Prop Strike today, October 8, 2013

[Cody Stallings]

You would never notice it.

[jetdriven]

That's just what the Hartzell manual calls for. Reduce the diameter to remove damage...... Cutting the dia back will not affect the dynamic balance, cause both blades will bet the same in as far as length, angle, edge height, ect. As long as the damage could be removed without going below the minimum dia. Permitted on the TC data sheet...... After reading the posts about a very low power setting when this happened, it's possible the hub may have survived. If so, that's $3500 saved

Its the insurance company's money you saved, not Bob's.  If they are paying for it, why get cheap now?

[Bob_Belville]

Its the insurance company's money you saved, not Bob's.  If they are paying for it, why get cheap now?

Like. (I've exhausted my "like" quota for the day.!) 

[Cruiser]

What? It's OK to waste someone else's money?

 

Bob, fix it right but don't squander the money, no matter who's paying for it.

[Bob_Belville]

What? It's OK to waste someone else's money?

 

Bob, fix it right but don't squander the money, no matter who's paying for it.

Right. I'm of a generation inclined to not waste or squander. Though I might have had an extra nice meal while on an expense account a time or two.

[Marauder]

That's just what the Hartzell manual calls for. Reduce the diameter to remove damage...... Cutting the dia back will not affect the dynamic balance, cause both blades will bet the same in as far as length, angle, edge height, ect. As long as the damage could be removed without going below the minimum dia. Permitted on the TC data sheet...... After reading the posts about a very low power setting when this happened, it's possible the hub may have survived. If so, that's $3500 saved Its the insurance company's money you saved, not Bob's. If they are paying for it, why get cheap now?

It's our money... Last I looked, I wrote the check for the premium. Bob should get it fixed right, the insurance will do their best to make sure they protect their profits.

[Cody Stallings]

The insurance company will see if it if fixable before the dole out 9k for a new propeller, we do insurance jobs all the time. If it can be fixed, you will be getting it back...... That's just how they roll. If there is any cracking, then you will be getting a fresh new box in the mail that says Hartzell on the side.

[fantom]

Interesting enigma.

[Bob_Belville]

I may rue this post... so far QBE has been great to work with. No doubt the devil may come out in the details but we're moving forward rapidly thanks to a very responsive adjuster.

 

BTW, the chief mechanic who is doing the work for me at 6B6 advises that the depression in the ramp has been filled in already and the manhole cover area is now painted bright orange.

 

Something about horses and barn doors...

[fantom]

That is called a "subsequent remedial measure".  If litigation were to ensue, it shows that the airport acted responsibly by quickly addressing the problem as soon as they became aware of it.  Yet, under the law, their actions would not be admissible to prove that they were negligent in the first place.   

 

 

There goes your new Mooney Jet, Bob

[Bob_Belville]

There goes your new Mooney Jet, Bob

Gary, Jim says the fix is NOT a legal defense so a guy can dream. Sadly, it's become the American way. 

[jetdriven]

It's our money... Last I looked, I wrote the check for the premium. Bob should get it fixed right, the insurance will do their best to make sure they protect their profits.

Im saying fix it right, dont be concerned with the cost of a new blade or hub. Hartzell and McCauley, IIRC, have letters that say if the blades wont pass or are damaged more than a specified amount, to scrap the Hub. Probably lawyer talk, but its in print.

[Bob_Belville]

Im saying fix it right, dont be concerned with the cost of a new blade or hub.  Hartzell and McCauley, IIRC, have letters that say if the blades wont pass or are damaged more than a specified amount, to scrap the bug.  Probably lawyer talk, but its in print.

The adjuster is ok with the estimate from the prop shop of $8800 plus $300 which is new blades and hub if deemed necessary. The prop shop does not have the prop yet but the A&P/IA who is removing commented that is looks to him like the damage goes beyond the 3/4" maximum trim allowed. (The prop is 4-1/2 years old with 180 hours)

[fantom]

How many hours on your engine, Bob?

 

Keep the old prop!

