Ready to buy....I think

[thomas1142]

 Hello all,

Brand new to the site, really enjoy reading all the posts.

 

I have been doing research on purchasing an airplane ever since the wife did not object too much when I casually mentioned the topic. I have settled on a Mooney M20J as the aircraft best suited for our mission.

 

I am lookign for any "hidden costs" associated with aircraft purchase and ownership in Florida. It seems there is always something that is overlooked or assumed when folks complete their purchase.

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard, Thomas...

Best regards,

-a-

[N601RX]

I believe others have mentioned sales taxes issues in Florida.

[Cabanaboy]

Hanger space is expensive in Florida.

[fantom]

I believe others have mentioned sales taxes issues in Florida.

As it is everywhere. At least we don't have recurring user fees

[N601RX]

As it is everywhere. At least we don't have recurring user fees

We don't have sales tax on private transactions here in Alabama.  I thought I remembered a thread for a few years ago where someone had purchased a plane in Florida or purchased one elsewhere and moved it into Florida and got hit with a unexpected bill a few weeks later. Every state is different, some research up front may save you money in the end.

[DAVIDWH]

To avoid paying state sales tax, I highly recommend a Delaware Corp.  My savings were over $12,000 with my purchase.

 

Easily done on line, no local attorney necessary and not expensive. Just google ( Delaware Corp.)  and choose which firm to work with.

 

Once you are incorporated in Delaware, the state of Florida is out of the loop completely.  I used Harvard Business Services, Lewes Delaware, www.delawareinc.com, 302-645-7400, 800-345-2677  ext.6903 for my work

and was very satisfied with their customer service, but there are several

service groups to choose from.

 

 GOOD LUCK.

 

Oh yes, almost forgot, on your pre-buy be sure and have bottom wing panels removed to look for those blue fuel stains. This issue slipped by on my pre-buy but that is another post.

[DAVIDWH]

Fantom,

 

You are correct concerning private transactions. Sort of like purchasing a used lawn mower from a neighbor, no sales tax involved. However, if you go to a lawn mower dealer and purchase

 

your mower, you pay state sales tax.

 

 Unfortunately for me, I purchased from a dealer in Cleveland and thus had to do the Delaware end run.

[Spenscot]

I do not believe you can incorporate in Delaware and park the plane on the ramp all the time in Florida. If the plane "lives" in Florida you will end up paying the use tax. 6%   I'm not an accountant but I did get stuck paying the tax 8 months after the purchase. Please check with your accountant for the answer. There are some very good MSC in Florida so service is not a big issue. You will want to get the plane fogged with Corrosion X or equivalent once a year, or every 2 years. A hanger recommended, there is a lot of rain, and well as intense heat here.   

[Bob - S50]

When you are looking at aircraft, don't forget to ask about the useful load.  It will vary from 850 to 1000+ pounds.  Makes a big difference.  Unless you are filing IFR with an alternate, 50 gallons will usually get you as far as your posterior will want to sit.   That being the case subtract 300 (technically 291) pounds from the useful load to figure out how many pounds of people and bags you can carry.  Decide how much useful load you need to get your normal mission done.

[Bob_Belville]

Annual "Fixed" Cost Check list (in descending order of cost?):

The $$$ are my NC figures for a similar plane.

• hanger ($3000)
• annual and maintenance ($2000 plus whatever break this year this number will vary quite a bit)
• insurance ($1200 for $100,000 hull, high time Mooney pilot) 
• Garmin/Jeppesen subscriptions ($1500 this year, I'll drop one of charts subs.)
• property tax ($334)

[fantom]

A Delaware corp may delay paying FL sales tax but it won't eliminate it. The revenuers will, most likely catch up with you sooner or later. It just isn't that simple, unfortunately.

[Marauder]

To avoid paying state sales tax, I highly recommend a Delaware Corp. My savings were over $12,000 with my purchase.

Easily done on line, no local attorney necessary and not expensive. Just google ( Delaware Corp.) and choose which firm to work with.

Once you are incorporated in Delaware, the state of Florida is out of the loop completely. I used Harvard Business Services, Lewes Delaware, www.delawareinc.com, 302-645-7400, 800-345-2677 ext.6903 for my work

and was very satisfied with their customer service, but there are several

service groups to choose from.

GOOD LUCK.

Oh yes, almost forgot, on your pre-buy be sure and have bottom wing panels removed to look for those blue fuel stains. This issue slipped by on my pre-buy but that is another post.

And I personally want to thank each and everyone of you who incorporate here. My taxes (or lack thereof) appreciate it.

