Leaderboard

Couple thoughts. First, anyone who viewed Mooney's financials should NOT comment. They are in possession of MNPI and can be sued for tortious interference especially now that Privates are being solicited. Second, this LASAR plan fails within a year or maybe never even gets off the ground (see what I did there?). Based on the following. Third, LASAR's video showed lack of sophistication and I don't mean just the terrible production quality. The message was neither crisp nor enlightening. I get we are only talking single digit millions here, but as a 30 year Investment Banker who's seen a lot of presentations over the lifecycle of a company, that video was outright a waste of time. This latest message takes the lack of sophistication further (announced the need for funding AFTER you announce the deal). That's way backwards but in line with how they described the take over of LASAR; no real plan and no foresight to the issues. Fourth, it doesn't matter whether you consider yourself a lender or equity holder by paying the upfront subscription or entering into the Privates. The result is the same, you're equity given the lack of collateral based on some of the materials from LASAR and the 1st stage pitch distributed here several years ago. I bet NOLV is at best $500,000. Fifth, any creditor can involuntarily declare Mooney bankrupt should the amount of debt meet the limit (limit routinely increases but is surprisingly small). However, I would bet there's no debt here. Mooney couldn't even get terms on payables (a low bar) according to Mooney's hobbyist CEO. Also, unlikely any equity investor converted to debt (its usually the other way around). Lack of debt actually makes a buyout here easier. The change could just be a paperwork exercise with as little as $1 being exchanged. Ask Bombardier how that would work. They did it in 2017. Last, this train wreck was predictable years ago when the latest ownership group came in. A lawyer as a CEO rarely works (Frank Blake at HD being the rare exception). A lawyer who has no operating experience in any manufacturing much less aerospace (the issues here are not specific to the aerospace industry), funded by friends and family money, and wants to do a turnaround as a hobby? Well, that's laughable. Hey, I get it though, sounds cool at parties to say I am the CEO of an airplane manufacturer. I've had to make tough credit decisions. I've funded into companies that eventually went BK. I've negotiated forbearance agreements. An investment decision on LASAR's "scheme" isn't a close decision. It's just terrible. Btw, my name is William P. Rutkowski in Atlanta. Anyone is welcome to look up my credentials in LinkedIn. NOTE, THIS IN NO WAY SHOULD BE CONSIDERED INVESTMENT ADVICE. PLEASE CONSULT YOUR FINACIAL ADVISOR BEFORE INVESTING.

After some years of flying all of us have had experiences that cannot be had on the ground or adequately described. This past week we had an unusual for October weather system come through the Bay Area. I had a student finishing up training for his Instrument Rating and we were finally able to get some significant time in the clouds. After the days' training I flew back to San Jose. The IFR flight was at 6,000 feet and it turned out to be just on top of the clouds. I decided to video some of it. You can really get the sense of speed, as I was indicating 170 knots. BTW, my student passed his checkride later that day. https://youtu.be/v8VPCZS_JFI

The ideal buyer for the remaining assets is Univair. They’ve cracked the model for maintaining profitability by manufacturing parts for orphaned type certificates. They understand the business side; they understand the regulatory side. Mooney doesn’t need more dreamers to keep the fleet flying. They need an experienced manufacturer that already understands how to be profitable selling parts for certificated aircraft.

The factory has records of what has been ordered over the last 30 years. There does not need to be a generation or model specific priority. First, it should actually be based on what has been ordered, because that is the actual demand. For example… Im sure main, and nose gear doors, steps, belly pans and lower cowlings are pretty popular given the number of gear up landings. Nose gear trusses from towing damage or engine baffles, and so on. I don’t think defining what would get attention would be difficult, controversial, nor alienating to anyone. If you select the top 50 parts being ordered to start, you’re going to make most of the fleet pretty happy. Step two would perhaps identify the next tier, something like top 50 AOG parts like the intake boot I’ve read about, or the gear actuator, or the back spring. They could also do a survey of the top 10 parts concerns of Mooney owners. This would be tricky because of participation, but you have to start somewhere. Asking MSC”s for their wish list is another source. If you can find out what people actually need and focus there first it would be much easier to separate people from their money. Im refraining from criticizing them at this juncture because they appear to be the only option and I’d like to be optimistic. The only real sin so far seems to be poor planning, and communication. They can still salvage the faith if they figure it out soon…

