune' the Engine and VSI descent rate numbers on ILS approaches. 

[smccray]

I had the manual speed brakes in my 1967 F model - again, due to the lower gear and flap speed, it was nice for slam dunk descents or keeping up speed during an approach into Class B airports when you've got a 757 on your tail using the same runway. 

 

Speed brakes would have been nice in the Missile, but as long as you plan ahead, you can slow down enough to get to gear speed.

 

-Seth

 

What's your gear speed?  My '87 J has a 140 kias gear speed limitation.  When I was shopping for a plane I was thinking I wanted all the bells and whistles but I didn't find speed breaks on the plane I ended up buying.  Now, with a couple hundred hours in type, they're not necessary.  If I had a 104 kias I would want speed brakes, but in the J I don't see the need.  I'd agree with a nice to have as another tool in the bag, but far from necessary in the J.  Granted you're moving a little faster in the missile which might make it a little nicer to cruise higher and increase the descent rate while keeping the power in. 

[Hank]

Even in my C at just 500 fpm, I'm typically indicating 170 mph / 148 KIAS or more. Level off for a mile or two,retard throttle to ~16" and I'm approaching flap speed of 125 mph / 108 KIAS. Once they're at Takeoff, I'm below Vg. You folks with 140 KIAS gear speed should have less trouble, I would think.

[drake15d]

What's your gear speed?  My '87 J has a 140 kias gear speed limitation.  When I was shopping for a plane I was thinking I wanted all the bells and whistles but I didn't find speed breaks on the plane I ended up buying.  Now, with a couple hundred hours in type, they're not necessary.  If I had a 104 kias I would want speed brakes, but in the J I don't see the need.  I'd agree with a nice to have as another tool in the bag, but far from necessary in the J.  Granted you're moving a little faster in the missile which might make it a little nicer to cruise higher and increase the descent rate while keeping the power in. 

 

Your gear extension speed is 140? I have an '83 J and mine is 130.

[smccray]

Your gear extension speed is 140? I have an '83 J and mine is 130.

 

140 indicated extension, 160 indicated while extended.

 

I generally use a 130 kias speed just to give myself a little margin.  At 130 kias I wouldn't be looking for speed breaks.  I'm not sure where I would start wanting speed breaks as I don't generally wait long after I hit 130 kias to extend the gear.

[ArtVandelay]

140 indicated extension, 160 indicated while extended.

 

I generally use a 130 kias speed just to give myself a little margin.  At 130 kias I wouldn't be looking for speed breaks.  I'm not sure where I would start wanting speed breaks as I don't generally wait long after I hit 130 kias to extend the gear.

I have handbook for M20J dated 1997, it gives Vle of 132 KIAS

[smccray]

I have handbook for M20J dated 1997, it gives Vle of 132 KIAS

 

The 205 shares the same gear system with the 252, not the 201.  I have a higher gear speed.  I had to check- Vle is 165 kias, not 160 kias.  That's a really nice benefit to the 205 over other iterations of the J model.

 

Edited to add: I also have 15 and 30 degree flap setting rather than a flap up/down switch which I understand is an upgrade from the earlier J models.

[Marauder]

All of you -- stop your whining my gear VLe and VLo are 104 KIAS. And I ain't got no speed brakes (remember I'm a cheap bast$&d). Talking about planning required!

[smccray]

All of you -- stop your whining my gear VLe and VLo are 104 KIAS. And I ain't got no speed brakes (remember I'm a cheap bast$&d). Talking about planning required!

 

I can solve your problem!!!! My 205 is going up for sale soon...

[Marauder]

I can solve your problem!!!! My 205 is going up for sale soon...

Thanks but I'm going to win the lottery and buy that Pilatus I have my eye on.

Thread creep -- are you the guy with the O2 side business? If so, I need to connect up with you.

[smccray]

Thanks but I'm going to win the lottery and buy that Pilatus I have my eye on.

Thread creep -- are you the guy with the O2 side business? If so, I need to connect up with you.

 

I shut it down.  Send me a PM with specifics and I'll share whatever knowledge I have with you. 

