Upgrading My 68C

[scottfromiowa]

Tom, I like how you used fantasization in a sentence...Pretty cool, even if you made it up

[urbanti]

Great thread!

Even if you don't anticipate flying in IMC, I would suggest working on your instrument rating, and getting the IFR certified GPS that will allow you to fly LPV approaches.

My rationale is that working on my IR has made me a much better pilot, and in the event of a WX-related emergency I have a lot more tools and situational awareness and savoir faire than I used to have.

Also, when planning on refurbishing your panel, look into compatibility with boxes that will give you traffic. Before I had traffic I had absolutely no idea how many airplanes were in my immediate vicinity, not making calls, doing random stuff.

best

Tim

[cliffy]

I agree with you that your mission may be different. I was only showing my rational for my missions in my Mooney. My GPS 155TSO IS a cetified IFR Approach GPS, only it's a non-precision approach unit not WAAS, I have a 430 WAAS in my Twin Comanche. I like WAAS approaches even better than ILS approaches. A good autopilot and a 430 WAAS may be all you need (unless you can't stay away from glass on the panel :-)

[ArtVandelay]

. I like WAAS approaches even better than ILS approaches. A good autopilot and a 430 WAAS may be all you need (unless you can't stay away from glass on the panel :-)

You'll need GPSS as well.

Why the preference for WAAS approaches over ILS?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Marauder]

You'll need GPSS as well.

Why the preference for WAAS approaches over ILS?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I agree on the GPSS, adds a whole new versatility.

His preference for WAAS approaches is probably the same as mine. I find the needle remains rock solid on an an LPV approach and you have the benefit of the waypoints built into the approach. Of course, you lose some height.

[Bob_Belville]

I agree on the GPSS, adds a whole new versatility.

His preference for WAAS approaches is probably the same as mine. I find the needle remains rock solid on an an LPV approach and you have the benefit of the waypoints built into the approach. Of course, you lose some height.

I don't, intentionally, fly when ceilings are near 200' anymore, but if you have the loc/gs pegged on NAV2 while the STEC/GPSS is flying the LPV why could you not continue to the ILS minimum based on the #2 radio? My A/P doesn't not have vertical lock on so following the profile or gs in manual anyway. Does being cleared for one approach prohibit flying the other?  

[LevelWing]

Great thread!

Even if you don't anticipate flying in IMC, I would suggest working on your instrument rating, and getting the IFR certified GPS that will allow you to fly LPV approaches.

My rationale is that working on my IR has made me a much better pilot, and in the event of a WX-related emergency I have a lot more tools and situational awareness and savoir faire than I used to have.

Also, when planning on refurbishing your panel, look into compatibility with boxes that will give you traffic. Before I had traffic I had absolutely no idea how many airplanes were in my immediate vicinity, not making calls, doing random stuff.

best

Tim

I'm going to start my IR in the near future and I'm looking forward to it. As for re-doing the panel, I'm not sure if I'm going to wait until I buy the new equipment and then re-do the panel or just re-do the panel now leaving space for where I want the new equipment to go. It still has that fake wood panel on it and I think it takes up extra space that it doesn't need to.

 

I agree with you that your mission may be different. I was only showing my rational for my missions in my Mooney. My GPS 155TSO IS a cetified IFR Approach GPS, only it's a non-precision approach unit not WAAS, I have a 430 WAAS in my Twin Comanche. I like WAAS approaches even better than ILS approaches. A good autopilot and a 430 WAAS may be all you need (unless you can't stay away from glass on the panel :-)

If I'm going to get a GPS I might as well get a WAAS one. It's just a matter of finding the right deal and having it installed. I'd really prefer to have the WAAS GPS before I get my IR but I can at least start the training with what I have now.

[Marauder]

I don't, intentionally, fly when ceilings are near 200' anymore, but if you have the loc/gs pegged on NAV2 while the STEC/GPSS is flying the LPV why could you not continue to the ILS minimum based on the #2 radio? My A/P doesn't not have vertical lock on so following the profile or gs in manual anyway. Does being cleared for one approach prohibit flying the other?

Bob - I have loaded the ILS into the Aspen PFD and will run the MFD in PFD mode with the GPS overlay on. The only thing I have encountered is that besides the decision altitude and possible other differences due to the TERPS requirements, they often look the same in profile view.