A turn around of Mooney would simply start with a focus on the typical first steps for a turnaround; overhead and WC. To be clear, my comments earlier were not primarily focused on Mooney's past. If that's the only thing someone gets from my post, they really missed the mark. The timing of the solicitation for Privates and the whole idea of a subscription model is a huge red flag. It's a very typical play for a company desperate for cash and is usually the last gasp before it closes. Summary: this is a train wreck, I would not give LASAR any money upfront until they have a very clear and saliant list of what the issues are and how they plan to overcome them. Don't hold your breathe for that. Neither Mooney nor LASAR seem to have that ability or experience. OK, this has been fun. I need to focus on the M&A deals that actually make me money. Oh, and if someone gets the Private Placement Memorandum, please do NOT share it or a summary of it. Again, that's MNPI. William Rutkowski

Not at all. It was the most restrained thing I possibly could have said for one of the most ignorant posts I've ever seen on Mooneyspace. I will not respond on this subject further. The attack was by him on Mooney personnel whom he has never met that work at a place he has never been. They could work anywhere else and have a lot better job security and better pay and benefits. Many of them are supporting the airplanes they and their parents help build, now under adverse circumstances. They deserve better than that. I would defend any of you in the same situation.

Great co-located event in Branson. Flying, ground instruction and seminars all together. Knock out a BFR, IPC and night currency all at once along with WINGS credit. Great presentations by LASAR, Don Maxwell and Richard Simile among others. If you haven’t done any of these before, you should. And the joint event doubles the impact. https://www.mooneymax.com https://mooneysafety.com/ppp-agenda/

It's a massive footprint for a product that doesn't have economies of scale. Because the product doesn't sell in this small aviation market to the levels it needs to. This is some of the lowest cost labor in the country and the people have been furloughed and brought back so many times. There isn't some vast management structure there day in and day out.

I would respectfully disagree with some of your points. 1. Some highly qualified employees, like Frank Crawford, have been with Mooney through the various management and ownership structures and their contribution to the factory and to Mooney fleet is simply invaluable. They are probably worth their weight in gold, if not more. 2. Bad management does not automatically translate into bad employees. Managers come and go, but loyal employees who are passionate about what they do tend to weather the storms. I do agree with your statement that you have no clue about who works for Mooney and what they do. Your remarks appear to be rather offensive to those who have been part of Mooney for many decades and who kept our planes flying, despite some of the poor management choices made by the owners and managers of the company.

One, when they shut down, then started back up a few months later just about everyone who was called, returned. Sign of dedication to the company. Two, when I was able to get through with a need, I was supplied with an above and beyond answer, in one case including a photo of my airplane on the assembly line int 2004. Three, Last time I was at Kerrville, I did not see any expensive or late model personal vehicles in the parking lot. (It's a tell for how well your employees are doing) Four, I was employed by an airline that had a sterling reputation until bad management took it over and we suffered a 10 year decline to the point of bankruptcy. I and fellow employees kept our heads up but if you don't have the tools, you can't do your job. The new management came in and said (this is a direct quote), "We will no longer balance our books on the backs of our employees" We went from worst to first, the most financially successful airline in the history of mankind and with the results announced last Wednesday are pulling away from every. competitor. Because management completely changed the business paradigm of not trying to sell the cheapest seats but getting the most money for each seat sold by creating value in the product. Finally, and I am sure because of your location you are not aware of this, but the Kerrville area suffered flash floods Friday July 4 of this year. 107 deaths including 37 children swept away, some bodies still have not been found. I am sure not a person in the factory was untouched in some way personally being a tight community, but a part I ordered July 1 was shipped shipped out on Monday July 7. Dedication.

I think this is just another example of Lasar demonstrating that they don't understand the market they're in.

If a lot of key context was provided at the event, it hasn’t made its way into the website or public documentation; that lack of transparency is exactly what’s makes me uneasy. Before anyone talks about “buying in” or taking a position, LASAR needs to clearly define what that even means. Are these actual equity shares with governance rights? Are they prepaid memberships? Is there a legal entity to own equity in? Right now, it’s not clear, and asking for money without that clarity is risky, and from where I sit, sounds disingenuous. So far, the model presented is still ask for money first, provide value proposition second. That doesn't work for most people.