[Marauder]

I shut it down. Send me a PM with specifics and I'll share whatever knowledge I have with you.

Will do, thanks.

[ArtVandelay]

The 205 shares the same gear system with the 252, not the 201.  I have a higher gear speed.  I had to check- Vle is 165 kias, not 160 kias.  That's a really nice benefit to the 205 over other iterations of the J model.

 

Edited to add: I also have 15 and 30 degree flap setting rather than a flap up/down switch which I understand is an upgrade from the earlier J models.

Interesting, did they change the actually gear system, or did they change the doors (which I think would be the weak link)?

[smccray]

Interesting, did they change the actually gear system, or did they change the doors (which I think would be the weak link)?

 

Fair Question- I don't have a clue.

 

I've heard that the 205 has inner gear doors which is unique to the 205.  Again, I've heard that the MSE does not have the the inner gear doors.  That leads me to the conclusion that the gear setup for the 205 is different than any of the other J models.  I've also been told that the only thing we as pilots are worried about with gear speeds is the doors, not the gear itself.  Of course, if the doors get messed up in transit it could keep the gear from fully extending.  I do know that if I were in trouble and I needed to slow down, I wouldn't hesitate to extend the gear at 170+ kias and deal with bent metal on the ground.  I'm sure there's someone around here that can speak with some level of authority on both the 205 gear and the gear speed because that's certainly not me.  Scott? Byron? Anyone?

[DaV8or]

Back to the original OP, I once rode in a vintage F (not sure what year, but it was either '67 or '68) and it had the manual speed brakes. Super slick and I have no feakin' idea why they bothered to add electric motors. My only guess is, it seems that people with money really like to push buttons and hear a whirring sound of motors doing work. If someone were to have a complete used manual system and the STC is transferable, I would be pretty interested in pursuing that. I have the low gear speed too and it would be helpful at times. Today coming back from my annual would have been one of those times.

 

We had a bit of low level convection and I ended up on final being lifted, power idle, full flaps, gear and a slip, made it to the numbers OK but was still doing 100mph! Had to do a go around. It would have been sweet to pull to idle, trim to 72mph, pop those babies and make the numbers. Oh well. There seems to be no end to the ways one might want to mod a Mooney.

[drake15d]

Fair Question- I don't have a clue.

 

I've heard that the 205 has inner gear doors which is unique to the 205.  Again, I've heard that the MSE does not have the the inner gear doors.  That leads me to the conclusion that the gear setup for the 205 is different than any of the other J models.  I've also been told that the only thing we as pilots are worried about with gear speeds is the doors, not the gear itself.  Of course, if the doors get messed up in transit it could keep the gear from fully extending.  I do know that if I were in trouble and I needed to slow down, I wouldn't hesitate to extend the gear at 170+ kias and deal with bent metal on the ground.  I'm sure there's someone around here that can speak with some level of authority on both the 205 gear and the gear speed because that's certainly not me.  Scott? Byron? Anyone?

 

I would agree with you on that. The gear itself is pretty robust, so I think it's the doors. In an emergency situation, anything goes that could produce a safe outcome. Better to walk away from a messed up bird than not walk away at all.

 

Side note, the lower inner gear door bracket just broke on my M20J 201. Old age just got to it. Luckily it was tied out on the ground and not in flight, so I still have the door. Thumbs up for pre-flights!

[Seth]

What's your gear speed?  My '87 J has a 140 kias gear speed limitation.  When I was shopping for a plane I was thinking I wanted all the bells and whistles but I didn't find speed breaks on the plane I ended up buying.  Now, with a couple hundred hours in type, they're not necessary.  If I had a 104 kias I would want speed brakes, but in the J I don't see the need.  I'd agree with a nice to have as another tool in the bag, but far from necessary in the J.  Granted you're moving a little faster in the missile which might make it a little nicer to cruise higher and increase the descent rate while keeping the power in. 

132 - And in a decent from up high in the Missile with 16" is still well above 132, especially if I have to go downhill at more than 500 fpm during a slam dunk type approach.

 

-Seth