One set of approaches I am very familiar with are the ILS 29 and LPV 29 to KMQS. Take a gander at these two.

[Bob_Belville]

Bob - I have loaded the ILS into the Aspen PFD and will run the MFD in PFD mode with the GPS overlay on. The only thing I have encountered is that besides the decision altitude and possible other differences due to the TERPS requirements, they often look the same in profile view.

One set of approaches I am very familiar with are the ILS 29 and LPV 29 to KMQS. Take a gander at these two.

Interesting. Except for a small advantage, 19', the ILS offers little. Missed approach is different so ATC will be expecting you to fly missed as cleared. But the LOC/ILS requires RADAR so I'm thinking the RNAV is actually better on balance since situation awareness has to be much better watching a moving map and waypoint progress .

[LevelWing]

Look at LASAR's website, they have a 200HP Conversion STC. However this is only the STC and does not include the parts (despite the listing saying parts, hardware and STC). I'm guessing this would require a full engine replacement? If so, how much would that cost, on average? It's not likely worth it but one of the reasons I had wanted to upgrade to a newer plane originally was for a fuel injected engine.

[scottfromiowa]

You are correct, It is NOT likely worth it.

[Hank]

You are correct, It is NOT likely worth it.

 

Unless your engine is run out and you're about to do an overhaul anyway. What's the trade-in value of a ready-to-OH O-360 if purchasing a Factory Reman IO-360? I have no idea.

[LevelWing]

Since I started this thread I've begun my IR training and am enjoying it. I haven't upgraded anything yet (though I did purchase a Stratus II and it's been great to have) because I'm still working through what I want to upgrade. The other factor at play is that my engine is approaching 1400 hours and I think I'm getting to the point where if I'm going to sell, I should probably do it sooner rather than later before the price drops too much due to a run out engine. The issue is if I sell it now, or soon anyway, that I will be out of a plane for the duration of my IR training and my budget for a new plane would still only get me an E or F model and likely still with about the same level of avionics I have now. I'm likely going to keep the plane for the duration of my IR training since those hours likely won't affect the price too much.

[carusoam]

The price of planes is terribly unpredictable...

One thing for sure, the act of buying and selling planes is expensive...

Especially if you buy a plane that comes with a hidden issue that evades the PPI.

What keeps you from staying with the plane you have through it's eventual overhaul?

Everybody has a different opinion of the value of a plane with a new engine or with a mid-time engine or run-out engine. A buyer will say it is closer to run-out. A seller will claim it's just broken in...

Best regards,

-a-

[LevelWing]

I want something that is faster, fuel injected and has a little more room in it. I would likely feel more comfortable upgrading the newer plane knowing that I'll keep it longer.

[ryoder]

I'm at 2500 snew and am trying to decide if and when I overhaul the engine since it's running fine. I am also working in my imstrument rating and have the ability to shoot ILS, VOR, and NDB approaches. I think that is good enough to get my rating and to keep me safe in case I need to land in hard IFR since all the major airports have ILS or I hope they do. My iPad works great but I would like a panel mounted mini. Like you I want upgraded systems but I think that patience and restraint are in order as my airplane is old and is an expense not an investment.

[Bob_Belville]

I put this panel in a Mooney that is 2 years older than yours...

[LevelWing]

I'm at 2500 snew and am trying to decide if and when I overhaul the engine since it's running fine. I am also working in my imstrument rating and have the ability to shoot ILS, VOR, and NDB approaches. I think that is good enough to get my rating and to keep me safe in case I need to land in hard IFR since all the major airports have ILS or I hope they do. My iPad works great but I would like a panel mounted mini. Like you I want upgraded systems but I think that patience and restraint are in order as my airplane is old and is an expense not an investment.

I have the same IFR capability but still want to add an IFR WAAS GPS. I'm just not sure it's worth it to spend that kind of money on a plane that will need an overhauled engine in a few years. The same goes for any of the other improvements I'd like to make. I use the plane for traveling and that ability will expand once I get my IR, so I'd like to have the added capability.

I put this panel in a Mooney that is 2 years older than yours...

I've seen this photo several times and I'm impressed each time I see it. A great looking panel. You have an E model, correct?

[Bob_Belville]

I have the same IFR capability but still want to add an IFR WAAS GPS. I'm just not sure it's worth it to spend that kind of money on a plane that will need an overhauled engine in a few years. The same goes for any of the other improvements I'd like to make. I use the plane for traveling and that ability will expand once I get my IR, so I'd like to have the added capability.