At least there’s movement, so that’s good. However, is anyone in need of one for airworthiness now? Certainly not 50 people, so how does it work with getting 50 people to buy a part they might need (or not) in 5-10 years?

This is a little difficult to decode, but I think it means the following: Gears would cost $2514.59 if they were available off the shelf (which they are not). If 50 owners pay in advance $1885.00, then LASAR will place an order with an 18 week lead time. Not stated what happens if fewer than 50 owners commit or when funds need to be sent to LASAR. If you have LASAR install the gears, the price drops to $1471.00. Not stated how much the installation costs or when the actuator needs to be sent to LASAR to secure this price.

If GMax has one similar to yours and is asking $100K, then that is probably the high side valuation. There was a M20E (Serial No. 690) with speed mods and new looking paint recently at IndyAir listed for $49K. (see below). It just sold. That is probably the low side valuation. Also did you see this topic from August Mooney M20E - N5668Q - Aircraft For Sale - Indy Air Sales

RE: The LASAR program As far as I'm concerned, this isn't purely an ROI decision. This is more of an issue where LASAR is asking for a fairly large financial commitment and blind faith it will help the factory stay afloat, with nearly zero details as to how the money will be used. Teasing swag and quarterly reports for the highest tier contributors is not compelling nor does it build trust. There needs to be far more transparancy.

Handheld radios typically have much less transmit power than the ship's radio. Even using the external antenna expect greatly reduced transmit range.

This is how I read the situation: LASAR is pushing the message that Mooney may go under, and to be fair, that’s a real possibility. They’re leveraging that sentiment to sell what looks like a prepaid membership program, asking owners to inject capital into a LASAR/Mooney relationship that remains opaque to the public. Owners are being asked to fund this project on the assumption that parts availability will improve and that discounts and priority access will be honored long-term. Unfortunately, several red flags stand out. There’s no information about which parts or models will be prioritized, what discount tiers will look like, or even what “priority ordering” actually means. It’s a funding-first, value-second approach. They’re asking for money before quantifying what they’ll deliver. No matter how much Mooney owners want to help, that doesn’t foster trust or goodwill. What would build trust instead is real transparency: – What are the deliverables for membership? – What are the timelines? – Which parts and models will be prioritized first? – What will pricing and discount structures look like? Show us a parts roadmap. What’s available now, what’s in the pipeline, what’s planned, and projected pricing. Hiding that information behind higher contribution tiers only fuels suspicion. Other transparency items: – What’s the projected annual cost to keep Mooney operational? – How exactly will membership funds be allocated? – What happens to unspent funds if this program folds? And beyond finances, I’d like to see LASAR actively engage the Mooney community: participate here, contribute to the Mooney Flyer, sponsor the Mooney Safety Foundation PPP program, or support training initiatives. I might be wrong but their only recent participation has been their pitch at the recent Mooney Summit. Sustained involvement in these established community channels would go a long way toward establishing trust and goodwill. I’m not rooting for LASAR to fail, I’m rooting them and Mooney owners to work and thrive together.

I believe that what you showed is what flying is all about. What a sensation.

It is easy to confuse realism with cynicism. Some of us have owned our Mooney since last century and have seen multiple bankruptcies, company owners come and go and the factory shut down multiple times, the longest being five (5) years with without the prospect of ever restarting. Yet we kept our Mooney's flying. There seems to be a lot of "panic, the end is near... so you need to send money now" for a proposal that is slick schlock. Be honest - the pitch is "sign up and send money now - we will work out the details later". The Letter reads like a pyramid (ponzi) scheme presentation from the '70's. (Does anyone remember the "Dare to Be Great" ponzi scheme?!!). I am too old to mince words with niceties. If LASAR wanted to be serious they would provide more detail on how they propose to use the money to support the fleet, and what portion will actually be supported. They would do some homework and share some facts - more than "We have a plan", "Reduce the risk", "access to KPI's", "piloting Ask Mooney". Surely, they can do more analysis and work than me. I searched the US, Canada and Australian Registries. There are 6,823 Mooney's registered in those 3 countries. Obviously there are a few more in Europe and with less in South America and Africa but this probably represents about 95% of the world fleet. The data is current as of just before the shutdown. 159 are not M20 - they are the Mooney version of Ercoupe, A10's, M18's and M22's 96 are wood wing M20 and M20A 2,431 are Short Body 116 M20B 1.351 M20C 88 M20D 876 M20E 3,212 are Mid Body 770 M20F 126 M20G 1,492 M20J 824 M20K Only 925 are Long Body 17 M20L 263 M20M 427 M20R 60 M20S 128 M20TN 12 M20U 18 M20V This is about "unobtanium" parts unique to everyone's' particular Mooney that they are panicked about being AOG. So what do you think the money will go towards? It can't be for everyone/every model. The F's share much with the early J's. Combined that is 33% of the worldwide fleet right there. C's alone comprise another 20% of the worldwide fleet. Short and Mid body Mooney's comprise 83% of the worldwide fleet. If you look at the parts manuals, you will see that the M and early R's have a lot of commonalities excluding firewall forward. Later R's have more commonalities with the S and TN. U's and V's are unicorns. In total that is about 13% of the fleet but split somewhat. So shouldn't LASAR focus first on Mid bodies and then Short bodies? Why spend time and money on Long bodies that are only 13% of the fleet? ..... Oh right - Long body owners will pay more. Perhaps the reality is that LASAR will focus on only Long bodies as one of the early posts feared. Mid and Short body owners need to know LASAR's intentions BEFORE sending Assurance Plan funds. This is just common sense. LASAR can do better.