[jetdriven]

The adjuster is ok with the estimate from the prop shop of $8800 plus $300 which is new blades and hub if deemed necessary. The prop shop does not have the prop yet but the A&P/IA who is removing commented that is looks to him like the damage goes beyond the 3/4" maximum trim allowed. (The prop is 4-1/2 years old with 180 hours)

If they replace the blades and hub, why dont you just get a new prop? You are getting a new one piecemeal anyways, for the same cost.

[fantom]

Bob should know better than to ever paraphrase an attorney

[Bob_Belville]

How many hours on your engine, Bob?

 

Keep the old prop!

700 SFRM - seems to be doing great, 75/77/74/78; oil analysis fine, 1 qt/~7 hrs.; starts like a champ, hot or cold, zero gami spread, runs smoothly LOP. 

Keep the old prop? explain. (I already have an old blade decorating the hanger from 30 years ago - a few thousands undersized.)

[Bob_Belville]

If they replace the blades and hub, why dont you just get a new prop? You are getting a new one piecemeal anyways, for the same cost.

I misstated I guess. Yes, the prop shop said that at the point a new prop was cheaper and that's what their estimate assumes as worse case.

[Bob_Belville]

 

Bob should know better than to ever paraphrase an attorney

 

I should indeed.

[fantom]

700 SFRM - seems to be doing great, 75/77/74/78; oil analysis fine, 1 qt/~7 hrs.; starts like a champ, hot or cold, zero gami spread, runs smoothly LOP. 

Keep the old prop? explain. (I already have an old blade decorating the hanger from 30 years ago - a few thousands undersized.)

 

If that's a first run engine I'll trade you

 

Just thought the old prop might have some value, especially if it could be reworked, if for nothing else but a ferry prop.

[jetdriven]

Experimental guys such as Vans RV guys would give you a few grand for it.  Advertise it over on VAF. If you give it to the prop shop thats what they will do

[Bob_Belville]

If that's a first run engine I'll trade you

 

Just thought the old prop might have some value, especially if it could be reworked, if for nothing else but a ferry prop.

Understand. I assumed I'd cross that bridge when the time came. I do not suppose the prop shop is making a trade in allowance so it we go with new the old prop belongs to me or more likely the insurance company.

 

What would you do with my IO360A1A in your 201?

[jetdriven]

Years ago we had a prop shop reject a Hartzell blade as being .001 undersized after they sanded the hub. If that wasn't bad enough they carved ".001" in the blade tip, which made the blade unservicable even in the experimental market. I think that the other blade, which also got carved on, was .003 undersized.

Lesson learned. At least from my perspective as a U.S. Part 91 operator, never, ever, request a prop overhaul. Request an IRAN, and then evaluate your options. Prop overhauls can be destructive.

Right on. As some of you maybe shocked to hear this, I have a very low opinion of prop shops. Most never saw a prop that didn't need to be overhauled. The local one near me is the worst. Our 1300 hr engine began making metal. The local shop said my 1300 SNEW prop needed an overhaul and it was going to be 4 grand and a good chance it won't pass. They grind the blades to limits and when it comes back in 50 hours leaking, its scrap. Right. I took it to San Antonio propeller and they reprinted and resealed it for 600$.

[fantom]

I have a very low opinion of prop shops. Most never saw a prop that didn't need to be overhauled.

 

My experience also. Never, ever, request a prop overhaul.

[carusoam]

We need a poll... (Mike, where are you today?)

Taxiing on a known taxiway at normal taxi speeds should or should not result in prop damage...?

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The focus should be on fix it at lowest cost or fix it correctly...?

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What is correctly....?

A Inspect and rework the known damaged pieces?

B Go the next step tear down and measure all expected /possibly damaged pieces?

C replace all damaged pieces with new?

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Bob,

I feel your pain.

I expect that you might be getting a funny shaped box from Hartzell. But it will take about 6 to 8 weeks...

But I'm neither a lawyer or insurance man. But I've paid both regularly....

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Thanks for sharing your situation.

Best regards,

-a-