I've seen this photo several times and I'm impressed each time I see it. A great looking panel. You have an E model, correct?

yes

[Bob_Belville]

While the engine and a modern panel are obviously the big ticket items, getting a plane in the shape you want it involves a lot of other systems. ISTM that once you get a plane "under control" it makes a lot of sense to keep it and deal with the big items. Unless your mission changes making the current model a problem, buying and selling is fraught with potential money pits.

[LevelWing]

While the engine and a modern panel are obviously the big ticket items, getting a plane in the shape you want it involves a lot of other systems. ISTM that once you get a plane "under control" it makes a lot of sense to keep it and deal with the big items. Unless your mission changes making the current model a problem, buying and selling is fraught with potential money pits.

The current plane and mission fit just fine; I'm looking ahead to future missions. There are no mechanical issues with the plane and it flies great. Like I said, knowing that I want to upgrade in the future makes me question whether or not it's worth it to upgrade anything now.

[Marauder]

The current plane and mission fit just fine; I'm looking ahead to future missions. There are no mechanical issues with the plane and it flies great. Like I said, knowing that I want to upgrade in the future makes me question whether or not it's worth it to upgrade anything now.

If there is even a remote chance of upgrading to a newer plane, I wouldn't drop a penny on the avionics other than to maintain what you have. You don't want to be dropping $40k on an airplane that you may be able to sell $50k even with the upgrades.

Bob, I and others are in the "keep her" mode with no intention of upgrading to another plane. That is when it makes sense to make these investments.

[triple8s]

"Marauder" If there is even a remote chance of upgrading to a newer plane, I wouldn't drop a penny on the avionics other than to maintain what you have. You don't want to be dropping $40k on an airplane that you may be able to sell $50k even with the upgrades.

Bob, I and others are in the "keep her" mode with no intention of upgrading to another plane. That is when it makes sense to make these investments.

I did it all wrong, I had a C which already had an ok panel but was starting my IFR training, some of the instruments were giving trouble so I bit the bullet and spent some money upgrading. I got the IFR training in a 172 then got my C model back with WAAS 430, an HSI, and a few other goodies, had a Dyon D1 and a 496 with XM, which ought to be plenty good enough to get by but I kept looking at the financial side and got into a position where trading made sense, to me anyhow. Looking back I might not do it over again but you only live once, and it hasn't put me in the poor house yet. The ovation is fun to fly I go 30 or 40 knots faster, it climbs faster, but a turbo prop lancair is 100 kts faster than me, climbs faster and higher, where does it end? Since I traded I don't visit those little grass strips anymore, I buy more gas, have to use a tug to move, the short body I moved by hand no problem. At the end of the day it's just like automobiles, there are different ones made for different purposes and you have to find the best match that suites your mission.

[Marauder]

"Marauder" If there is even a remote chance of upgrading to a newer plane, I wouldn't drop a penny on the avionics other than to maintain what you have. You don't want to be dropping $40k on an airplane that you may be able to sell $50k even with the upgrades.

Bob, I and others are in the "keep her" mode with no intention of upgrading to another plane. That is when it makes sense to make these investments.

I did it all wrong, I had a C which already had an ok panel but was starting my IFR training, some of the instruments were giving trouble so I bit the bullet and spent some money upgrading. I got the IFR training in a 172 then got my C model back with WAAS 430, an HSI, and a few other goodies, had a Dyon D1 and a 496 with XM, which ought to be plenty good enough to get by but I kept looking at the financial side and got into a position where trading made sense, to me anyhow. Looking back I might not do it over again but you only live once, and it hasn't put me in the poor house yet. The ovation is fun to fly I go 30 or 40 knots faster, it climbs faster, but a turbo prop lancair is 100 kts faster than me, climbs faster and higher, where does it end? Since I traded I don't visit those little grass strips anymore, I buy more gas, have to use a tug to move, the short body I moved by hand no problem. At the end of the day it's just like automobiles, there are different ones made for different purposes and you have to find the best match that suites your mission.

It's an addiction, isn't it?! My wife had it right when she said "It would have been cheaper if you had a cocaine habit"

[Ratherbflying]

"It would have been cheaper if you had a cocaine habit"

Less addictive too. When I'm locking the hangar door, the only thing on my mind is "When can I fly again?"