Shadrach Posted November 15, 2013 Report Posted November 15, 2013 http://abcnews.go.com/US/passenger-falls-plane-off-florida-coast/story?id=20892273 So this one is kind of close to home as one of my colleagues is a friend of the man that fell. Naturally, when my colleague found out about the incident he came to the resident pilot (me) in the office with questions. I feel that there are many odd things about this incident and I have tried to keep my answers to his questions as general as possible. For my own edification, does anyone know of anything unique about the PA46 air-stair that could possibly facilitate an incident like this? Quote
scottfromiowa Posted November 15, 2013 Report Posted November 15, 2013 Suicide... Recent incident with individual unbuckling and "falling" out of a helicopter too... Quote
Shadrach Posted November 15, 2013 Author Report Posted November 15, 2013 Suicide... Recent incident with individual unbuckling and "falling" out of a helicopter too... I assume that as well. When you here the ATC tape the pilot sounds so matter of fact. I'm not sure if I'd be that calm if a friend had just intentionally departed my aircraft at 2000 AGL. Quote
201er Posted November 15, 2013 Report Posted November 15, 2013 Maybe he wasn't a particularly good friend. Quote
Mooneymite Posted November 15, 2013 Report Posted November 15, 2013 I hate it when that happens. This was obviously a result of running LOP! . 3 Quote
Super Dave Posted November 15, 2013 Report Posted November 15, 2013 I'm not familiar with the workings/anunciators of the PA46 air stair, but I used to fly BE-1900Ds and the one memory item for the "CABIN DOOR" anunciator was "all occupants seated with seat belts fastened". The scenario they would discuss at initial and recurrent training was a pilot or passenger unbuckling and attempting to secure the air stair, when it catches the airstream and opens violently, pulling the occupant out of the airplane (and into the left propeller). No idea if this is the case with the PA46, but it's at least one non foul play/suicide possibility. Quote
Bartman Posted November 15, 2013 Report Posted November 15, 2013 Looks like a dent in the horizontal stabilizer too. Dead before he hit the water. Quote
Mooneymite Posted November 15, 2013 Report Posted November 15, 2013 Had this been an Aerostar (Mooney connection!), the passenger would have had his fall interrupted by the left propeller! Quote
Rwsavory Posted November 15, 2013 Report Posted November 15, 2013 This was obviously a result of running LOP! . Actually, it was the failure to use flaps on takeoff. 2 Quote
201er Posted November 15, 2013 Report Posted November 15, 2013 Actually, it was the failure to use flaps on takeoff. You're both wrong. It's cause he didn't use Camguard 2 Quote
Shadrach Posted November 15, 2013 Author Report Posted November 15, 2013 You guys are all heart.... Quote
Jerry 5TJ Posted November 15, 2013 Report Posted November 15, 2013 The PA46 door is in two parts. There are 4 lock pins. The upper half opens first and then a second latch unlocks the lower half. If you unlatch the upper half when pressurized to 5.5 psi (max differential) it will certainly open as that's over a ton of force pulling it outward. News reports put the plane at about 2000 feet at the time so the pressure differential likely was about 1 psi or less if set normally. Quote
Hank Posted November 15, 2013 Report Posted November 15, 2013 1 psi is still significant force. If the door is 2' x 3', that's 24" x 36" = 864 in2, so at 1 lb/in2 that's also 864 lbs. of "up" force. Quote
alex Posted November 16, 2013 Report Posted November 16, 2013 Had this been an Aerostar (Mooney connection!), the passenger would have had his fall interrupted by the left propeller! Had it been in an Aerostar the passenger would have never had the chance to get to the door! Quote
PTK Posted November 16, 2013 Report Posted November 16, 2013 You're both wrong. It's cause he didn't use Camguard Thanks Mike, you took the words right out of my mouth. It is clearly the only logical conclusion! 1 Quote
Shadrach Posted November 16, 2013 Author Report Posted November 16, 2013 The PA46 door is in two parts. There are 4 lock pins. The upper half opens first and then a second latch unlocks the lower half. If you unlatch the upper half when pressurized to 5.5 psi (max differential) it will certainly open as that's over a ton of force pulling it outward. News reports put the plane at about 2000 feet at the time so the pressure differential likely was about 1 psi or less if set normally. How can you tell that this is a pressurized PA46? And if it is pressurized, why would you bother with pressurizing for a local flight at 2000ft. Honestly, assumed this was a Matrix. But I know little of the PA46. Quote
N33GG Posted November 16, 2013 Report Posted November 16, 2013 Had this been an Aerostar (Mooney connection!), the passenger would have had his fall interrupted by the left propeller! Had it been in an Aerostar the passenger would have never had the chance to get to the door! Had this been in an Aerostar, the pilot would have a lot harder time claiming he/she didn't know what happened! 1 Quote
fantom Posted November 16, 2013 Report Posted November 16, 2013 The missing passenger was reported to be a dent, high on gas, screaming 'You should use CamGuard', on his way down. 3 Quote
Marauder Posted November 16, 2013 Report Posted November 16, 2013 Our corporation flew a fleet of planes back and forth to a number of our locations transporting employees. On one of those flights a similar incident occurred: http://articles.latimes.com/2000/dec/17/news/mn-1188 When you read the article, you realize strange stuff can happen... Like reporting the person jumped and the co-pilot not understanding the message... Quote
N33GG Posted November 17, 2013 Report Posted November 17, 2013 Perhaps it started out as a debate over LOP vs. ROP... Quote
Hank Posted November 17, 2013 Report Posted November 17, 2013 Maybe some engineer type, right or wrong, absolute, no variation, guy said his manual said set take-off flaps. Jus sayin' This engineer doesn't fly that way. But I know non-technical types who do . . . 1 Quote
N33GG Posted November 17, 2013 Report Posted November 17, 2013 It took a while to get to engineer envy, but we got there! All engineers, please join me in taking a bow. Quote
N33GG Posted November 20, 2013 Report Posted November 20, 2013 Sorry guys, no slight on engineers intended ... I was referencing a remark made on another thread ... No offense taken... just having fun. 1 Quote
scottfromiowa Posted November 20, 2013 Report Posted November 20, 2013 It took a while to get to engineer envy, but we got there! All engineers, please join me in taking a bow. They are the smartest in the room. Just ask 'em... Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.