Comments on Garmin GX3 or AvMap EKP V Install. Non TSO Equipment Issues

[WorldWiseTrade]

Has anyone installed non-approved glass EFIS, etc to augment the traditional 6-pack?

 

Ive been looking at a panel upgrade for my M20K, Garmin G500 with GTN GPS, etc. However I came across the GX3 package and the AvMap EKP systems designed for Experimental and LSA markets. These units are 75% less expensive and provide most of the same functionality. So the thought process is... leave the current 6 pack in place (flight director, etc.) for legal IFR flying but also install the not IFR approved glass to augment the system.

 

Flying environment is pertinent, so for this conversation's relevance, I do not do hard IFR in a single engine aircraft, more just the occasional scud/fog related approach. For hard core IFR the G500 would be worth the investment, but $50K for recreational use is a bit much.

 

All comments, suggestions, discussions on the matter appreciated, also in general advice on the Garmin GX3 (GDU 370, etc http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/garminG3X-vfr.php?clickkey=138331) OR on the Avmap EKP 5 (http://avmap.it/avionics/instruments/EFIS).

 

Thanks all and Happy Flying!

[N601RX]

A few years ago it was possible to do it on a 337 and place card it as supplemental. My IA has a Dynon in his plane that he was able to get approval for 6-7 years ago. A few years ago some of the higher up found out that many of these we're getting approved and issued an order to stop field approval of them.

[Schinderhannes]

http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/rulemaking/committees/documents/media/Part.23.Reorganization.ARC.FINAL.Report.pdf

 

My understanding is that the new Part 23 regulations will allow to change our aircrafts to "private use" and the regulations will be very similar to experimental aircraft or LSAs. Subsequently we should be able to install non TSO equipment.  

[Bob - S50]

You might look at the Dynon D1 or D2 (both under $1500).  Since the are portable and not attached to the plane, there is no installation cost and no paperwork to do.  While they are not TSO'd, the D1 is my next planned purchase.  It will provide backup attitude, ground speed, GPS altitude, GPS rate of climb, ground track, turn rate, and skid indication.  I'll plug it into the USB adapter most of the time.  If I get a complete power failure, the units have their own battery which is supposed to last up to 4 hours.  Should be plenty to get me to VFR conditions (when combined with my tablet) so I can land.  While it would not be legal for IFR, it would sure make partial panel a lot easier.

[PTK]

Is the Dynon GPS altitude WAAS derived? 

 

Anyone know? 

[kerry]

Anybody know when can we start the part 23 NC process.

[jetdriven]

The FAA has made it very clear that EFIS and HID landing lights may not be approved in certificated aircraft without an STC.

The Dynon D1/D2 is a handy way to get around that because it's not installed. The Air Gizmos panel dock is installed like with an Aera or 396/496/696/796.

[N601RX]

I originally purchased a Stratus 2 for weather, but have been very impressed with the Horizon app. I've used it with a safety pilot and had no problem keeping the plane level. It updates smoothly and continuously.   I've been using it on a old Iphone 4 that I had kept after upgrading phones and I keep Foreflight on the Ipad. 

[kerry]

The way I read the part 23 link above is you can add anything to your certified plane that is non tso'd.  Something's might have to go through a phase 1 operation of limitations like experimental aircraft.  The uncertified parts have to be added to your log book and NC need to be on the planes registration.  Non commercial label needs to be visible to passengers and a A&P can sign off the yearly annual.  I thought I read part 23 will go into effect 2016 but I'm not sure. 

[jetdriven]

The way I read the part 23 link above is you can add anything to your certified plane that is non tso'd.  Something's might have to go through a phase 1 operation of limitations like experimental aircraft.  The uncertified parts have to be added to your log book and NC need to be on the planes registration.  Non commercial label needs to be visible to passengers and a A&P can sign off the yearly annual.  I thought I read part 23 will go into effect 2016 but I'm not sure. 

That link is a proposed rulemaking committee.  IE, nothing has changed unitl the final rules are out.  You can install non-TSO parts in your aircraft right now, but they specifically ban EFIS installations.  So, for now, non STC EFIS installatons are a dead issue.

[N601RX]

Also as the new rules are currently proposed they are limited to planes 2700lbs and below.  No elaboration if that is empty or gross.

[kerry]

http://www.eaa.org/news/2013/2013-12-02_president-signs-part-23-rewrite-bill-into-law.asp

 

It says Obama signed it into law.  Am I reading it wrong.

[aviatoreb]

WOW - this looks nice….  $7500 for an all one engine monitor, efis, svt, plates, AND digital two axis autopilot?!!!  ANd just check out the display options.  It is truly astounding the growing price gap between certified and uncertified, in this case from the same company.  Will this be allowed in our Mooneys after the new Congressional mandate on the FAA takes place for 2015?

 

http://garmin.blogs.com/pr/2014/03/garmin-team-x-unveils-g3x-touch.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogs%2FzWoK+(Garmin+%7C+News+Releases)

[KSMooniac]

Sooner or later I feel the regulatory environment has to relax for our end of the aviation spectrum, and we will finally be allowed to install realistically-priced products like this new G3X system.  It is just infuriating that we cannot today, while a similarly sized RV-10 can do it and fly through the same airspace, IMC, etc. that we can with a G500 at 3-4x the price.

[PTK]

I wonder what is the cost directly attributable to certified vs. non in a piece of avionics.

Say a G500 for example. Today it costs approx. 16k for a certified aircraft and 14k and change for experimental.

What difference would it make really? It doesn't seem a huge impact.

This is probably an oversimplification but I don't see how costs would drop all that much.

We'd have more options though.

[1964-M20E]

I wonder what is the cost directly attributable to certified vs. non in a piece of avionics.

Say a G500 for example. Today it costs approx. 16k for a certified aircraft and 14k and change for experimental.

What difference would it make really? It doesn't seem a huge impact.

This is probably an oversimplification but I don't see how costs would drop all that much.

We'd have more options though.

 

The cost difference will come with competition and other systems that are currently available for less than Garmin or any other current certified manufacturer.

[KSMooniac]

The cost difference will come with competition and other systems that are currently available for less than Garmin or any other current certified manufacturer.

 

I agree... look at Dynon and others in the E-AB world, not just Garmin-experimental and Garmin-certified.  Garmin in my opinion spreads the cert costs over everything so that their products (like the G3X) in the E-AB market are higher than they otherwise might be.  They get away with it of course because people are buying them for whatever reason... better product, bigger more stable company, perceived value, etc.  I also think Garmin might be trying out new tech and features in the E-AB world and we'll eventually see them migrate into certified products.  

 

Of course I hope the difference between E-AB and certified products becomes moot soon.