Some on here are too close to Kerrville Mooney. Maybe it is because they are sentimental. Maybe it is because they know some individuals that work there. This is about the business of supplying critical parts at this point. Based on what Laser has thrown out And having to source my own actuator I have zero faith in Mooney and or Lasar to service the vintage fleet in a timely affordable clear open and honest fashion. It is a strip tease that goes on and on and on, but there is nothing sexy about the show venue, performers or music. Parts for the most part can be obtained for vintage Mooneys. THAT is how I will continue, as I have for 25 years to maintain my plane. This is not off broadway, it is back alley. Good luck on the return on investment of your parts plan purchase. Gonna work out great.

Call me jaded, but any time a company in financial distress starts touting "corporate transparency" my bulls#@% meter pegs to full-scale deflection. What we saw so far was about as transparent as a black hole.

If they are paying more than for the old ownership to move their desks out and paint over their parking spots, it is too much.

The previous owner installed an ACK-04 before I bought the airplane in 2018. It’s coming up on ten yeas of flawless operation. Tests good at every annual and got me a call from the SAR folks when I set it off accidentally inside a metal hangar for only a few seconds. I’d buy it again.

I just ran across the below link on FB which takes to a Lasar page to sign up for Mooney Assurance. Thoughts? Bronze = $200/mo Silver = $350/mo Gold = $500/mo 10 year Gold = $25,000 https://www.lasaraviation.com/

I fly with my oil door open for better cooling....

According to the G1000 Pilot’s Guide for the Mooney M20M/M20R/M20TN, that function is “N/A”: On the PC simulator, the cursor skips the “Position” field in the Display Units box. We don’t know if this is alterable in configuration mode. @PaulM or @Pmaxwell might know. Garmin provides this helpful warning: Warning: Only qualified maintenance personnel should perform this procedure. Improper configuration can lead to system errors.

AUX->System Setup->Display Units->Position

I do the same, but via email. I want the fees in writing.

SBM20-202.pdf

https://web.archive.org/web/20190207032823/http://donmaxwell.com/the-eight-second-ride-sb-m20-202/

In terms of Mooney unique parts, In the 20 years I've owned my airplane, I've needed a flap hinge, an intake boot (twice) and an interior door handle bracket. Got the bracket from salvage. Everything else was purchased directly from other sources or overhauled. At most, $2K in parts in 20 years. Putting money forward for parts would be insurance for something that might happen. Salvage parts seems like the future; that's why I like my F; they made a bunch; enough to support a salvage pipeline. But no one wants to discuss the salvage business and how to pump that up or organize it.

There are LOTS of parts on a Mooney that weren't made by Mooney... Rochester Dials - wing sight fuel gauges, Globe Motors - cowl flap motor, Voltage regulators, speed brakes, flap/trim indicators, potentiometers, luggage door handles, rod ends, and on and on... Most of these companies would deal direct to a manufacturer and all of them have a minimum parts order. With the proper capital a company could meet min orders for a variety of different parts and with the sale of said parts they could spring off the profit. Most of these parts have been previously sold by Lasar or Mooney for 2-3+ times what it cost to buy from OEM. However, Mooney doesn't have the capital laying around to invest in a bunch of parts. Lasar would like to have a bunch of parts, but that's a lot of money laying on the shelf and some may not have a quick turnover. A member funded subscription service where the owners foot the initial capital investment sounds similar to what's being offered. Of course that's all speculation. I've seen it posted multiple times on this forum that "if the existing Mooney owners all offered up "$X" that would be a sizeable amount to turn Mooney around." Sounds like this was born off that sentiment.