[fantom]

Lack of taxes in Delaware......LOL    

[Spenscot]

Taxes are the same everywhere, they just have different names. It costs the same everywhere to provide municipal services. For example :

 

My Florida property tax $6500.00

My North Carolina property tax (same appraised value)  $900.00

 In North Carolina they get it back with sales tax, vehicle tags, etc, etc, etc.  Its the same all over.

[Marauder]

Lack of taxes in Delaware......LOL

No sales tax

No aircraft taxes

Rebate on AvGas

Real estate tax 50% of my PA neighbor with same assessed value

Income tax is higher

Not bad when I see what my friends in the surrounding states pay (PA, NJ and MD).

[rainman]

Thomas, I'd just advise that you buy the J you want. Don't get a fixer-upper. There are many out there with all the things you want...avionics,interior,paint,mods, etc. just get one that's already been fixed because you can spend a lot of money that you won't get back at resale. My $0.02. Ray

[Bob_Belville]

No sales tax

No aircraft taxes

Rebate on AvGas

Real estate tax 50% of my PA neighbor with same assessed value

Income tax is higher

Not bad when I see what my friends in the surrounding states pay (PA, NJ and MD).

Credit to Joe Biden or E. I. du Pont de Nemours and Company

[Parker_Woodruff]

Where in Florida will you base your aircraft?

[John Pleisse]

Thomas,

 

Acquisition is the easiest part. After buying a settling up, you need to survive the first year or two avoiding major costs and getting to know the plane. I always suggest looking out for the expensive stuff to fix, airworthy and not. Engine- cracked cases and internal corrosion are your biggest issues. Profusely leaking tanks will run you $10k. A prop that won't make it through next OH, $9k. Crazed or smokey side glass and windscreen- $6k to replace all of it. The 208 AD for the cabin tube structure, in this case bad corrosion could total an early J. And finally, beware of corrosion from flood damage or airframes that have been pieced together ala Frankenstein/ salvage. Everything else will nickel and dime you. I have a home in Delaware and as a Maryland resident, a DE corp didn't make sense. Careful, it is usually the banks who finance your purchase....(especially B of A) that will report your purchase to your home state, regardless of incorporation origin, putting the onus on you to run around to state angencies getting everything straight.

 

I have a 1979 J and plan on $16k to $24k a year, depending on how much I fly. Good luck and welcome!!

[ArtVandelay]

 

Annual "Fixed" Cost Check list (in descending order of cost?):

The $$$ are my NC figures for a similar plane.

• hanger ($3000)
• annual and maintenance ($2000 plus whatever break this year this number will vary quite a bit)
• insurance ($1200 for $100,000 hull, high time Mooney pilot) 
• Garmin/Jeppesen subscriptions ($1500 this year, I'll drop one of charts subs.)
• property tax ($334)

In florida, it's 6+ %, some counties tack on a little extra.

T Hangers in SE Florida range from 500-650, although those numbers I got second hand, haven't check myself

I would expect a low time pilot to be $2400 give or take, at least this is the estimate I got from a online insurance estimator

 

You made your decision....I haven't made mine yet, still digesting info....good luck,

 

The scary part is not the cost of the plane, since that is a one time and you are likely to get most of your money back, it's the monthly costs and the unexpected large and numerous repair bills.

 

[ArtVandelay]

>I have a 1979 J and plan on $16k to $24k a year, depending on how much I fly.

 

Can anyone give real life costs they occurred with mooney ownership, with at least 5 years history (I know the first year can run a little high), esp. with improvements

[rbridges]

 

 

 

I've only had the plane for a little over 3 years.  I got hit with the fuel leak pretty early.  Went with bladders for $10k.  Plane has been mechanically solid.  

 

Unexpected interior repairs include glitches with King radios and audio panel, altimeter overhaul, WAAS upgrade for 430 (circuit board was goofed up so WAAS upgrade made sense).  GPSS installation was additional cost but not necessary. Maintenance included battery ($230), one new tire, two new inner tubes, new motor mounts and a few shims to align prop.  My plane is IFR certified, so I've had to spend a few bucks on pitot static checks.

[Marauder]

Depends on a number of factors... If you count reserves in the operating costs, are you financing, cost of hangar or tie-down, annuals, # hours per year you fly, etc. Are you trying to get to a rough yearly cost or a per hour rate?

[Cruiser]

From May 23, 2007 to Jan 29, 2013 

 

Five annuals = $6100

Maintenance = $55,303 includes $46,000 for FREM engine

Upgrades = $20,513 includes Aspen 2000, GNS 430W and GMA 340 install

Gas/OIl = $20,088 for 500 hrs. all LOP

Hanger = $9,060

Insurance = $9,060

Misc. = $4,012 includes tie downs, software/data subs, memberships, Oxy hardware, medical, registrations,