Leaderboard

I got finished reading all of Mr Baber's posts in his recent thread on here regarding the prior engine issue. He sounds like a thoughtful and humble guy who handled the event carefully and intelligently. The sediment in the left tank sounded like the culprit, the approach to addressing it seemed fairly meticulous. It's very sad his efforts and those of his A&P weren't enough to keep him safe. What an awful tragedy. RIP Also f*ck the folks who immediately want to point the finger at him without knowing sh*t.

We all hope that Mooney factory produced parts and 3rd party parts that are built for Mooney to Mooney specifications remain available. Some of us are more price sensitive than others, but ultimately availability is more important than cost. I think a lot of the concern is that LASAR has articulated good intentions but has not described in any detail how it intends to create a sustainable parts business beyond significantly raising prices. The membership plan does not inspire confidence because it appears to signal serious undercapitalization for the task at hand.

Toyota imports 212,000 camry's in one year into the US, that is about 200k more than all the mooney's ever made.. A "high" production aircraft is still a scarce item. I do not want to pay monthly for some vague promise of priority and pricing, or to have "early" access to parts. This seems like a poorly thought out idea. None of the advantages are quantifiable, and it certainly makes them seem desperate. I mean if someone who does not subscribe needs a part in the future are they going to refuse to sell it to them? Of course not, they want to sell as many parts as possible. Or lets say there is no stock of an item that requires a minimum order of 50 to get from the vendor and one subscribing customer orders one part, what happens? Do they order the 50 and hope to sell them to other subscribers or do they wait until they have most or all of them sold prior to ordering? None of this is clarified. I would have preferred to prepay some amount in the form of a credit, to order future parts at cost plus 10% that would be attached to my tail number. This way it is actually something that you could use if you kept the plane, or at least use as a selling point to the person buying the plane. This is absolutely quantifiable, allows everyone to choose their own level of support or participation, and could provide Lasar the cash to build inventory. They could also do a survey of desired parts, to compliment the database search of what is selling to identify the best and highest need for parts I get the logic behind the idea to make this analogous to insurance, they felt that the owners would like to make sure product support would continue. I mean all of us want Mooney to survive and produce parts to keep our fleet flying, but even after all this time and all the feedback, they still cannot adequately explain how this benefits the person paying the fees. What happens if you subscribe to the "Gold" level for 10 years and at the end you have ordered $5,000 in parts. You have paid $50,000 for the privilege of a 25% discount which saved you $1,250? Mind you, none of these levels of membership guarantee availability of anything either! If you had to wait 4 months for an order to be filled this would not bring about a bunch of warm and fuzzy feelings about the monthly bill. This is not a compelling sales pitch at all, in fact, it seems like a very poorly received attempt to persuade. When that happens you need to reevaluate and adjust. When you are doing something that is not working and making the issue worse, the first step is to stop that thing! I also see that I am not in the minority of opinions here, their own website says only 8 people have elected to "join". Here is the kicker, while mooneyspace is a small sample of the ownership demographic, we are a much more relevant example of engaged owners who actually do think about the future of the company. I would venture to bet that 70% of owners are completely oblivious to this situation and if they got something in the mail asking them to pay monthly to support a business they do not currently need anything from, that mailer is going directly from the mailbox to the garbage can. If people who are engaged and care, cannot figure out the benefit, how to you expect to convince the rest of the fleets owners? At least a prepaid credit toward future parts as a capital raise is simple and quantifiable. I have been optimistic/hopeful, and very open to hearing them tailor this proposal to make more sense, but it appears they are not going to go this direction. If I am missing something and there is a benefit here, I would love someone to explain it to me.

Can't blame 'em for making sure they lose Other People's Money

Sometimes you can get them out with a left handed drill bit. I've had luck with grabits

Me, too! IMHO, LASAR’s pricing is purely predatory and based on their monopoly. How else do you explain, as an example, charging over $100 for a simple seat roller that they previously sold for under 20 bucks? Sure, it’s market pricing and based on capitalism which is why I won’t rant “it isn’t fair” They are free to do as they please. As I am to bitch about it. I understand that owners which have spent north of $500K on their planes don’t give a crap about the part prices; they’re just happy to be able to buy them. But to be mystified why some owners (e. g. me) complain about usurious prices is some sad combination of elitism and naïveté.