I'm based on KSBP, I didn't realize they limited transient parking time now, that's really frustrating. There have been a number of changes going on here and there's so much more big private traffic now (where the hell are all these gulfstreams and challengers coming from??), I have to assume that's why aci thinks they can charge on arm and a leg.

The cost of saving the company likely outweighs the decrease in value of the fleet. Let's say we can waive a magic wand and everyone in the fleet invest the appropriate amount of money in LASAR to "save the fleet", I'd still think it's a bad investment. We'd be better off waiting like sharks for the bankruptcy and taking the company then. I haven't seen anything from LASAR to lead me to believe they can competently accomplish what I'll call a merger. The current LASAR is not the old LASAR that many depended on and loved. A better plan would have been for Mooney to start factory annuals, paint jobs, etc. Get the business going and providing for itself; the facilities are there and sit unused. How hard would it have been to partner with a painter and make it a win/win? There were plenty of low cost solution to enhance and help the business instead of continuing to dig a financial hole.

Agree, experienced cloud surfing myself, fantastic… Thanks! -Don

Hmm, more like realism and ignoring direct market feedback from owners and potential customers sounds kinda dumb…amateur hour, frankly. No, it’s about running a business and turning a profit. I’m not, never have been, and very much doubt I will ever will be a stakeholder. Mooney has always had a pretty checkered business past that is not in alignment with my investment criteria I don’t believe that’s what he said. I read that he found Lasar’s approach pretty atrocious; I’d have to agree 100% with that assessment!

In addition to that I found that the trim piece around the hat rack opening in my plane was letting in a huge draft which wasn't appreciated by passengers in the winter. There was a gap between that and the plastic shell of the hat rack. I used some duct tape on the back side of the trim piece where it can't be seen to close that gap and the draft was almost eliminated. I didn't have CO issues from there, but something to consider.

My comment was sort of tongue in cheek. I hope I’m wrong, but what I see happening is the following: The parts section of the website will remain off-line to the general public. Parts distribution will be tightly controlled. Factory parts are going to be outrageously priced (think Bonanza parts from Textron). The Mooney Assurance Program will offer members direct to consumer purchasing through the parts portal with parts being discounted from egregious to merely outrageous.

It seems that this thread has degenerated into a discussion of whether or not to mandate CO detectors. In spite of that fact, I feel that I should continue to post my findings on this problem in an effort to see that someone in the future is helped by it. we flew it this morning after trying to stop what appeared to be potential CO leaks. A mechanic flew with me with the detector able to move it around and we discovered that the concentration was much higher in the backseat area. What’s on the ground I went to the back of the baggage area and found a gap in the bottom of the very rear baggage compartment panel. They were going to seal up that area and I will fly again Monday. I believe there is a good chance that this is where the problem is. I believe that it is getting in the tail cone and then forcing past that area at the back of the baggage compartment. I will report back as we learn more. Thanks for your comments and suggestions.

With all the "marketing " and hoopla and lack of explanation and transparency, this seems very similar to a pump and dump.

One would hope this is the case, but what a bizarre way to market this idea… There is literally no explanation of what you actually get for your contribution, shouldn’t that be clear before asking for 25k?

A few years ago I saw that I had apparently I flown to Europe or something like that, but I don’t remember it.

No need for jacks to open the belly panel. Our J numerous times the flaps wouldn't come up on the ground, unless you gave them a little bump with your hand. Our mechanic cleaned the contacts eventually and no problems in several years.

As has been stated here before, what are our options. Mooney has been for sale for some time and no one has stepped up. I was in the factory early July '25 and based on what I heard I was thinking the last days were very soon. The Lasar guys are taking a risk and I am hoping they are successful. We need a dependable parts supplier as well as new energy injected into this once great company. And we need some damn swag too. lol I've only owned my O3 for 4 years. I was led to believe Mooney was owned by a group of Mooney owners. It was all BS. Its owned 80% by an investor and 20% by the Chinese company. The communications in the last 4 years has been non existent. I've seen more communication from the Lasar team than I ever have from past owners. In my opinion, I know like belly buttons, we all have one, Mooney never financially succeeded in large part to not having any what its costs were, hence the multiple bankruptcies. I would love to see new birds rolling off the production line, but that's probably not in the cards. Personally I want to invest and help these guys succeed, be a part of the story. I have spoke to Brett and I like what I am hearing. Owning a Mooney is special fraternity of brothers and sisters who share a passion for flying faster.

I love the paint scheme!

Pleased to show my bird to you ;-)

Another technique for slowing down and staying within the confines of a small practice area is to add drag via steep turns. Cruise to the practice area, reduce power, make clearing turns as necessary, then roll in and put on some "G"s to slow down. The Commercial ACS standard for steep turns is "approximately" 50 degrees of bank, which is 1.5G of load factor assuming level flight. Salty old flight instructors will sometimes ask for commercial steep turns at "59 1/2 degrees" of bank, or about 2Gs. Anything in that range will slow you down pretty well through a 180- or 360-degree turn, and is an excellent demonstration of the drag associated with steep turns. I add the usual safety disclaimers here: clear for traffic before maneuvering, be mindful of the increase in stall speed with load factor, etc. But since the Commercial Certificate requires a greater degree of proficiency in steep turns anyway, it's not an unreasonable technique.

A few things to keep in mind, from the laws of physics... 1) Slow flight is typical of traffic pattern activities... 90kias or so... 2) 90 is a typical approach speed for IR flight. 3) 90 is usually above Stall speed with low bank angles and flaps at the T/O position... 4) There is a power setting that will maintain 90 and altitude at the same time... 5) You won't be able to cruise to the practice area and set the power setting for slowing down, it will take forever and you will be beyond the practice area quickly. 6) If you want to slow down quickly... remove the power completely while maintaining altitude. A very dynamic situation... trim, trim, trim. Adding configuration changes is like adding brakes... gear down, prop in, flaps down, speed brakes, right rudder, and/or crossed controls... 7) As you get to 90, on target altitude, add back the power setting you have for 90. Finish trimming for 90. 8) expect the power setting for 90, and maintaining altitude, is the same power setting you use approaching the traffic pattern. 9) NA planes use a number near 16”. Throttle fully out is less than 12". MP for a TC'd plane is pretty similar in the traffic pattern. 10) This activity is very much a multi-tasking activity. The faster you can scan instruments and adsorb the details, the better off you will be. 11) Energy Management 102... you are staying at a defined altitude. Too much power you go faster... too little power you go slower 12) The slower you go... more AOA will be needed . 13) More AOA... comes with large helpings of induced drag.... 14) More drag... requires higher MP to maintain altitude... 15) Having The Stall horn sounding... requires an AOA increase that is typical of an ASI below 65(?). 16) High AOAs With Power On to maintain altitude generates a fair amount of (? Add word here) tendency to turn left. 17) defending against the left turn tendency, Use the right rudder to keep the nose point towards a target or keep the ball centered. 18) it always helps to be flying slowly before reaching the practice area. No need to get there quickly to have to add so many changes to get slowed down, and configured properly. 19) The CPL is a lot about demonstrating all the skills of the plane. Speeding up, slowing down, configuration changes, and multi-tasking along the way.... all while maintaining altitude or Vs or something.... 20) Are you familiar with what adding 1” of MP does for your nicely trimmed plane? Adding an inch of MP usually starts a climb of about 100 fpm (generally). If you are on speed and have an unwanted 100fpm climb going.... remove an inch of Mp. 21) Taking out an inch of MP... does the same thing in reverse. 100fpm descent... 22) If your magic reference MP is 16”, and you are flying the traffic pattern level at 90kias... Abeam the numbers, you pull the throttle back 4”... and Check the VSI... it settles around a 400fpm descent... 23) Slow flight and stalls go together. Be real familiar with Stall speed charts, and effects of bank angle, WnB, and crossed controls... 24) Don't forget all the usual training things like clearing turns and the like... safe altitudes are important for this. 25) That would be the top 24 ideas I would be ready to discuss on the way to flying slowly... Keep in mind, this is from the memory of a PP. Not a CFI or CPL. I'm open to discussion... Best regards, -a-