This just breaks my heart, hope the surviving passenger makes a quick and complete recovery and can shed some light on what happened. Following this thread you could feel the excitement about the new to him Mooney. Also the frustration trying to solve the issue but what was he to do after he was told that the problem was solved including test flights. I agree with the comments that conditions should have been a no go for a new to him flight with a possible issue with reliability. this really sucks

Since the passing of Freddb34, can the status be changed, instead of verified member, supporter…….maybe “gone west”?

I had some issues with my J (wing drop) when I first bought it, but I fixed them with flight control rigging as per the maintenance manual. The Mooney Flyer and Knr-Inc websites have great resources that make the process easier and clearer. My mechanic is very conscientious and follows the maintenance manual. He got my plane flying straight. While it’s nice to bring your Mooney to an expert, if you trust your local mechanic, they should be able to fix it without the hassle of travel. Your plane should also now fly faster and stall safer. https://themooneyflyer.com/issues/2017-OctTMF.pdf https://knr-inc.com/shoptalk-articles.html?view=article&id=75&catid=25 https://knr-inc.com/shoptalk-articles.html?view=article&id=106&catid=25

Using either is way better than using nothing.

My view point is I bought a plane that in today’s dollars would cost more than my house when new. And mx on it is priced as if it was still that 800k plane. Yes it’s 46 years old, but I wouldn’t by a vintage Porsche or Ferrari then complain about the high cost to maintain it. I won’t go out of my way to spend more that necessary but if I need that 3000 part well shit, but I need it so I’m going to buy it and not complain. I may be in a smaller group but I also keep expense and hard to get parts on hand. IE an extra overhauled cylinder assembly, turbo V band clamps etc. because while the cost of them is high the cost of my plane being down is higher.

So he posted bail, went home, fired up his keyboard and began displaying his now-proven D-bag skills with this accident . . .

I won’t speculate as to the cause of this crash. I am quite sad about the whole thing.

Gryder is an idiot

After extensive troubleshooting, not being able to identify root cause of an engine issue that lead to an emergency landing several years ago was one of the most uncomfortable situations I've been in as a pilot; so much so that it lead to a firewall forward overhaul (which was coming due anyway). It looks like Fred may have had confidence that they had identified the cause (sediment in the tanks) and it looks like he implemented a cautious check flight over the airport. It's hard to second guess what should have been done. Just tragic and f'ing horrendous given the history.

I've been thinking about this accident a lot since I read about it here on Mooneyspace yesterday. In my opinion this was an accident that shouldn't have happened, no matter the ultimate physical cause. For nearly 4 weeks and 4 pages of numerous thoughts this plane and circumstance has been discussed. Some very sharp people have entered the discussion. Yet it was clear to me at least, though the OP asked for assistance in his first post, he had his heart set on flying that airplane--no matter what. I have found the instrument rating provides a close look into the personality of an individual. Personality traits are magnified and by the conclusion of that endeavor it is not difficult to identify areas that could be problematic to future flying adventures. Although certainly no psychiatrist, I like to go over the 5 hazardous attitudes and discuss any one I think might cause a potential issue for the student in the future. Obviously this needs to be done tactfully. However, in 31 years of instructing I've still had 2 former instrument students kill themselves as a result of the hazardous attitudes I discussed with them. One was "resignation" and the other was "anti-authority". If I were to hazard a guess at this one, it would be a combination of a small dose of "impulsivity" mixed with a large dose of "invulnerability". I hope the lesson of this tragedy, is that we all carefully look through the lens of the 5 hazardous attitudes before we push the throttle forward.

TL;DR: the plane flies straight. I'm sure many of you know Flight Enhancements as the maker of the electric step conversion, and some other nifty items. I have flown in the owners plane with the "Auto Lean" and it is amazing. This is a review of Rob as an A&P, and particularly his skills at rigging my 79 J model. This man knows his Mooneys. I took delivery of a beautiful 201 and while it flew straight enough, it didn't *look straight*. The left side flap was hanging a bit low, and both ailerons were "drooping" down quite a bit. We looked in the manual and it states between 0 and 2 degrees downward is the appropriate range. Rob helped to adjust the ailerons and flaps so they looked proper, and followed the book properly as well. We took it up for a flight. A slight pull to the left. We made another adjustment. Now a very very slight pull to the left and required a little rudder correction. We landed and Rob said, while my face was glowing with happiness about my new plane, "you might want to hop into the FBO for a minute" and he pulled out a pair of pliers and custom made tool. "Oh my god, no" I said and ran away. The final tweaks require slight bending of the trailing edge of the control surfaces and I couldn't watch. I just bought this plane! He finished up, and the sun went down. Next time we went up for a flight, I had almost forgotten about the rigging. Why? Because the plane flew perfectly straight and called no attention to it! Best part is, he didn't have to take the dreadful pliers to the plane again The straight facts are: Rob Takacs is honest, intelligent, well-skilled and a real Mooney pro. He is a true mentor when it comes to his CFI duties but that is a post for another day. And probably too sappy.

The problem was downstream (Engine cutting out). One problem is found upstream. Best course of action is to check ALL the places along the stream to ensure the problem upstream has not created more problems downstream. It's called a system for a reason. All the parts of the system have to work in order to have fuel delivery happen. Was having the discussion just yesterday about how quickly you have to push down in a Mooney in take off configuration if engine cuts out to not stall it. Everyone should practice this up high.

Flew with co-owner to Shoreham (EGKA) in UK before returning to France at night after TCUs have vanished. Clouds are easy to spot on halloween full moons

As someone who learned to fly with round dials, foggles and cranked out a LOC BC with NDB radials as step-down fixes/map for my commercial multi rating, I say ditch the “wild mix” and old, obsolete radios (standalone DME, etc). I did something similar like what you are suggesting to my old Comanche and I still regret it to this day, over 15 years after selling it. If you are truly starting from scratch with a completely new / cut panel, forget round holes, for anything.

The Aspen units don’t hold a candle to the Garmin G3X. Couple that with a G5 (sorry 275 fanboys) and a GFC-500 and you’re done (Except for actual radios / navigators / audio panels / transponders)

What does something like this cost?

This stuff is pretty amazing. https://solderit.com/screw-grab-liquid-0-5-oz-carded-for-stripped-screws-all-screw-heads-sg-94/?srsltid=AfmBOoq_0Vk5QYs72a_0JHBoCY93QqmqbcUMJHtTVJ9eL004HyspxOCq I knew this guy from shows and he could round out Philips so there was almost smooth and a drop of this and the screwdriver would grab.

https://youtu.be/Ac7G7xOG2Ag?si=5DWOdBOJfCUKjv4h

FYI I got a call last week from Lasar that the wing gauge capsules marked for my tanks had come, it sounds like a batch of 25 or so arrived and they were calling the "let us know when you get 'em" list. They might have been a bit more than I'd remembered but not absurdly more. NB the price is intrinsically a bit wacky for such a small part, as discussed previously, but explained by the small #s and custom order (for the label marking) from the actual gauge manufacturer.

That’s an air horn that makes the Stuka dive bomber sound when you put it into a dive. It’s purpose is to strike fear in the hearts of Cessna and Piper pilots.

I'm not gonna bitch until I have to buy a part. Then I'll consider the cost of US engineering, manufacturing set up and production labor, FAA oversight (audits, approvals), packaging, sales, shipping, insurance, and then doubling the cost to turn a profit and see if I think the cost is reasonable. Considering the limited market, even a seat roller is going to be expensive.

Thankfully Lasar is not a monopoly either as I can buy used parts off Ebay. @$&# Lasar. As previously stated: I wish them failure.

"Yes it’s 46 years old, but I wouldn’t by a vintage Porsche or Ferrari then complain about the high cost to maintain it" I own both. HUGE difference. I have access to aftermarket parts with resllers such as Amazon and Ebay competing on price of parts. I can (AND DO) do maintenance myself. There are multiple European shops that also compete should I not wish to do my own maintenance. I do NOT "complain" about Ferrari and Porsche parts prices. It is NOT a monopoly.

Richard Collins pointed out many times over the years that the cost of maintaining an airplane is more related to the cost of a new airplane than the current value of the airplane. This was based on his experience owning many airplanes over 60 years.

LASAR turned on the vintage Mooney community several years ago in regards to the owner produced parts. Funny how they have a short term memory and now want us to support them? No thanks.

I think that's exactly what's happening right now. But I don't think LASAR's model is sustainable. They're essentially pricing out vintage Money owners. I, for one, well not spend essentially >1% of my plane's value on plastic seat rollers. LASAR seems to be targeting the much higher valued Mooneys in the fleet. But those Mooneys represent a much smaller number and probably will need far fewer parts over the next decade. With the astronomical increase in parts pricing, I think it will push down the resale value of all Mooneys.

A YouTube channel I frequent, hoping to NOT see my Mooney friends making the news… The YTer is Keoni, an AARF fire fighter at an airport in Hawaii… prayers for the lost and especially, the injured airman… Best regards, -a-

Well, we are all part of an elite group of Mooney pilots. They all have the same characteristics and we go faster than the other guys. When I see others at an airport , I feel a connection and I am glad to see them. Whether an older or newer Mooney , still better than the others Alan

I once asked RBC and they responded MIL-PRF-81322 grease. Kind of hard to apply to rod ends without zerk fittings. My M20J SMM says Tri-Flow and that's what I use. It is less oily that LPS-2 and should attract less dirt.

I don’t think he pulled a gun on the ANN editor and Chief. That conflict occurred over the phone. The incident involving the gun was between Gryder and an airport resident named Tracy Wallace. Mr. Wallace appears to be a bit of a hot head as well, with previous charges connected to physical conflict. Looks to me like two D-bags got together and tried to out D-bag one another. It appears that Dan was triumphant

This is were the true community comes together and shares knowledge and expertise with OPP. Much like the other defunct manufacturers. But being extorted for the privilege to be extorted.

You’ll truly understand the meaning of usurious if private equity gets hold of Mooney.

I think mainly because bitching about the weather gets old, and they really need to bitch about something. Probably need more fiber in their diet.

Pilot range extender?

Oh, man, that is so sad. Regardless of the reasons, that's just sad to see. :'(

Chasing storms yesterday from Austin to Florida. Wound up stopping in New Orleans and Tallahassee cause the Mooney was moving faster than the front! Alaska and a couple other commercial aircraft were landing at TLH to go to Million Air as they were having a sale on fuel…plus wx to Tampa and Orlando was blocked. Florida Flow Control I’ll bet was lit yesterday. ”If you have time to spare go by air” indeed. 10a arrival turned to a 7p arrival, but my ride was smooth and the Mooney stayed dry. Modern weather tools are really pretty incredible. PS. KNEW is a fav…first rate FBO (Flightline First), good fuel prices and fun airport to fly into right on Lake Pontchartrain. Put it on your list if you’re in the area and give yourself an excuse to check out NOLA

While I agree that this is a really cool little pump, when is the last time anyone here has had a low tire away from their home base airport that wasn't a complete flat that needed a tire or tube replaced? I've only been flying for about 16 years but I've never had it happen or seen it happen. For me, I've had one flat tire away from home base (when I was trying to pick up a new-to-me airplane) but the tube was shot so no amount of air would have helped. I've seen flat tires happen to two people away from their home base, but in both cases a tire inflator wouldn't have helped, they needed tools and parts as well (jacks, wrenches, tubes, tires) If you tie down or hangar somewhere without power this might be useful, but I wouldn't take it with me on a flight.

That's a wild ride! I was at Jake's shop in Daytona a few weeks back. Frank popped in and we were chatting about the 201 that I was having a Prebuy Inspection done on. I didn't end up buying that plane. Frank said something like "well you're a bit late, I just sold a really nice one." He pointed outside to the Mooney you just flew home. That bird is a really nice specimen!

https://asn.flightsafety.org/wikibase/561073 https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=242286 https://www.news10.com/news/saratoga-county/plane-crashes-near-saratoga-county-airport/ https://www.news10.com/news/saratoga-county/authorities-identify-victims-of-deadly-milton-plane-crash/amp/

The DTSB final report is out https://data.thedtsb.org/accident/mooney-m20e-n79338/ Dan Gryder concluded his exhaustive investigation and determined that the probable probable cause is pilot caused stall and absolutely not a fuel problem.